Why can't new equipment play old material

[barfle]

It's a little too easy to call out some of the gaslighting in tech nowadays. Computers with soldered in hard drives. New OS releases that blacklist older but fully compatible hardware in planned obsolescence moves. New copy protection gone wild schemes that tie music listening to require new hardware purchases to get at hidden decoding software. All artificial software spoofing and serious desperate behavior.

At the same time, the tech available nowadays is kind of amazing. And you can find used tech from the last 10-15 years for pennies on the dollar and do quite a lot! It's the golden age of audio right now and nothing short of it. 24 bit audio and fully discrete multichannel in full lossless original studio quality is happiness and light.

It's pretty fair to call out the scammers especially with the bar raised as high as it is now with tech, software, and audio quality and delivery. The defense of some of the worst case behavior and products is... special.

My big beef with Microsoft (which means small and limp) is that many of their “updates” remove drivers for installed equipment, and it’s a bitch trying to figure out exactly what’s missing.

 

[mandrix]

My big beef with Microsoft (which means small and limp) is that many of their “updates” remove drivers for installed equipment, and it’s a bitch trying to figure out exactly what’s missing.

I've not had drivers removed that I'm aware of, but for sure "updates", though they often bring security patches of software of their own making, cause problems.
This day and time, I believe MS tries to keep backward compatibility up to a point. But with all the gripes I have about MS, I can't fault them for the fact that one patch can cause problems. But I still don't like it. Most of the time they appear to be fixing all the problems related to keeping a lot of software functional, while first priority is patching security holes.

Thousands of lines of code could not be easy to police, or anticipate all future problems.
There's always Apple or Linux, neither of which I have any huge amount of experience with, but neither do they run the vast number of programs that Windows does.

But yeah, like I said, sometimes it seems like all software is written by kid genius's that don't understand the vast audience they are programming for.
Then there are all the aholes that spend all their time trying to bust everything so they can get access to your data. If I had them corralled in my back yard, well, it wouldn't be a pretty sight.

 

[jimfisheye]

There's just more noise to wade through now I suppose. There's always something to talk about having to avoid but my glass is still at least half full with everything computers. I feel like I hit a sweet spot in hindsight. 2009 Mac Pro and 2011 Macbook Pro. They both can still run the newest MacOS and they both support old versions quite a ways back. Spare parts are pennies on the dollar.

I can pay decently and build a DIY something that would genuinely get 2x my current CPU speed for single core. (When it gets down to single core nuts and bolts and multithreads are not an option.) Kind of want to because I miss upgrading! But everything works and then some. Maybe when I can hit 3x. Modern multicore scores are astronomical but some things like real time audio threads are single thread.

There are pros and cons but ultimately the programmable nature of the computer leads to a lot of bang for the buck. Cons being brain damage inducing tasks here and there.

About the only thing I've stumbled across where it feels like I'm missing out on something because there's only a Windows version is this HomerJAU audio tools package that looks to be the end all be all of various audio utilities.

 

[mandrix]

You always allude to things you don't like, seemingly anathema to some, favorably to others. Not meant with disrespect, but half the time I don't know wtf you think.
Please state what the noise is, for my edification? You did not reply to my last question...so it goes.
So never mind.
I'm out of this thread.

 

[jimfisheye]

I was responding to this line
"sometimes it seems like all software is written by kid genius's that don't understand the vast audience they are programming for.
Then there are all the aholes that spend all their time trying to bust everything so they can get access to your data."

I was agreeing with your assessment of some of the current online content and calling it "noise". I imagine that simply more people and content online than the early days means more of it is substandard. I was calling that the noise in the signal. I should know that analogies and sarcasm don't translate well in writing but there it is.

 

[barfle]

I've not had drivers removed that I'm aware of, but for sure "updates", though they often bring security patches of software of their own making, cause problems.
This day and time, I believe MS tries to keep backward compatibility up to a point. But with all the gripes I have about MS, I can't fault them for the fact that one patch can cause problems. But I still don't like it. Most of the time they appear to be fixing all the problems related to keeping a lot of software functional, while first priority is patching security holes.

Thousands of lines of code could not be easy to police, or anticipate all future problems.
There's always Apple or Linux, neither of which I have any huge amount of experience with, but neither do they run the vast number of programs that Windows does.

But yeah, like I said, sometimes it seems like all software is written by kid genius's that don't understand the vast audience they are programming for.
Then there are all the aholes that spend all their time trying to bust everything so they can get access to your data. If I had them corralled in my back yard, well, it wouldn't be a pretty sight.

To be sure, running an operating system and maintaining it is not a simple task, and as a retired engineer, I’m only too aware of how fixing A can break B permanently.

