Windows 11 is out today. Is there any reason for QQers to upgrade from Windows 10?

[salsdali]

I am employed as a computer programmer and do some work in embedded security, yet even I'm going to have to look up what TPM stands for. It's obviously not a well known acronym, if it were I'd know it given what I work on.

I'm just an average Joe and even I have heard of TPM, even though I have no idea what it actually is

 

[Owen Smith]

I'm just an average Joe and even I have heard of TPM, even though I have no idea what it actually is

Having looked it up, it is a bunch of embedded crypto hardware for generation and holding of encryption keys, encrypting/decrypting data, and generating digital signatures and hashes of various types over data. Exactly the sort of hardware the embedded systems I work on have had for the last 15 years. Except we don't have a trendy but ultimately meaningless acronym for it. Either you know what TPM means or you don't, it's not the sort of thing you can figure out logically.

And let me say, TPM is not as much about security as claimed. Sure it does some of that, but what it really does very well is to check that the software you are using is a legitimate licenced copy ie. have you paid for it. This is much more about ensuring revenue streams in a future where everything has a recurring licence fee than it is about keeping users safe.

 

[madship]

good to know that you haven't drank that tech BS koolaid

This has nothing to do with "koolaid." I've been an Apple used since high school in the 80s and Windows user since my first non-retail job in the 90s. I consider myself comfortable with both and pretty much agnostic to them.

I just assume that nothing I buy is going to last forever, some devices just have longer than others. Unfortunately, the higher the technology level. the shorter the useful lifespan.

I'm not complaining that the receiver I bought 15 yeas ago doesn't support Atmos, I'm looking at options for upgrading. I'm not complaining that room I built 7 years ago is 4-7 speakers short of supporting Atmos. I'm looking at options for upgrading. In the end I may not upgrade and the technology will pass me by. But that is my choice.

The example above is actually contrary, since the bigger stumbling block is the more mundane issue of speakers and wire.

 

[salsdali]

Unfortunately, the higher the technology level. the shorter the useful lifespan.

my point was that "Planned Obsolescence" isn't "unfortunate", it's "planned" meaning it has intent.

IOW it doesn't "have" to be this way just because it's technology

 

[mandrix]

So my main pc has a Z590 mobo and a 10th generation intel, no problems there for Win 11, has the TPM v2 built into mobo.

My secondary rig is a 6th generation 6700K on a high end Asus mobo. When all the hubbub started I ordered a TPM module for it (still waiting on it)
only to eventually find out MS won't support it anyway. But I actually already installed Win 11 on it a while back from the Dev builds, ran it about a week I think and then went back to 10. I didn't install much legacy software, but it ran fine.
Since I keep backups using Macrium free edition it's simple to go backwards after trying something out. I just clone the entire C: drive to a non OS drive and restoring it is just a reboot and maybe 15 minutes with Macrium on a USB stick.

Already have the "official" Windows 11 iso, downloaded with the MS Win 11 media creation tool today and burned to a DVD. At some point I'll get itchy and install on main rig and see if any legacy software that's made it this far is gonna quit on me. I already gave up the DTS-MAS encoder (but can run it through a virtual machine) but I still want my DVDA authoring stuff to keep working and that will be the break point unless I just move it all to the secondary machine and keep it all on Win 10.

The other two pc's will just stay on Windows 10 Home until they quit or Win 10 stops being supported, a Z77 rig I built for my wife and the HTPC running a little Z68 micro board/i3.

I'm actually more pissed that AMD dropped support for my 390x video card, and my trip 7950's. Still using the 390x on main rig, finally boxed the 7950's up and in the closet and replaced with a tiny 1050TI on secondary rig.

 

[jaybird100]

Don't forget 2000!

It'll probably be 12, but will they skip 13?

 

[par4ken]

Not again, just getting used to Windows 10, even then I set it up to be more like Windows 7. I have one computer that I have both Win 7 and 10 on, some applications don't work on 10. I'm also going to have to pull out one of my old computers to use with XP. Every time they come out with a new operating system something doesn't work anymore. Security is not a concern if the old computer is used simply run a few of your old programs, usually it doesn't even have to connect to the internet.

 

[Owen Smith]

I still remember Microsoft saying Windows 10 was it, they wouldn't ever change the major version number again. So much for that.

 

[mlrocker]

the time to upgrade is usually when the support for what you have is discontinued

 

[mkt]

one view
https://www.fsf.org/news/lifes-better-together-when-you-avoid-windows-11

 

[skywaveTDR]

The stupid thing about Windows is that they upgrade the OS but then many of your working hardware drivers stop working and there is no fixing it- They are in cahoots with hardware makers. The only way I upgrade a windows is when it is given to me for free which is the right price for their sloppy software always guaranteed to have lots of bugs in it. I may wait until windows 20 when they figure out that people are going to keep their old hardware- I might have to put XP on my laptop to get the wi fi to work again yet with Ubunto it worked as soon as I installed it. Why can't the idiots at MS do at least as good as the Ubunto people?

