What's the Latest MATRIX LP/CD Added to Your Pile? SQ, QS, RM, EV

[4-earredwonder]

Every so often during my journeys into thrifts an SQ Angel or QS Vox will turn up; I have quite a few of both labels. S 37406 is Itzhak Perlman and Pinchas Zukerman's DUETS FOR TWO VIOLINS, just the kind of background music for a hot, almost summer afternoon. These guys could play rings around each other for hours, I'd bet, but it's classical so a musician pretty much has to stick to what's written on the sheets.

ED

Ed, I REALLY wish one of the Classical labels like Pentatone or Dutton~Epoch would reissue some of those sumptious ANGEL SQ discs as QUAD SACDs. I have quite a few of them [used to be under $5 each when brand new] but I found the pressings somewhat subpar.

 

[surround.sound.enthusiast]

It's a pretty interesting curiosity, to see a label release a quad outside of their preferred format/system. Especially as I would guess that CD-4 and QS were probably bigger in Japan than SQ.
But, Japan is known for being unique both media and hardware wise. I mean, Pink Floyd's stuff was either SQ or 8-track for the rest of the world, yet is got released as QS in Japan, and here
are two releases that were already CD-4 but instead got released in SQ in Japan.

It sure keeps collecting interesting, even if we never get our hands on any of these rarities. Cataloging efforts like steelydave's keep the hobby fresh.

 

[bigbillquad]

Hi. All

Two 7" 45`s came today.

( Teichiku Records. QS FDM-1 -Brazil RainDrops Keep Fallin` On My Head :7" 45 )-
( CBS. SQ SONY 87003 -Young Japanese Pop Group Our Earth Is But One/ I Love You. Just You Four Leaves :7" 45 )-

 

[Soundfield]

I've already got a CBS SQ Test Disc, it's notionally used but in perfect condition, so I didn't really need another one but I saw this sealed example (which can go for silly money) on eBay and put in a token low bid (very much less than I paid for the first one) just for the hell of it and what do you know? - Yes I now also own this one:

Now with plenty of sources of test signals I really don't have any excuse (apart from the lovely summer weather here in the UK) for not building and testing the SQ decoder I've been thinking about making for years!

Another sealed one which should be rather more fun to actually listen to also arrived this week:

Although still sealed, rather annoyingly it is one of those that at some time in its life suffered the indignity of having a corner chopped off - I know it was some sort of bizarre stock control thing that US shops did for withdrawn items etc., but what really was the point of such mutilation (along with punching holes which may or may miss the disc!)? Did they also continue the practice into the CD era and try to slice the corners off the jewel boxes?!

 

[Snood]

You may notice from my Avatar that I've already got a CBS SQ Test Disc, its notionally used but in perfect condition, so I didn't really need another one but I saw this sealed example (which can go for silly money) on eBay and put in a token low bid (very much less than I paid for the first one) just for the hell of it and what do you know? - Yes I now also own this one:

View attachment 33359

View attachment 33360

Now with plenty of sources of test signals I really don't have any excuse (apart from the lovely summer weather here in the UK) for not building and testing the SQ decoder I've been thinking about making for years!

Another sealed one which should be rather more fun to actually listen to also arrived this week:


View attachment 33361

View attachment 33362

Although still sealed, rather annoyingly it is one of those that at some time in its life suffered the indignity of having a corner chopped off - I know it was some sort of bizarre stock control thing that US shops did for withdrawn items etc., but what really was the point of such mutilation (along with punching holes which may or may miss the disc!)? Did they also continue the practice into the CD era and try to slice the corners off the jewel boxes?!

Yes is the answer....they actually made cuts in the plastic case on the spine that would chew up the paperwork

 

[steelydave]

Although still sealed, rather annoyingly it is one of those that at some time in its life suffered the indignity of having a corner chopped off - I know it was some sort of bizarre stock control thing that US shops did for withdrawn items etc., but what really was the point of such mutilation (along with punching holes which may or may miss the disc!)? Did they also continue the practice into the CD era and try to slice the corners off the jewel boxes?!