I have had a few updates from MSWin that removed some old drivers and rendered my tuner card inoperable. There are folks with more OS knowledge than me (sorry, I can’t keep up with everything) who can fix it, but I need to leave the box with them, and give them money to fix something that Microsoft broke.

 

[MidiMagic]

Did you keep the failed computer? What part failed? I have various spare parts - we could probably revive that machine.

It was the hard disk. The company that sold them went out of business. And I don't have the drivers that were on it that were downloaded when it was set up,

I bought a new XP computer, but haven't had time to set it up.

You must have been writing pretty specialised software then. All of the DOS command line utilities I wrote still run on Windows 10. One of these days Windows will stop executing 16 bit DOS binaries but for now they work.

I was a scientific lab engineer. Here is a sample of my creations.

• Prototype for a Proportional, Integrating, and Differentiating temperature control
• Measure the instantaneous and cumulative power consumption (6809 assembly)
• Backup procedures for Physical Plant Work 0rder Database
• Power meter display and load shed control for power consumption
• Chemical and sample inventory in Lotus 123
• Chemistry calculations
• Spectrograph calculations
• X-ray spectrometer goniometer control
• Gas chromatograph controller
• NUMZAP math learning game (used to help math-deficient pupils)
• Impedance cardiography with hematocrit
• Force plate dynamics
• Balance beam dynamics
• Portable stride analysis pedometer
• Treadmill goniometer
• Breathing analyzer and end tidal calculations
• Tutorials on the use of Excel addressing modes
• Flashing Yellow Arrows traffic signal tutorials
• Diverging Diamond Interchange tutorials
• Finite Mathematics tutorials
• Properties of non-ohmic lamps
• Relativity calculator
• Bignum calculator
• Fair sports calculator
• Light bulb comparisons
• Vote system compare
• Election simulator
• Traffic signal progression

We lost the use of our entire lab system when the computer managemert people demanded that everyone change from Windows 3.1 to Windows ME. They came in at night and replaced all of the computers. None of the lab equipment bus cards fit the new computers. Thousands of dollars of equipment rendered useless by Microsoft and managers.

 

[CPR]

My Sonos Arc does NOT play: DVD/A's, SACD 5.1, DTS CD's, or Blu-Ray audio discs
It does play, Dolby Digital 5.1, Dolby True HD/Atmos, & 2 CH CD.s, & of course Streaming
Sonos has no answer for me

 

[Owen Smith]

We lost the use of our entire lab system when the computer managemert people demanded that everyone change from Windows 3.1 to Windows ME.

Windows ME - they couldn't have made a worse choice to change to if they'd tried. Microsoft didn't even want to do ME, they got their arm twisted into it by the industry demanding one more 16 bit kernel based version of Windows. I can't make my mind up whether Microsoft did a crap job deliberately to ensure there would be no calls for another one after that, or they cared so little about it and under funded it that it came out crap by accident.

They came in at night and replaced all of the computers. None of the lab equipment bus cards fit the new computers. Thousands of dollars of equipment rendered useless by Microsoft and managers.

That's your own managers and IT department stupidity, not Microsoft's fault. They could have worked with you to work out what was possible, what new PCs had the right card slots (ISA slots I suspect) and whether there was any scope for running things on Windows 2000 or XP or on VMs.

But given all the direct driving of hardware you were probably doing, because on Windows 3.1 there often weren't any drivers or if there were they only worked on DOS/3.1, there may have been no upgrade possible. It's a problem for the entire industry, things move on and your old gear becomes unusable. Connecting everything over USB does appear to be a step forward on that front.

 

[Owen Smith]

My Sonos Arc does NOT play: DVD/A's, SACD 5.1, DTS CD's, or Blu-Ray audio discs
It does play, Dolby Digital 5.1, Dolby True HD/Atmos, & 2 CH CD.s, & of course Streaming
Sonos has no answer for me

What do you mean by Blu-Ray audio discs? Quite a few of those are in Dolby True HD so should play. It may be Blu Ray LPCM and DTS HD MA that won't play.

 

[par4ken]

We lost the use of our entire lab system when the computer managemert people demanded that everyone change from Windows 3.1 to Windows ME. They came in at night and replaced all of the computers. None of the lab equipment bus cards fit the new computers. Thousands of dollars of equipment rendered useless by Microsoft and managers.

The obvious answer to all of this is that you often need to keep your old equipment as you upgrade to new! You can't expect every old feature you still require will always be retained.

Our department was usually allowed to keep some old computers when new ones came out for that very reason. Management just had to make the case to the IT department. The old computers were no longer allowed to be connected to the internet, for obvious security reasons.

The same goes for audio as for computers! So the point of this entire thread is rather moot!

