The Who - Who’s Next SDE series no. 30 (January 17th, 2025)

[Owen Smith]

On a 5.1 system, the dedicated 5.1 mix is definitely preferable as a listening experience. Unfortunately with the standalone disc, you'll need to increase the volume from "The Song Is Over" onwards. The boxset version doesn't have this issue and is uniform throughout.

I get to choose whether I just play the True HD 7.1 or actually decode the Atmos and render it to 5.0. The results are not always the same, though I'd argue they should be.

 

[scooob]

I received the SDE standalone Blu-ray a few days ago, and listened for the first time tonight (I never bought the ridiculously overpriced big box). I have a 5.1 system, and I enjoyed the 5.1 mix, although it's a notch or three below much of Wilson's other work - Fragile (from the big box that I recently bought during Rhino's 40% off sale) comes to mind, since the 5.1 mix on that sounds amazing to me on my system.

What I'm very disappointed in though from the Who's Next Blu-ray is how crunched the stereo mixes are, with way too much limiting. I ripped them all, to put them on my phone for car and headphone listening, and it looks like Wilson didn't have control over the mastering, since I know he favors putting his mixes out flat. These are very compressed, especially the original mix of the main album. I would have hoped for better from a SDE release, frankly. I'll probably stick to the 1995 remix/remaster CD release for stereo listening.

As I've delved further into the stereo tracks, I found that the instrumentals are much more dynamic! If only all the stereo mixes had been mastered this way. This is pure conjecture, but I wonder if SW had more say over the mastering of the instrumental tracks, since they weren't on the big box and are newly released on the SDE standalone disk. Maybe it wasn't practical / affordable to go back and remaster the previously released stereo Blu-ray tracks, for this very limited edition. But as enjoyable as these instrumental mixes are sonically, after a couple listens I just want to hear some vocals!

And if it sounds like I'm just spewing sour grapes, let me say that I'm very glad I bought the standalone Blu-ray, and that Paul & company are continuing to make these releases happen. I hope they're making enough money from them to keep the series going for a long time.

 

[JulesRules]

Who's Next has always had a bit of a dynamic limiting going on. The Wilson stereo mixes are between DR8 and DR10, CD masterings from 1986 (!) are at that level or slightly higher, but not as high as you'd expect from an album mastered prior to the loudness wars:

https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/153632

https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/178160

https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/163865

 

[scooob]

Who's Next has always had a bit of a dynamic limiting going on. The Wilson stereo mixes are between DR8 and DR10, CD masterings from 1986 (!) are at that level or slightly higher, but not as high as you'd expect from an album mastered prior to the loudness wars:

https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/153632

https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/178160

https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/163865

The versions in your second and third links seem to contradict each other... both are listed as coming from the Steve Hoffman remaster, but the second is more dynamic, 11 compared to 9. That site is crowd sourced, right? Maybe the date and/or origin on some entries aren't fully accurate?

In any case, these SDE releases have the opportunity to call a truce in the loudness wars, and use flat or near-flat masterings of new mixes. It seems to be what Michael Dutton does in the stereo layers of his quad SACDs, at least in the small pile of Dutton Vocalion discs I own.

 

[Bobby Martini]

So are you saying the Atmos mix is the one to listen to, even on a 5.0 system?

The one to listen to is the one you prefer. Trust your ears

 

[Tres Discrete]

The one to listen to is the one you prefer. Trust your ears

Good point

 

[fetchmybeer]

Lots of complaints here for a classic album given the SW treatment with a ton of extras. Really, you're getting a double album for the price with all the bonus tracks.

I think it sounds great. Even the "fake" upmix made through Penteo sounds pretty good. I wouldn't notice it is an upmix through just casual listening.

Baba O'Riley is for me the highlight, and it's a shame it's the first song. But I really like the panning on the synth, and the bite/attack of the guitars. The separation of the tracks makes it easier to focus on the absolute insanity of Keith's drumming too. I don't think he could go more than two measures without a fill.

I need to listen to the original of Won't Get Fooled Again because I never noticed those clap sounds before.

 

[Victor Bisio]

So, after reading through all of this, since I already had the big box set, I passed on the the stand-alone SDE Blu-ray. For me personally, I think I made the right decision. As far as I can tell, aside from some new instrumental versions that I would rarely (if ever) listen to, there is nothing to see here. If, however, you don't have the box, then this is a must buy, especially if you are a fan of the album, which IMO, is one of The Who's best.