These are (unsurprisingly) called "cut outs" and the corner chopping was done at the factory. The reason it was done is that once the corner was chopped, the label no longer had to pay any royalties to the artists/musicians featured on the album and could sell the album at a knockdown price as a result.

I have suspicions that some labels did this to albums even when they didn't really need to, simply because they could make more money selling no-royalty cutouts rather than full-price, full-royalty albums, even if the cutouts were only sold for $1 or $2 rather than $5.98 (or in the case of quad, $6.98). I recall reading a story about Sun Ra signing with ABC/Impulse! and that after they signed him, they printed up nearly a million copies of his new albums in the year or so he was with the label, and then they terminated his contract and cut-out all of those records, so he got nothing from their sale, where every copy sold was like found money for ABC.

It may be simply because I look at a lot more quad product than stereo, but there seems to be a disproportionate amount of quad product that's either been cut out, or has 'for promotional use only' stickers or stamps on it. Presumably it has to do with labels looking for ways to dump inventory that wasn't selling, but there are plenty of stories over the years about people at labels making extra cash by dumping cases of 'promotional' records to resellers and then pocketing some of the profits.

To answer your other question, yes, CD's are "cut out" too, but they don't chop the corner off (thank god), they drill in to the spine of the case (and usually through the end of the tray card) to indicate a cutout. I also have many quad 8-track tapes that were cutouts, and it looks like they used some kind of mini "hot poker" to brand a 'melt mark' (not quite a hole, but almost) in the spine of the tape.

 

[Soundfield]

These are (unsurprisingly) called "cut outs" and the corner chopping was done at the factory. The reason it was done is that once the corner was chopped, the label no longer had to pay any royalties to the artists/musicians featured on the album and could sell the album at a knockdown price as a result.

Thanks , I'd no idea it had anything to do with royalties. Although I'm not sure of the logic behind it - if you are still selling the work how does simply selling it in a damaged wrapper negate the royalty due, surely the intellectual property remained intact? Was this some specific legal loophole in the US?

 

[DuncanS]

Interesting. In the UK in the mid/late 70s we used to get lots of imported USA LPs with either a hole punched in a corner, or the whole corner cut-off, which as a student I bought quite a few of. I often got 2 brand new sealed LPs for the price of one, sometimes less than, the price of a UK release. I asked the record shop and they said that as damaged goods they attracted a lower rate of import duty.

 

[surround.sound.enthusiast]

You got a s-w-e-e-t deal on that SQ test LP, Soundfield. I missed out on the first auction, and contacted the seller when it looked like they re-listed the auction. It turns out they had three (!) unopened copies which all sold for under $60 each. I was watching but didn't fully commit (couldn't risk paying through the nose these days on the last copy).

As Snood, steelydave, and DuncanS all already answered, CD's either received and band saw cut across the jewel case spine or maybe a drill hole on the bar code. And the same thing was done with cassettes too. It's always a shame to find a record you want with a corner clipped off or a hole punch hole straight through. But when it comes to quads and some stereo albums, that won't stop me.

 

[Soundfield]

You got a s-w-e-e-t deal on that SQ test LP, Soundfield.

Yes, sorry if you missed out! I rarely seem to get a bargain in auctions but was lucky this time. Even with international shipping and import duty it cost me in sterling about half what I paid for the used one some years ago. I saw it came from a set of three - I wonder what the source was?

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Interesting. In the UK in the mid/late 70s we used to get lots of imported USA LPs with either a hole punched in a corner, or the whole corner cut-off, which as a student I bought quite a few of. I often got 2 brand new sealed LPs for the price of one, sometimes less than, the price of a UK release. I asked the record shop and they said that as damaged goods they attracted a lower rate of import duty.

Duncan,
Did you ever order discs from The Quadrophonic Record Center in London ?
I used to order the odd quad vinyl album from them in the late 70's . Unfortunately I didn't know about their existence until then........missed out on a lot of hard to find European quads by the time I went to them.

They came in handy when Sound Concepts in Illinois kinda stopped selling quads.


