Tommy again 5.1 on Blu-Ray

[sukothai]

from some feedback on here, it would seem the new 5.1 mix is more screwed up than just Pinball Wizard..

I'm one that loves this new mix. The discrete instruments are a revelation and I can't stop playing it. I made a copy to play in my car and it has been in the player for a week growing more fond of it on every listen.

Now, don't get me wrong, it is not a SW masterpiece mix by any means, but I would give it a strong 8. I enjoy it many times over the old DVD-A mix. Listening to this new mix, I feel I'm up on the stage with the band. It feels very personal.

 

[ar surround]

Everyone for whom I have played the SACD 5.1 mix of Tommy agrees that it sounds great; "over the top" as some have said. Heaven forbid we should see a full 5.1 Quadrophenia treatment or any of the other Who albums instead this 5.1 mix of Tommy. Sorry for the rant, but I just don't understand the marketing concept.

 

[Quad Linda]

The MFSL Gold CD has the original version of Eyesight to the Blind. It is a completely different take which was only available on the 1st UK vinyl pressing. The story is that Townshend delivered the masters to MFSL, commenting "this is as far back as they go." Although not 5.1, this pressing is essential for any serious 'Oo fan.

...I checked my MSFL GOLD...

 

[atrocity]

The MFSL Gold CD has the original version of Eyesight to the Blind. It is a completely different take which was only available on the 1st UK vinyl pressing.

I remember finding that disc circa 1988 and being very surprised by what I heard. I didn't realize that take had been previously released anywhere.

 

[Failed Muso]

My Blu Ray of Tommy arrived today and so far, it sounds excellent in DTS-HD MA 24/96.

 

[cupboy]

Seems as though the price eased up a bit so ordered one from the UK.

 

[deepsky4565]

So far a few complaints that the sounds are coming from wrong channels. Is this an error in mixing/mastering or done on purpose?

Just got this, and there is definitely a screw up with channels. For correct mix, switch the front right and rear left. You can tell this is correct by listening to the vocal levels in the channels. The vocals in the rear left match the front left, which is wrong. After swapping, sounds much better!!! Not as dramatic as the Neil Young disc, but way better balance with the drums in front. Unlike Neil Young disc, it seems all tracks are affected. Try it and see.

 

[fredblue]

Interesting! thanks for the info!

another poster here (I think it was "IMachine") suggested to rotate everything bar the centre anti-clockwise, yours is a diagonal swap, which would take the drums away from being all over to the left front & rear left as presented and get them into a stereo image across front L/R, which I like.

it occurred to me it might be a solution to rotate everything clockwise
(so rear left becomes front left,
front left becomes front right,
front right becomes rear right,
rear right becomes rear left)

as then you get drums across front L/R with cymbal crashes etc panning to the back, the Ox's horns at rear left in Overture for example, Pete's guitar licks across the back, kind of makes more sense than anything to me.

I sussed this out by sitting in between Rear Left and Front Left and getting stereo drum effect!

 

[IMachine]

Interesting! thanks for the info!

another poster here (I think it was "IMachine") suggested to rotate everything bar the centre anti-clockwise, yours is a diagonal swap, which would take the drums away from being all over to the left front & rear left as presented and get them into a stereo image across front L/R, which I like.

it occurred to me it might be a solution to rotate everything clockwise
(so rear left becomes front left,
front left becomes front right,
front right becomes rear right,
rear right becomes rear left)

as then you get drums across front L/R with cymbal crashes etc panning to the back, the Ox's horns at rear left in Overture for example, Pete's guitar licks across the back, kind of makes more sense than anything to me.

I sussed this out by sitting in between Rear Left and Front Left and getting stereo drum effect!

Clockwise when you like the drums in the front and anti-clockwise when you like them in the rears.
I like them in the rears.

 

[Failed Muso]

Couple of observations...

1. Has this been mixed/encoded incorrectly or is this merely a new interpretation that some people don't like?

2. Isn't switching speakers around a bit OTT?

Just my tuppence ha'penny

I've never heard any other 5.1 mix of 'Tommy' before this and the Blu Ray sounds good to me.

 

[cupboy]

If you live in a mobile home you can just turn the home around and get the drums in the front if that's where you want them. May be easier than moving the heavy speakers back and forth.

 

[deepsky4565]

Couple of observations...

1. Has this been mixed/encoded incorrectly or is this merely a new interpretation that some people don't like?

2. Isn't switching speakers around a bit OTT?

Just my tuppence ha'penny

I've never heard any other 5.1 mix of 'Tommy' before this and the Blu Ray sounds good to me.

Check the vocal levels in the other channels. The two front channels should have equal volume of vocals. This is the only way to properly center the vocals which are primarily in the center. The channel layout is incorrect on this disc, it is not an opinion.

 

[Failed Muso]

The channel layout is incorrect on this disc, it is not an opinion.

