"Kwalitee Kontroll bi Myke Hunt."
Tommy again 5.1 on Blu-Ray
- Thread starter leevitalone1
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"Kwalitee Kontroll bi Myke Hunt."
that's just how I feel about it too, although I'm pretty certain that FL should be FR and SL should be FL as one couple (with drums! bang bang!) and FR should be SR and SR should be SL as another kind of (slightly less cohesive) couple.
Yes, this mapping makes sense to me, too.
Well I sent an email to Universal Music ([email protected]) complaining that the surround channels are not properly allocated. I actually got a reply from a real person who said if I sent him the UPC for the disc that he would look into the matter. So I sent the UPC (602537474059) today. Guess we will see.
I found the email address at the bottom of this page: http://www.universalmusic.com/company/faq
I found the email address at the bottom of this page: http://www.universalmusic.com/company/faq
Un-be-freaking-lievable. How many more ways can Universal screw up this new format launch? No wonder they don't have many 5.1 discs; it's seems that it taxes their abilities to do so.
This, on top of choosing to use the worst of the available 5.1 mixes of ANATO. And releasing 2.0 discs which have 5.1 mixes already done. and on and on...
Forget about using QQ members for QC/beta-testing; Universal needs to hire one of us to right this sinking ship. Neil W. would be perfect, if he was available (but that might take away from his work on the Yes releases, which would be unfortunate). Of course, they'd never do anything that intelligent...
It's almost beyond sad to the point of being funny at this point.
This, on top of choosing to use the worst of the available 5.1 mixes of ANATO. And releasing 2.0 discs which have 5.1 mixes already done. and on and on...
Forget about using QQ members for QC/beta-testing; Universal needs to hire one of us to right this sinking ship. Neil W. would be perfect, if he was available (but that might take away from his work on the Yes releases, which would be unfortunate). Of course, they'd never do anything that intelligent...
It's almost beyond sad to the point of being funny at this point.
A few of us (maybe more, but are afraid to say so) like this new Tommy mix. One of these days I'll listen again with pen and paper in hand and make note of some of the things I really like about it.
I would happily go to work for Universal if they'd hire me.
Fair enough. In a way I like it too... but some stuff is so screwed up it makes you wonder if there is some error. The start of Pinball Wizard, to me, is bizarre. I'm hoping that Universal confirms one way or the other if the channels are mixed up or not.
jsayers
Member
Smash The Mirror, one of the rockier songs, sounds a little weak in this mix. The guitars are mixed too low, imho.
LizardKing
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
If you swap the LS <-> RF channels then Pinball Wizard makes sense to me...
I haven't checked the other recommendation of:
"FL should be FR and SL should be FL as one couple (with drums! bang bang!) and FR should be SR and SR should be SL ...."
Does that work for Pinball Wizard?
Yeah not bad but then listen to It's A Boy and the vocals are coming from Left and slightly Rear instead of from Front Center where they do sound proper. I'm getting nauseated from listening to the different channel combinations. I'm actually starting to think that the channel allocation is correct. They just decided to make a 5.1 mix that doesn't follow any of the rules that we know work from listening to the likes of Scheiner, Wilson, Penny, and Parsons.
Gmat25
300 Club - QQ All-Star
I'm not a hard care Tommy fan, but when I just listen to the mix it really does work for me. I am enjoying it! I've decided not to compare it to the Townsend SACD/DVDA and take it for what it is.
hwkn
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
Sounds a bit like a quad mix with the center and sub thrown in for good measure.
Anxiously awaiting a real reply about this mix. After reading in QQ that the mix was different from my DVD-A of Tommy I made my order but have not opened it until I can discover if it needs to be returned! i have been happy with the Townsend mix but it is wonderful to have alt experiences for great albums like Tommy, Wish You Were Here and Dark Side. Looking forward to the new mixes for Fragile and Brain Salad.
My Impressions on the Blu-ray Tommy Mix
For those of you WHO have come here seeking guidance for a purchase decision of this mix, here are my 5.1 cents.