 

[skywaveTDR]

Who needs support? By the time the OS gets to me there are already many versions that are being perfected while the one they call on my computer is old, I don't have any problems with it at all. I think I went from XP to Wind 7. They also keep moving settings around which only aggravates the users- maybe that is why you need support.

 

[MidiMagic]

Planned obsolescence should be illegal.

 

[ArmyOfQuad]

If only it were as simple as that. But these things aren't straightforward cases of planned obsolescence. I know I was quite upset when hardware stopped working for me when upgrading from XP to 7, the biggest challenge being that I had gone from a 32 bit OS to a 64 bit one. That upgrade caused me to lose functionality of my HP flatbed scanner. The thought of having to replace something that was still fully functional with a new version of essentially the same thing did make me quite angry. I exchanged several correspondences with HP over it, but they flat out refused to provide any updated drivers for a product that they no longer made, sold, or supported. I couldn't exactly blame HP for the loss of functionality - it was Microsoft that put out a new OS that no longer worked with existing drivers, and wasn't capable of working with existing drivers. And there were benefits of upgrading from XP to 7, and 32 to 64. Anytime I had something that stopped working in Windows, I'd rant about the poor backwards compatibility - but I have an antagonistic programmer friend that always loves to dispute me any chance he gets, and has made the points to me that perhaps Windows is one of the most backwards compatible things we have with the amount of old software that can still be made to work in it, and also defended HP for not wanting to invest the money and time into having a team develop a new set of drivers for hardware they no longer manufacture and support - there was nothing for them to gain from it. Of course, I was of the position that there was incentive for HP to not provide updates that they may very well be capable of doing, in that it encourages replacing things that may not need replacing, and that they ought to provide support for their paying customers, rather than leave them with a non functioning device when upgrading.

As much as I hate how easily things go obsolete in a way that often puts people in the position of needing to replace fully functional still working hardware with new hardware that does the exact same thing, I begrudgingly have to understand the other side of it as well.

Now then - things like time bombs in paid software that didn't have a limited time period on the license agreement is pretty straightforward, and should be illegal. I'm looking at you, DTS. At least it's easy to turn back the clock on my virtual XP machine.

My flatbed scanner story did have a happy ending, though. I found a piece of software called VueScan, specifically designed to work with old scanners that do not have current drivers. For $30, my scanner works like a charm - and was something I was rather happy to pay after years of fighting with virtualbox not liking to play nice with USB. It wasn't free, but it was a lot cheaper than a brand new scanner, and perhaps a fair compromise.

 

[Imbobman]

Who needs support? By the time the OS gets to me there are already many versions that are being perfected while the one they call on my computer is old, I don't have any problems with it at all. I think I went from XP to Wind 7. They also keep moving settings around which only aggravates the users- maybe that is why you need support.

I'm still using XP. Works fine except it limits me on my browser choices. That can be a bit of a hassle..
I do most of my important stuff online with my smart phone...
Like right now here at QQ

 

[quicksrt]

I have two machines running Win XP Pro SP3. Just tonight I tried to upload some pictures from my Canon 20D DLSR. Win 10 wanted nothing to do with my camera, not accepting the drivers from disc or DL. I plugged it into my XP machine and up came the camera/scanner wizard. and asked me what I'd like to do? And I selected the get photos box.

I had a Win 7 or 8 box going but it died not long ago. Anyway, Windows does not always ask you if you want an update, it simply gets it demands you load it and restart before moving forward. I'm not sure it can be kept turned off. It turns itself back on if you try.

So anyway, I like my two XP computers and hope they continue for many years with the two video cameras, one still camera, and two flatbed scanners all need the XP OS to run. I'm not kidding either, I actually have this old gear the I love. Especially for the scanners, I have a letter size and a LP cover size, and still have much use for them going forward.

If only it were as simple as that. But these things aren't straightforward cases of planned obsolescence. I know I was quite upset when hardware stopped working for me when upgrading from XP to 7, the biggest challenge being that I had gone from a 32 bit OS to a 64 bit one. That upgrade caused me to lose functionality of my HP flatbed scanner. The thought of having to replace something that was still fully functional with a new version of essentially the same thing did make me quite angry. I exchanged several correspondences with HP over it, but they flat out refused to provide any updated drivers for a product that they no longer made, sold, or supported. I couldn't exactly blame HP for the loss of functionality - it was Microsoft that put out a new OS that no longer worked with existing drivers, and wasn't capable of working with existing drivers. And there were benefits of upgrading from XP to 7, and 32 to 64. Anytime I had something that stopped working in Windows, I'd rant about the poor backwards compatibility - but I have an antagonistic programmer friend that always loves to dispute me any chance he gets, and has made the points to me that perhaps Windows is one of the most backwards compatible things we have with the amount of old software that can still be made to work in it, and also defended HP for not wanting to invest the money and time into having a team develop a new set of drivers for hardware they no longer manufacture and support - there was nothing for them to gain from it. Of course, I was of the position that there was incentive for HP to not provide updates that they may very well be capable of doing, in that it encourages replacing things that may not need replacing, and that they ought to provide support for their paying customers, rather than leave them with a non functioning device when upgrading.

