Tommy again 5.1 on Blu-Ray

[Failed Muso]

A little bit of research tells me that this version of the album received its 5.1 mix at FX London, carried out by their resident engineer and Bob Pridden.

http://www.fxmastering.co.uk/

They have Facebook and Twitter pages...

http://www.facebook.com/fx.mastering

http://twitter.com/#!/FXMastering1

And are on LinkedIn...

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/fx-mastering/39/443/427

Their phone number is +44 (0)20 8746 2121

Email: [email protected]

I'm going to drop them a line right now. As usual, will report back what I find out

 

[jsayers]

One avenue to explore would be trying to contact the guys that actually did the mix and asking them if this was their intention - usually these people are very meticulous and wouldn't like the idea of their hard work being screwed up by an authoring error. A nice bonus would be if we could get them to join the forum here...

THIS.

 

[LizardKing]

I just received the following response from Universal...

Hi Rob,

Thank you for your email regarding Pure Audio.

After speaking to our eCommerce team, they have advised that the audio master used to create this HD Pure release was approved by the band from the 'Tommy Deluxe Boxset' re-issue, so the sound is as intended. All Universal releases go through a strict Q+A process, but we would be happy to offer a replacement in the unlikely event of an error on the disc.

If you purchased your item from another retailer, that retailer has a responsibility to you as the customer and also a route back to their supplier. I appreciate that this chain may eventually lead back to a branch of Universal Music, but if your purchase contract is not with the Universal Music store, we could not look to replace or refund for your defective item directly.

Rob, I hope that this answers your questions, but if you have any further questions please let me know.

Kind regards,
Steph Denton

Universal Music Direct Support Team​

So, make of that what you will.

Template repsonse....

I got almost the same response when I queried about Gentle Giant - Free Hand...

 

[Failed Muso]

Well, I've emailed FX in London, so it'll be interesting to see what they say. As far as I know, Richard Whittaker is an employee/contractor there, but I've asked them to guide me in the right direction to get definitive answers from the two gents responsible for the 5.1 mix if they themselves can't help.

Guess we wait and see

 

[grill]

Some techy info about the mch mix (not sure if it's relevant):

foobar2000 1.1.15 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2013-11-29 21:28:06

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Statistics for: ?-1_3_audio
Number of samples: 431256416
Duration: 1:14:52
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Channel 1 (FL) Channel 2 (FR) Channel 3 (C) Channel 4 (LFE) Channel 5 (SL) Channel 6 (SR)

Peak Value: -1.78 dB --- -2.37 dB --- -7.76 dB --- -11.00 dB --- -0.01 dB --- -1.59 dB
Avg RMS: -17.26 dB --- -20.76 dB --- -28.25 dB --- -36.05 dB --- -18.23 dB --- -21.24 dB
DR channel: 12.46 dB --- 12.72 dB --- 15.45 dB --- 21.45 dB --- 15.15 dB --- 15.73 dB
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Official DR Value: DR15

Samplerate: 96000 Hz
Channels: 6
Bits per sample: 24
Bitrate: 6899 kbps
Codec: FLAC
================================================================================

Based on the average RMS values of the entire album if the channels are swapped then Channels 1 + 5 may be the fronts and Channels 2 + 6 may be the rears.

 

[Failed Muso]

Where's Neil Wilkes when you need him!?

 

[cupboy]

Some techy info about the mch mix (not sure if it's relevant):


Based on the average RMS values of the entire album if the channels are swapped then Channels 1 + 5 may be the fronts and Channels 2 + 6 may be the rears.

I would go with 2 and 6 being front. 1 and 5 being rear. 3 center. 4 LFE.

I think I'll just sell mine when it arrives from the UK and go with the stereo SHM SACD.

 

[rusinurbe]

Where's Neil Wilkes when you need him!?

Hopefully working with Steven on more excellent surround releases. Trying to keep up

 

[wavelength]

Here's my hookup for Tommy from BD Player Out -> PreAmp (or whatever In):
FrontRight -> FrontLeft
FrontLeft -> RearRight
RearRight -> FrontRight
RearLeft -> same
Center -> same
LFE -> same

 

[jsayers]

Here's my hookup for Tommy from BD Player Out -> PreAmp (or whatever In):
FrontRight -> FrontLeft
FrontLeft -> RearRight
RearRight -> FrontRight
RearLeft -> same
Center -> same
LFE -> same

It's just way too much trouble for me to be switching my speakers around. I'll just suffer with it the way it is unless it turns out this is a big error and replacement discs are forthcoming.

 

[fredblue]

Here's my hookup for Tommy from BD Player Out -> PreAmp (or whatever In):
FrontRight -> FrontLeft
FrontLeft -> RearRight
RearRight -> FrontRight
RearLeft -> same
Center -> same
LFE -> same

that's a "drums in the rears" mix?

 

[wavelength]

that's a "drums in the rears" mix?

Yes - in the Left Rear. There is percussion in the Right Front sometimes. The main reason I like this setup is because 1921 with the dual lead guitars and Pinball Wizard sound correct to me. I'm just about to go back with some fresh coffee and listen to the whole album.