And as far as cutouts go a lot of small record shops here managed to glom onto some of them from time to time.
Also in the early eighties I found a few rare quad albums cutouts included , at Rather Ripped Records in California . They mostly carried stereo but listed the quads so it made it easy to do and they shipped worldwide me thinks.

Got my copy of Ray Charles -Genius Live QS album from them as an example.

 

[steelydave]

Thanks , I'd no idea it had anything to do with royalties. Although I'm not sure of the logic behind it - if you are still selling the work how does simply selling it in a damaged wrapper negate the royalty due, surely the intellectual property remained intact? Was this some specific legal loophole in the US?

I don't think it's only in the US, but you probably see more of them from there simply because US print runs were 10x (or more) larger than any other country simply because of the size of the market.

The damage caused by the 'cut out' isn't what reduces the price, the cut out is effectively to indicate that the LP (or whatever media) is a cut out being sold at a reduced price, for a couple of reasons. One is so that the retailers couldn't buy up cut-out stock and sell it at full price, and the other was so that all sales were final, cutouts couldn't be returned for refund since the covers were physically damaged.

It wasn't so much a legal loophole as something that's written in to recording contracts of artists. I probably shouldn't have spoken so equivocally and said that all artists get zero royalties from cut-outs, because it'll depend on the contract they signed, but when a record is cut-out it generally becomes a 'promotional item' and the artist gets paid way less for it, which can be anywhere from a little bit down to zero.

From what I understand as well, a lot of record contracts have a 'spoilage' clause in them, which basically holds back some of the money due the artist to account for records that are mis-pressed, damaged, returned, or otherwise unsellable. It wouldn't surprise me if some labels try/tried to get rid of records without paying the artist for them by cutting them out and then classifying the stock as spoiled. I may be wrong on this however as I can't find the original information, but it's up there rattling around in my head with a million other useless facts. It seems plausible at the very least.

 

[Circular Vibes]

I might be wrong, but my recollection from having worked in used record stores years ago was that deleted titles were drilled or punched with a hole, which meant cheaper prices, and corners being cut off were supposed to be given away for promotion, like record give aways at radio stations, or added to the record library. It was cheaper than printing promo stickers or separate labels and jackets. Capitol in the US in the 60's used a hole punch that said free in holes and Columbia went with the gold promo stamp in the 70's and 80's. I don't know how many times I came across an LP from Quality records here in Canada that the hole for delete was drilled so hard that the vinyl cracked. They were drilled through the label area so the disc was marked as well as the jacket. Some had 2 drill holes, though I don't recall what that might have meant.

 

[Soundfield]

I don't think it's only in the US, but you probably see more of them from there simply because US print runs were 10x (or more) larger than any other country simply because of the size of the market.

The damage caused by the 'cut out' isn't what reduces the price, the cut out is effectively to indicate that the LP (or whatever media) is a cut out being sold at a reduced price, for a couple of reasons. One is so that the retailers couldn't buy up cut-out stock and sell it at full price, and the other was so that all sales were final, cutouts couldn't be returned for refund since the covers were physically damaged.

It wasn't so much a legal loophole as something that's written in to recording contracts of artists. I probably shouldn't have spoken so equivocally and said that all artists get zero royalties from cut-outs, because it'll depend on the contract they signed, but when a record is cut-out it generally becomes a 'promotional item' and the artist gets paid way less for it, which can be anywhere from a little bit down to zero.

From what I understand as well, a lot of record contracts have a 'spoilage' clause in them, which basically holds back some of the money due the artist to account for records that are mis-pressed, damaged, returned, or otherwise unsellable. It wouldn't surprise me if some labels try/tried to get rid of records without paying the artist for them by cutting them out and then classifying the stock as spoiled. I may be wrong on this however as I can't find the original information, but it's up there rattling around in my head with a million other useless facts. It seems plausible at the very least.

Cheers, that's all fascinating stuff. I suspect there were similar practices in all countries for dealing with 'remaindered' stock but the actual methodology might have been different. I don't ever recall seeing any UK or European releases for retail sale in the UK that had any form of physical cut-out (in fact it wasn't until the dawn of eBay and I started buying stuff from the US that I was even aware of such vandalism!) - but plenty of promotional stickers (often several layers!). Mind you, my long defunct local record store was never one for selling anything at a discount and would have been very sniffy about having anything as vulgar as a 'promotional item' on its shelves - I had to go to London for such depravity!