As much as I hate how easily things go obsolete in a way that often puts people in the position of needing to replace fully functional still working hardware with new hardware that does the exact same thing, I begrudgingly have to understand the other side of it as well.

Now then - things like time bombs in paid software that didn't have a limited time period on the license agreement is pretty straightforward, and should be illegal. I'm looking at you, DTS. At least it's easy to turn back the clock on my virtual XP machine.

My flatbed scanner story did have a happy ending, though. I found a piece of software called VueScan, specifically designed to work with old scanners that do not have current drivers. For $30, my scanner works like a charm - and was something I was rather happy to pay after years of fighting with virtualbox not liking to play nice with USB. It wasn't free, but it was a lot cheaper than a brand new scanner, and perhaps a fair compromise.

NO reason HP could not have written that new driver that VueScan did. HP simply did not want that scanner to work any more, and MS did not want us using old OS any more. They are all in cahoots to get us moving onto new computers, new hardware, and new software. New income for them.

Thankfully I have a knack for old Dell computers, and I have a nice Win XP w/ SP3 installation disc that always works.

 

[@gpoly]

Before anyone gets too excited about Windows 11, run Windows 10 update manually. It gives you a tool to check to see if your PC/Laptop is capable/compatible. I've got 4 not so new (but not old) i7's scattered around the house. The newest running in my listening room for my FLACs/DSFs. NONE of my PC's are compatible.

 

[Owen Smith]

Why should HP spend money writing a new driver when they are going to get zero return on that money? From HP's point of view it is Microsoft's fault for making the old driver incompatible.

 

[Sal1950]

Well I guess I'm totally out of luck with Doz11 for sure.
I built my box in 2008 during the transition from the Intel Core2 to the I? processors. I was able to buy a TOTL Core2 Quad processor, (I like that name) Gigabyte motherboard, etc; for half or less of the price they were 6 months before, a monster hot rod in it's day. Since then it's been upgraded to 6+ TB of onboard SSD storage, a video card that has HDMI out, USB3 card, more. So far she keeps chugglin along without issue.
But then I've been running PCLinuxOS as my main OS for close to 20 years now. I do have a Doz10 partition for running a few Win only apps where I boot once a week to do my chores and then go take a shower. LOL
After looking at a few photos of the 11 desktop, it does look as it's designed around touchscreen use. That's something I doubt I'll ever have a use for, I've hated the Doz menu structure since the change to 7, XP was still my all time favorite of their OS's. Have never understood the reasoning around that menu, most all Linux OS's I'm familiar with still use the cascading menu style. Since Linux OS are built by users, they build what they like and find the most intuitive. Not some "reinvent the wheel" genius that wants to shove his new baby down everyone throats and prove to the bosses he's smarter than all before him and deserves his last-next promotion - raise.
Have fun Windoz world, I can just hear the online crying now,
"I updated to 11 and now my box is completely hammered, I lost all my data, my wife left me, dog ran away and the bird died."
Good material for a Country song. LOL

 

[jimfisheye]

Some of the defense of planned obsolescence... I should start selling bridges or something.

I suppose giving the benefit of doubt you could say that products like the post-Jobs Apple stuff, for example, are inefficient and wasteful with programmed in end of life, programmed in forced incompatibility, programmed in locking out of swapping or repairing any parts, etc. So you pay for that and get what you get. Maybe there are use cases where it still feels like a good deal?

I can't help but think that this only works when the mark doesn't realize what's going on. Humans pick the bigger pile of stuff or the better pile of stuff by nature.

I poked my head in a couple Windows 11 threads on some audio forums just to see what was up with Windows now with Apple crashing and burning so hard. Could a scene change actually be coming? It looks like Microsoft are literally copying the worst practices that the post-Jobs Apple is up to right now!

Linux is coming but right now OSX is still doing the "just works" thing and still runs all the software. I have a 12 core 3.46GHz i7 Mac Pro with 96GB ram that's still overpowered for audio. The tower has 4 3.5 drive bays and 2 5.5 bays. Year 11 and many left to go! What the heck kind of "upgrade" would even make sense? Call me when we have new CPUs with optical connections and a new computer can run a real holodeck or something!

Clone your system drives and save your installer files folks! This should be the first thing anyone learns in computer 101. Your OS feels like it's someone else's computer until you can install it at will and fling OS clones around at will.