Well, if that's how they intended the mix to be, then it is correct and it is just an opinion. It might not be to everyone's taste, but until we know that it was or wasn't meant to be like that, then we won't know.

Which brings me to my next point. Has anyone raised this with Polydor/Universal?

UPDATE:

I have just sent the following email to Universal's support department...

Hi,

I recently acquired the High Fidelity Pure Audio version of The Who's 'Tommy' and after several listens, it appears that the 5.1 mix is either poorly mixed or incorrectly encoded. By this I mean that the channel allocation seems to be at odds with the accepted norm when it comes to 5.1 mixes.

An increasing number of people are noticing this and voicing identical concerns around various internet forums and message boards, suggesting that this is an error as opposed to an artistic choice.

Is the 5.1 mix featured on the HFPA Blu Ray intended to be this way or are you able to confirm an error in the encoding of the mix?

If there is an error, do Universal or Polydor have any intention of replacing faulty items, and if so, how?

I look forward to hearing back from you very soon.​

I'll report back if I get a reply.

 

[LizardKing]

Using Pinball Wizard as a test track I have to say that I agree with deepsky4565's channel re-assignment...

With the channels swapped as suggested by deepsky4565, For Pinball Wizard you get the guitar starting off in RS, then at 25 sec when the first big "riff" kicks in, it is in the LS (Instead of RF if you leave the channels as is)...

This matches both the stereo mix where initial guitar is in the right channel then the riff at 25 secs is in the left channel. The older SACD/DVD-A also has the initial guitar is in the right channels then the riff at 25 secs is in the left channels.

@:

 

[cupboy]

Yea, maybe I shouldn't have ordered this. I'll just play it in stereo.

 

[César]

Hi, just send a similar request as Failed Muso one to amazon.co.uk. After having listened to the new mix, having drums on the left and guitars on the right, plus vocals in the center and right feels pretty awkward to me. I like the resolution of the new mix, but I'll return it most likely unless they send replacements with the corrected channel allocation.
Will keep you posted on Amazon's feedback

 

[Failed Muso]

Hi, just send a similar request as Failed Muso one to amazon.co.uk. After having listened to the new mix, having drums on the left and guitars on the right, plus vocals in the center and right feels pretty awkward to me. I like the resolution of the new mix, but I'll return it most likely unless they send replacements with the corrected channel allocation.
Will keep you posted on Amazon's feedback

Will be interested to hear what they say.

If anyone else wants to raise this directly with Universal, which is probably wise, seeing as the consensus that this is faulty rather than intentional is growing, try the following link...

http://store.universal-music.co.uk/...es/contact-us-feedback/page/contactusfeedback

 

[César]

Below the answer from Amazon.uk, completely useless as expected :



Your AccountAmazon.co.uk
Message From Customer Service
Hello Cesar,

It's Jason from customer services here, i've picked up your email today and will do my best to answer your question. I'm sorry to hear that the channel mixing appears to be incorrect, there is no way of knowing at the moment if this is a one off error or a problem with the actual production of the album.

I have had a look at both the Universal Music & Polydor websites but unfortunately there seems to be no way to contact them via phone or email that is listed, we would happily send out a replacement for you in the hope that it would be mixed correctly if you would like?

Customer Service can be reached by phone, e-mail and chat 7 days a week 06.00 to midnight, local UK time using the link below.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/contact-us

If you need to call us, we can be reached on Freephone (within the UK) 0800 496 1081. International customers can reach us on +44 207 084 7911.

---------------

 

[Failed Muso]

I just received the following response from Universal...

Hi Rob,

Thank you for your email regarding Pure Audio.

After speaking to our eCommerce team, they have advised that the audio master used to create this HD Pure release was approved by the band from the 'Tommy Deluxe Boxset' re-issue, so the sound is as intended. All Universal releases go through a strict Q+A process, but we would be happy to offer a replacement in the unlikely event of an error on the disc.

If you purchased your item from another retailer, that retailer has a responsibility to you as the customer and also a route back to their supplier. I appreciate that this chain may eventually lead back to a branch of Universal Music, but if your purchase contract is not with the Universal Music store, we could not look to replace or refund for your defective item directly.

Rob, I hope that this answers your questions, but if you have any further questions please let me know.

Kind regards,
Steph Denton

Universal Music Direct Support Team​

So, make of that what you will.

 

[steelydave]

I'm sure they approved the master in the studio, at some level, whether it was blind-sign off, or by actually listening to it. The issue here is with the authoring process, which definitely appears to be faulty. I just don't think it's in Universal's interest to correct it unless a lot of people complain.

One avenue to explore would be trying to contact the guys that actually did the mix and asking them if this was their intention - usually these people are very meticulous and wouldn't like the idea of their hard work being screwed up by an authoring error. A nice bonus would be if we could get them to join the forum here...