 

[cupboy]

Here's my hookup for Tommy from BD Player Out -> PreAmp (or whatever In):
FrontRight -> FrontLeft
FrontLeft -> RearRight
RearRight -> FrontRight
RearLeft -> same
Center -> same
LFE -> same

Same choices I made in post #87, except that I didn't specify what was left and right not having the disk yet.

 

[wavelength]

Well I didn't listen to the whole album but I did come to some conclusions.

The disc center is the real center because you can hear Roger's vocals isolated there.

Pinball Wizard and 1921 (it's a guitar and piano not dual guitars as I said earlier) only make sense if you use the disc's FrontRight and RearRight channels as the front channels. I put the RearRight as FrontRight because that matches the Stereo mix of Pinball Wizard - acoustic guitar in the FrontRight speaker. In 1921 in the stereo mix the drums are on the left so the disc RearLeft (drums) stays. You can also hear John's bass in the stereo Right and in the RearRight - so they match.

The drums in the RearLeft seem overpowering at times but there is just no other place for them.

 

[fredblue]

are you not getting drums in both rear left and front left on the mix "as is" on the disc, wavelength?

I can't play the disc now to check (12:47 a.m. here) but pretty sure that's what I was getting last time I played it.

centre sounds right/correct where it is, as you say.. but it struck me the remix was supposed to have drums front left & front right.. achieved with rear left moved to front left, front left moved to front right, front right moved to rear right and rear right moved to rear left...

..but nobody here seems to agree with me, so I'll just.. :spot

 

[fredblue]

Same choices I made in post #87, except that I didn't specify what was left and right not having the disk yet.

be interesting to see what you think when you get the BD. whatever's going on, there's a goof in channel placement on the disc, it seems QQ's reached a consensus on that at least now.

 

[wavelength]

are you not getting drums in both rear left and front left on the mix "as is" on the disc, wavelength?

centre sounds right/correct where it is, as you say.. but it struck me the remix was supposed to have drums front left & front right.. achieved with rear left moved to front left, front left moved to front right, front right moved to rear right and rear right moved to rear left

Yes the "as is" mix is as you say - drums on the left both rear and front..."stereo drums" I think you called them which is a very apt description. Why are you asking?

I tried your configuration...it didn't really work for me. It didn't have a surround feeling. Was more of a sound on the left side of the room and sound on the right side of the room kind of experience.

As stated I really need Pinball Wizard to have that Front Right strumming acoustic and the Front Left electric guitar power-chord. And 1921, for me, needs the same sort of interplay across the fronts between the guitar and the piano. But it is all personal judgement. The only thing I'm certain of is that the center and the LFE are not screwed up.

 

[fredblue]

Yes the "as is" mix is as you say - drums on the left both rear and front..."stereo drums" I think you called them which is a very apt description. Why are you asking?

I tried your configuration...it didn't really work for me. It didn't have a surround feeling. Was more of a sound on the left side of the room and sound on the right side of the room kind of experience.

As stated I really need Pinball Wizard to have that Front Right strumming acoustic and the Front Left electric guitar power-chord. And 1921, for me, needs the same sort of interplay across the fronts between the guitar and the piano. But it is all personal judgement. The only thing I'm certain of is that the center and the LFE are not screwed up.

I'm just curious you're getting the same (more likely than not screwed up) channel mapping as me from the get go, with drums all on the left front & left rear.

oh it's a shame it didn't work out for you, its just a suggestion based on what I was hearing.. that the drums should be spread across the front pair with that suggestion.. though I can see there'd be instances where you'd get say only Entwistle rear left and Townshend rear right, so not a very immersive surround mix (but discrete at times) it struck me as rather similar to Pridden's (it was him on that mix too no!?) approach on the Quadrophenia 5.1... Roger focused on in the centre and diffuse in the rest of the soundfield, Moony across the front and various other elements lumped in front and spotlit in the rears.. more along the lines of what the new surround remix was going for and actually closer to Pete's mix..

..hmm..

..I guess there isn't a chance this new Blu-ray has Townshend's' old surround mix, not as loud as the SACD/DVD-A but with the channels screwed up?

right, need to go sleep now! super exhausting trying to work out what's gone wrong here! If I made this many cock-ups in my job I'd get the chop, this lot get to prise the good money out of us for defective goods and live to tell the tale (and do it all over again).. I wish the likes of UMG/EMI would let some folks who know their onions like some QQ-ers road test these things before they go out on sale to the general public.

 

[wavelength]

super exhausting trying to work out what's gone wrong here! If I made this many cock-ups in my job I'd get the chop, this lot get to prise the good money out of us for defective goods and live to tell the tale (and do it all over again).. I wish the likes of UMG/EMI would let some folks who know their onions like some QQ-ers road test these things before they go out on sale to the general public.

Yes exactly. I spent a good portion of this day trying to figure out what will sound acceptable. And I'm thinking about all those people listed in the credits. "Quality Control by Myles Clarke"... he might be an interesting fellow to meet.

 

[grill]

So based on the average RMS values and the listenning experience of the audio tracks the placement of C and LFE channels are correct. FL+SL and FR+SR might be couples, respectively.The preferred order is still in question for me.