I have the Blu-ray from the box set only & I purchased this. I didn't need or want the box set extras.

 

[Atomic Punk]

Lots of complaints here for a classic album given the SW treatment with a ton of extras. Really, you're getting a double album for the price with all the bonus tracks.

I think it sounds great. Even the "fake" upmix made through Penteo sounds pretty good. I wouldn't notice it is an upmix through just casual listening.

Baba O'Riley is for me the highlight, and it's a shame it's the first song. But I really like the panning on the synth, and the bite/attack of the guitars. The separation of the tracks makes it easier to focus on the absolute insanity of Keith's drumming too. I don't think he could go more than two measures without a fill.

I need to listen to the original of Won't Get Fooled Again because I never noticed those clap sounds before.

ha yeah, same thoughts for me. i was also wondering if anyone had heard the clapping before because i haven't.

another comment i would add regarding Bargain. the vocals sound a little different, a little echoey and slightly recessed. and a disappointment for me is how low in the mix the synthesizer is in the middle of the song right after the vocal '
And I'm lookin' for that free ride to me
I'm lookin' for you...'. to me, that's a highlight of the song and it should be much more prominent (dare i say louder) in the mix.
overall, it sounds very good and i'm listening to the 5.1 mix

 

[Ephi82]

I had been listening to the Apple streaming of Who’s Next and it did not seem that great of a surround mix but I still ordered the the SDE single Blu ray. First thing I noticed was how much better SQ the Blu ray Atmos mix was than the Apple streaming Atmos mix. I had not previously found any of my blu ray Atmos mixes of other artists had such a wide SQ difference than the Apple Music Spatial music version. I wonder how many other QQ members noticed this. Anyways, happy I ordered this blu ray of Who’s Next.

Did you buy a standalone blue ray or the whole box? How much did it cost you?

 

[JulesRules]

The versions in your second and third links seem to contradict each other... both are listed as coming from the Steve Hoffman remaster, but the second is more dynamic, 11 compared to 9. That site is crowd sourced, right? Maybe the date and/or origin on some entries aren't fully accurate?

The second link has an explanation in the notes:

Per Hoffman, this version [the lower DR one] was mastered from the original tape, while the other original mix mastering was done from an EQ'd dub tape prepared by the Mastering Lab.

 

[Dynamic Editor]

another comment i would add regarding Bargain. the vocals sound a little different, a little echoey and slightly recessed. and a disappointment for me is how low in the mix the synthesizer is in the middle of the song right after the vocal '

I was listening to the Atmos mix of Bargain and it sounded like everything was planned behind me. Anyone else have that experience? It was really odd. (Yes, I know it's an upmix.)

 

[SharpKnight]

Lots of complaints here for a classic album given the SW treatment with a ton of extras. Really, you're getting a double album for the price with all the bonus tracks.

I think it sounds great. Even the "fake" upmix made through Penteo sounds pretty good. I wouldn't notice it is an upmix through just casual listening.

Baba O'Riley is for me the highlight, and it's a shame it's the first song. But I really like the panning on the synth, and the bite/attack of the guitars. The separation of the tracks makes it easier to focus on the absolute insanity of Keith's drumming too. I don't think he could go more than two measures without a fill.

I need to listen to the original of Won't Get Fooled Again because I never noticed those clap sounds before.

How much better is Penteo at creating a surround mix? Is it AI based or does it take human decisions as to how the recording is going to sound? How different is it compared to Dolby Pro Logic II (Dolby Surround) algorithm?

 

[scooob]

The second link has an explanation in the notes:

Per Hoffman, this version [the lower DR one] was mastered from the original tape, while the other original mix mastering was done from an EQ'd dub tape prepared by the Mastering Lab.

Okay. I saw that comment last night, and took it as a reference to a previous release that someone else had mastered, but I think you're right.

The point remains that the stereo remixes on the SDE release could have been mastered more dynamically. I will now stop beating a dead horse, and repeat that overall I'm happy with the SDE disk and I'm very glad it came out and that I sprang for it when it was still available. The 5.1 mix, while not perfect, is a fun way to re-hear this album that has been ingrained in my grey matter since I was a teenager.

 

[Todd 987]

I accidentally ordered two copies. Selling the sealed copy. I think with shipping it was 35-40 bucks, $37.00 includes shipping in continental USA.