The Who - Who’s Next SDE series no. 30 (January 17th, 2025)

[ssully]

it's already sold out at SDE. Bluray.com seems to says that it's 'exclusive to SDE until Nov 1 2025'

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Who-Whos-Next-Blu-ray/376843/

I can stream the Atmos though.

 

[ssully]

Got mine yesterday. Only had a cursory listen. Sounds good so far. I don't know why but I've got this weird urge to watch CSI Miami and New York now

Will report back and score once I've had a proper listen.

One question I do have for those of you more knowledgeable than I is....

Why do a penteo mix for 'Bargain' when the demixing software used on Revolver is available and capable of creating a proper surround mix????

Has Peter Jackson made it freely available?

 

[fredblue]

There is already a separate discussion thread for the SDE standalone release: https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/threads/the-who-who’s-next-sde-series-no-30-january-17th-2025.36696/page-12#post-829537

It wouldn't make sense to create a second poll thread as the content of both Blu-Ray discs is the same (original stereo + remixed stereo/5.1/Atmos of main album & bonus tracks).

oh! i thought the instrumentals were unique to the standalone SDE BD?

edit: not that i'd consider that'd make it worthy of a separate QQ Poll..!

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Got mine yesterday. Only had a cursory listen. Sounds good so far. I don't know why but I've got this weird urge to watch CSI Miami and New York now

Will report back and score once I've had a proper listen.

One question I do have for those of you more knowledgeable than I is....

Why do a penteo mix for 'Bargain' when the demixing software used on Revolver is available and capable of creating a proper surround mix????

After splitting out the Center and Rear channels on SW's Penteo (or whatever it is) up-mix, I wasn't too impressed. If you listen to the rears isolated they sound fairly muddied-up to me; seems he could have done better given he has access to real source material. The center sounds like quite a bit of what's in the Fronts mixed together, more like what a typical 5.1 Penteo mix sounds like, to me anyway. Maybe he just didn't want to spend the time (or they the money) for him to dig deeper into the up-mix; however doesn't appear too many here even notice such things, also, as taken as a whole, it doesn't sound that bad. I'd love to hear Wilson's thoughts and work flow on that up-mix! Wouldn't mind others here to check this out and report back on their findings.

 

[JulesRules]

I know they did use some kind of demixing for "The Song is Over", but that was with most of the instruments available as separate tracks. Taking apart a finished production might've been seen as too daunting at that point.

 

[key_wiz]

Just arrived!

 

[mediumwave13]

On the box set Blu-Ray, both the remixed stereo and 5.1 seem to have had some limiting applied (probably by Astley as you suggest) whereas the Atmos was untouched. Is the 5.1 audio any different on the standalone?

I've just had a look, the 5.1 is different too! The limiting is applied as it was in the box set except on My Wife! I'll have to do a proper side-by-side mix comparison, but it could potentially mean a tweaked mix for My Wife only!

Further, the 5.1 mixes of Baba O'Reilly through to the "new" My Wife have all been normalised to 0dB, whilst the remainder of the material has been normalised to -6dB to match the Atmos levels, making for a very uneven listen at the halfway point.

The bonus tracks appear the same on both discs.

 

[MixerRog]

Agreed. This was a very unfortunate decision.

I also agree. Many AI stem separation programs can now provide much better surround results than Penteo IMO. I think the 5.1 surround mix I did in 2023 of "Bargain" has better surround than this new version IMO.

Agreed. This was a very unfortunate decision.

I agree also about "Bargain". There are several AI stem separation programs that will give better results now than Penteo can provide IMO. Penteo is a fast way to get surround but not the best way anymore.

The "Mal" system used for the Beatles de-mixing is just an AI system trained mainly with the Beatles voices & instruments so it will give possibly only slightly better results than the outstanding latest "BS Roformer" AI vocal separation program IMO.

Rog

 

[marpow]

Sorry for question I should know.
I have the Who's Next Box Set and now SDE #30 has arrived.
Is the ONLY difference in SDE#30 the addition to having SW Remix Instrumental tracks?

 

[jtiner]

/SNIP/
Further, the 5.1 mixes of Baba O'Reilly through to the "new" My Wife have all been normalised to 0dB, whilst the remainder of the material has been normalised to -6dB to match the Atmos levels, making for a very uneven listen at the halfway point.

I received my disc on the 15th and pulled the stereo tracks with Audiomuxer and noticed the -6dB normalization. It made me wonder if I'd missed something. I haven't checked any of the multi channel material.

 

[JediJoker]

Sorry for question I should know.
I have the Who's Next Box Set and now SDE #30 has arrived.
Is the ONLY difference in SDE#30 the addition to having SW Remix Instrumental tracks?