This release is in some ways parallel to the Pink Floyd DSOTM & WYWH releases, in the sense that we have multiple releases of multiple mixes on multiple formats. Some may find this annoying, as it may seem like an attempt to extort more money from the fan. I personally do not mind multiple variations as long as said variations are wide enough to add new depth and perspective on the underlying recordings. I believe this is the case here.
The Blu-ray mix of Tommy is dramatically different from the previously available 5.1 mix, and for the collector that is great news! Rather than say one is better than the other, I would suggest that they are unique perspectives. I do have a go-to version, but that is a matter of personal taste which is less important to the discussion here.
I give the release a 10 for a Who fan, and more like an 7 for a casual Who listener. I am a Who fan, so my posted vote is a 10. I sat down the other day and made direct comparisons of the DVD-A, the SACD, and the Blu-ray. By direct comparison I mean that I did not change the amp or channel settings when changing discs, so that the material as presented was evaluated. I have still not tried the channel reassignments suggested elsewhere.
Blu-ray Audio DTS
In direct comparisons this is quite a bit quieter at the same amp settings: this probably is a mastering function, and possibly means that more dynamics from the master tapes are represented here. I do not have a way to extract visual waveforms etc. from these discs. Perhaps someone else might comment on this.
The Blu-ray version sounds like a boutique mix for "fan consumption." The separation of elements is excellent, providing a great opportunity for analysis of production technique. This mix offers new perspective on familiar music, more dramatically so than the SACD or DVD-A mixes.
I like the Blu-ray version of 'Tommy Can You Hear Me' better: The guitars on this track are just sparkling in clarity, and at the end the vocal wanders around while on the SACD/DVD-A it is in a static position. You are more likely to encounter that sort of playful mixing on the Blu-ray version.
To me, the effect of having the drums largely (though not always) isolated to the left rear is interesting, but it makes the music seem smaller. (As an aside, I feel the same way about the piano on Van Morrison's Moondance). One of the things that makes The Who The Who is all the high testosterone bigness: both the egos behind the music and the raw huge power of the presentation. The Blu-ray sounds less huge in presentation because of the separation of elements. The SACD tends to widen the mix as compared to stereo while still feeling like a huge Who sound. The good news is that the Tommy recording has lots of more acoustic presentation where the hugeness is not missed.
I love that the Blu-ray menu access is more simple than the DVD-A
SACD DSD
In direct comparisons this is quite a bit louder at the same amp settings than the Blu-ray, but slightly quieter than the DVD-A. The sound is fuller in the low end, although a sub tweak might fill out the Blu-ray. This version feels more like a completed mix for "consumer consumption" with some discrete elements but more conservative mixing than the Blu-ray. The SACD has the benefit of LP outtakes, some of which are mixed in surround. For those who like DSD reproduction, the SACD is the only format that has this option.
DVD-Audio PCM 96K
In direct comparisons this is a little louder at the same amp settings than the SACD, and much louder than the Blu-ray. As with the SACD, this version has the benefit of LP outtakes, some of which are mixed in surround. The DVD audio is the only source of the three for the excellent video interview with Pete Townshend where he discusses mixing Tommy in surround. I am pretty sure this mix is identical to the SACD per other discussions. So if you don't need DSD, I would pick the DVD-A over the SACD.
In summary, I am glad to own all three versions. Each offers something different. My default for Tommy would be SACD DSD for general listening, and Blu-ray if I wanted to get fresh perspective on the music. Even at that, I think the Blu-ray is interesting enough to warrant repeated listenings.
I hope this helps!
See you around!
Ken
Thanks for the excellent review Ken. This is a title that I had not purchased previously, so finally decided to take the plunge for the Blu ray audio version. It sounds like it is a more adventurous mix, which I am always in favor of. I had a little regret about ordering it when I saw the posting speculating that the track assignments were off, but from your review, it sounds like that may not be the case after all. I look forward to receiving my copy and finally giving this a listen in surround.
jsayers
Member
I'm sure it's just me but I can't tell what's what on that waveform.....
Looks like about a 3.4 on the richter scale to me. Nothing to worry about.
From top to bottom: FL, FR, C, LFE, SL, SR.
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