 

[DuncanS]

Duncan,
Did you ever order discs from The Quadrophonic Record Center in London ?
I used to order the odd quad vinyl album from them in the late 70's . Unfortunately I didn't know about their existence until then........missed out on a lot of hard to find European quads by the time I went to them.

They came in handy when Sound Concepts in Illinois kinda stopped selling quads.


And as far as cutouts go a lot of small record shops here managed to glom onto some of them from time to time.
Also in the early eighties I found a few rare quad albums cutouts included , at Rather Ripped Records in California . They mostly carried stereo but listed the quads so it made it easy to do and they shipped worldwide me thinks.

Got my copy of Ray Charles -Genius Live QS album from them as an example.

Sadly I didn't know of its existence! I got mine from Spiller's records in Cardiff when I was at Uni. there, and from my local Record Shop back at home. Though my last SQ LP was bought from the Cardiff Virgin store, Mike Oldfield's "Exposed" live double for which I paid the princely sum of £4.99 (and yes the album still has the price label on it!).

 

[bigbillquad]

Hi. All

Another matrix to my pile.

( Crown. RM=QS GW-7060Q -The Sound Of Carpenters - Simon & Garfunkel )-

 

[fredblue]

I don't think it's only in the US, but you probably see more of them from there simply because US print runs were 10x (or more) larger than any other country simply because of the size of the market.

The damage caused by the 'cut out' isn't what reduces the price, the cut out is effectively to indicate that the LP (or whatever media) is a cut out being sold at a reduced price, for a couple of reasons. One is so that the retailers couldn't buy up cut-out stock and sell it at full price, and the other was so that all sales were final, cutouts couldn't be returned for refund since the covers were physically damaged.

It wasn't so much a legal loophole as something that's written in to recording contracts of artists. I probably shouldn't have spoken so equivocally and said that all artists get zero royalties from cut-outs, because it'll depend on the contract they signed, but when a record is cut-out it generally becomes a 'promotional item' and the artist gets paid way less for it, which can be anywhere from a little bit down to zero.

From what I understand as well, a lot of record contracts have a 'spoilage' clause in them, which basically holds back some of the money due the artist to account for records that are mis-pressed, damaged, returned, or otherwise unsellable. It wouldn't surprise me if some labels try/tried to get rid of records without paying the artist for them by cutting them out and then classifying the stock as spoiled. I may be wrong on this however as I can't find the original information, but it's up there rattling around in my head with a million other useless facts. It seems plausible at the very least.

interesting! i wonder if this is why there are so many cutouts of the Steely Dan QS Quad LPs (not that they didn't sell in the first place, as I thought might explain it) but something along the lines of the band had a clause in their contract or some kind of deal to get separate monies/royalties for each different release or version of an album and ABC decided to get around paying out by making them all cutouts?

 

[fizzywiggs41]

interesting! i wonder if this is why there are so many cutouts of the Steely Dan QS Quad LPs (not that they didn't sell in the first place, as I thought might explain it) but something along the lines of the band had a clause in their contract or some kind of deal to get separate monies/royalties for each different release or version of an album and ABC decided to get around paying out by making them all cutouts?

It's possible also that the financial woes of ABC Records hastened these discs to the delete/cutout bins of the record stores . I witnessed all 3 of the Dan's with large cuts in the upper right hand corner of still sealed product. I'm certain it did not affect the vinyl product but was somewhat of a blight on that quad album cover.

 

[bigbillquad]

Hi. All

Another couple more matrix LP`s. to add to my library.

( CBS. SQ SOCM 67 -Les Petits Chanteurs`a La Croix de Bois sings World Beloved Songs )-
( Tam. QS MX-0011~12 Screen Big Hits Double De Luxe Lost Horizon :2 LP set )-

 

[bigbillquad]

Hi. All

I forgot another matrix LP came the other day..

( Diatone. Mitsubishi QS NAS-330 -Diatone Demo LP )-