Mostly. Wilson's stereo and 5.1 mixes of "My Wife" also appear to be unmastered on the standalone disc.

 

[SharpKnight]

Wait are we saying that the Blu-Ray in the $300 set is different than the standalone Blu-Ray? The content as well as the surround mixes?

 

[PurpleMoustache]

Wait are we saying that the Blu-Ray in the $300 set is different than the standalone Blu-Ray? The content as well as the surround mixes?

As far as I can tell (mine is out for delivery, so not in my hands, nor do I have the box) its about 80% the same as the disc included in the $300 set with the new inclusion of instrumental stereo versions of every track except Bargain, and mastering on the 5.1 mix only is different for a handful of tracks. Otherwise the same

 

[ssully]

After splitting out the Center and Rear channels on SW's Penteo (or whatever it is) up-mix, I wasn't too impressed. If you listen to the rears isolated they sound fairly muddied-up to me; seems he could have done better given he has access to real source material. The center sounds like quite a bit of what's in the Fronts mixed together, more like what a typical 5.1 Penteo mix sounds like, to me anyway. Maybe he just didn't want to spend the time (or they the money) for him to dig deeper into the up-mix; however doesn't appear too many here even notice such things, also, as taken as a whole, it doesn't sound that bad. I'd love to hear Wilson's thoughts and work flow on that up-mix! Wouldn't mind others here to check this out and report back on their findings.

Listening to isolated channels isn't a great way to evaluate. You don't hear them that way in a mix, there are psychoacoustics involved. Stuff that sounds bad in isolation can be innocuous within the full surround mix.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Listening to isolated channels isn't a great way to evaluate. You don't hear them that way in a mix, there are psychoacoustics involved. Stuff that sounds bad in isolation can be innocuous within the full surround mix.

that's true, the mix hides much of that psychoacousticly (is that even a word ); that's why I said "taken as a whole, it doesn't sound that bad"

 

[SharpKnight]

As far as I can tell (mine is out for delivery, so not in my hands, nor do I have the box) its about 80% the same as the disc included in the $300 set with the new inclusion of instrumental stereo versions of every track except Bargain, and mastering on the 5.1 mix only is different for a handful of tracks. Otherwise the same

Alright so I had the two SDE pages opened side by side on the phone for the different Blu-Rays, comparing the contents side by side but I felt pretty stupid after 5 minutes into it and even wanted to do this on the laptop for real time comparison. All along there were voices in my head, how somebody wrote that leaked track lists get copy/pasted over omitting or missing content... Essentially posting inaccurate information without punishment.

And while I am doing this, there are other thoughts and realizations screaming that what a world we live in.

Here is a dying format amidst streaming and Spotify but the people running the show have found a crude way to keep it relevant. People get frustrated but still end up hitting "check out" on overly expensive box sets... And again for the standalone Blu-Ray because it's essentially an updated version.

I observed a sales tactic played out before by the highly-praised Steven Wilson where the Blu-Ray locked within a box set had more content, e.g. The instrumentals on The Harmony Codex, versus the standalone Blu-Ray, the same tactic having been reversed this time around for "Who's Next" by the inclusion of the instrumentals on the standalone Blu-Ray. This sure would prevent an outcry from both parties, those that bought the pricey box set, versus those that only wanted the Blu-Ray.

Having said all of this, I did receive my copy of the standalone Blu-Ray the other day, still sealed. But I remember noticing how 2025 was printed on it to make it different from the box set and relevant. I had no clue there were actual changes made to the actual content.

 

[sjcorne]

Many AI stem separation programs can now provide much better surround results than Penteo IMO. I think the 5.1 surround mix I did in 2023 of "Bargain" has better surround than this new version IMO.

I think these mixes were done either in late 2021 or early 2022, when there weren’t as many stem separation options available.

 

[MixerRog]

I think these mixes were done either in late 2021 or early 2022, when there weren’t as many stem separation options available.

You may be right but they should have updated it with more current technology for what they are charging for this IMO.

Rog

 

[marpow]

Sorry for question I should know.
I have the Who's Next Box Set and now SDE #30 has arrived.
Is the ONLY difference in SDE#30 the addition to having SW Remix Instrumental tracks?

I will not be able to hear this little different stuff between my Box and my Standalone. Will rip for Atmos Instrumental only.

 

[Muppet69]

Mine is on the way and has a delivery date of this Monday, yeah! According to the tracking on Canada post, I’ll be owing $25.81 in duty and taxes, boooooo! I’ve never had that before. I can only assume that it’s because I have 3 discs in total arriving together (2xWho and 1 Tears for Fears) so it been pretty expensive to buy this time. Oh well guess that’s what happens with this hobby of ours. Roll on Monday!