 

[Mr. Afternoon]

The same goes for audio as for computers! So the point of this entire thread is rather moot!

The point of this thread is NOT moot. It's good that we're all understand the motivations behind others' statements instead of brushing them off and getting annoyed. Talking about things is how stuff gets resolved, after all.

 

[furui_suterioo]

We should send Midi an Involve eval decoder so he can play QS and DPL with a modern device.

 

[barfle]

Hmmm, I don’t see anyone complaining that their latest Thorens gear won’t play their Edison cylinders. Or maybe those who own them have already ripped them to FLAC.

 

[jaybird100]

Hmmm, I don’t see anyone complaining that their latest Thorens gear won’t play their Edison cylinders. Or maybe those who own them have already ripped them to FLAC.

Well, my Technics 1200mk2 won't play Edison Diamond Discs. Does that count?

 

[barfle]

Well, my Technics 1200mk2 won't play Edison Diamond Discs. Does that count?

My Miracord 50H will.

 

[CPR]

What do you mean by Blu-Ray audio discs? Quite a few of those are in Dolby True HD so should play. It may be Blu Ray LPCM and DTS HD MA that won't play.

The Blu-Ray audio discs, are NOT in Dolby/True HD
Only the 4K/Blu-Ray video discs; to the best of my knowledge

 

[jaybird100]

My Miracord 50H will.

Doesn't much matter. I don't have any, anyway.

 

[jimfisheye]

The vinyl analogy would be more accurate if the analogy was creating a new version with a slightly different speed. (Not an increase like doubling tape speed to pursue more fidelity. More like a 1% just to be obnoxious for no performance reason but to create a compatibility issue.)

We weren't complaining about having to install a new bluray optical drive in the computer in 2011 and we weren't taken aback that the DVD drive wouldn't read bluray. We're complaining when some 3rd party takes the existing format and puts a lock on it and tried to charge for access.

It's just a weird new arena with software spoofing really gone wild. I have some sympathy for software and media makers too. Digital storage lead to being able to clone data 1:1 and led to no physical medium needed for a master file. Everyone sets up with these modular computer thingies and takes command of their media and everything else. Just swap in and out new parts and upgrades as they come up. And that led to not being able to sell software and media anymore!

So... planned obsolescence for the computers, encoding and cryptic twists in software, and tying media consumption to hardware purchases. It's all leveraged by software spoofing. Pretty desperate and dishonest IMHO. You can zoom out and forget anything you knew about computers being modular and programmable and how software works. Just look at the product as advertised and what it claims to do. When you grew up with the technology you just find yourself constantly spotting this and saying "Hey, that's not how any of this works! What're ya up to there?"

Yeah, it's easy to spot this stuff and call it out when you know. And there's way too much of this behavior right now! I still say this is a golden age of audio now and the glass is more than half full. You just have to pay a little attention and cut off the spoofing stuff when it comes up.

You had to calibrate tape decks or try to chase phono preamp calibration before you even got into futzing with the surround decoder tweaks to coax signals out of the older analog formats. Actual engineering chops were sometimes needed. All you need to do today is find the correct decoder software. And when someone like Dolby gets greedy and starts refusing to even sell it (what started this whole conversation), people tend to look for other solutions. Can't very well encourage that response but I can sure say I told ya so! I suspect it's really the case that they can't sell media anymore and this was the only choice anyone could come up with.

Again though, we win this one in the end. We now have an extension to surround in the form of 7.1.4 12 ch mixes and that is never going away. I give the current grifting a couple more years before someone "liberates" the Atmos decoder and there are a wave of pissed off consumers stuck with crippled AV receivers that can only take a 12ch input via an encoded Dolby signal over HDMI.

There are examples in the past if anyone wants to go down a rabbit hole on youtube. Multiple formats for vinyl with intentional competition by altering the design just enough to make products not cross comparable. There was an early cassette that had 1/8" bigger cartridge. This was riskier when you had to make actual physical products. Now with everything software controlled and micro computer design you can program it to behave any way you want to and create artificial spoofing with software. Apple can blank out certain controls based on a subscription service. Sounds fair enough. Or they can send out a software or firmware update that they wrote to detect if a 3rd party part they just found out about was installed on a device you already purchased and program it to disable some features if it has. Still sound fair? If not, you still have plenty of choices but you might have to poke at a few things.

One thing never seems to change that gets taken advantage over and over. Alert someone that someone ripped them off and they respond by getting mad at you!

 

[Owen Smith]

The Blu-Ray audio discs, are NOT in Dolby/True HD

I have a couple of audio only Blu Rays that are in Dolby True HD. There's no reason they can't be, though I agree most are in either DTS HD MA or LPCM.