SPOTLIGHT 6 Vocalion Surround SACD Releases - Argent, Blood, Sweat & Tears, BW Stevenson, Guess Who, Buddy Miles & Santana, Don Sebesky (Dec 2019)

[fredblue]

How prominent is audience noise on the live aspect of this one, I can’t stand some oik whistling and shouting in my ear when I’m trying to appreciate the music? For this reason I tend to avoid live recordings but understand that some of this was actually redone in the studio?

yes its there but not intrusively so and some of the performances are so spectacular it doesn't impinge on the music for me at all.

 

[Quad Linda]

Since the advent of Quad, it has cost me a young fortune to acquire all these surround mixes, expanded versions and audiopile (sic) pressings.

Discovering surround mixes, etc. has been just as joyful as the music itself.

 

[fredblue]

1- Santana & Buddy Miles has lots of applause and cheers. No annoying "play Whippin' Floss (sic)" cat calls.

Like most Columbia Quads, it is a very active mix. It is one of my favorite Quads to balance/mix to better focus on particular musicians and parts.

Marbles, Evil Ways and Them Changes are not to be missed. Most of my listening to this title has been on Q8. Side/program 2 is a long jam. THIS ALBUM COOKS!!

Sorry, this is only 2ch, but here's the 45 edited version:



2- Argent Nexus UK LP. Great question. Yes and no. Truth be told, it isn't marked as SQ, but the UK LP decoded reasonably well on my old Marantz front-back SQ and better with the SQA-2 full logic. I assumed that it was SQ encoded, ala my 3 LP Lotus, which decoded like a charm. I later found out why.

No doubt the back cover of the SACD will mention released w/original catalog #('s) or as previously unreleased mix.

Admittedly, I have never owned the US LP of this title. The mix is probably the same. Again, an assumption on my part.

I bought this as a new release import in early '74. It came out in the US many months later, albeit with a different cover.

I would love to hear from any of you who have the US LP and SQ decoding. Curious to know how well that decodes. Anyone???

Hey Fred/Adam, do you have the UK LP? If so, how is it through your surround master?

BTW, since I usually spin my CD's in the car, I never decoded the UK CD, but suspect it would decode just as the UK LP. Both have silver covers, as shown in the Vocalion attachment at the beginning of this thread.

IMHO, this is Argent's best album. I'm anxious to hear it in its' SACD Quad glory. Can't wait to hear Music from the Spheres and Thunder & Lightning on SACD! (no,not the Chicago or Chi Coltrane songs.)

IMHO, Argent never did a bad album. YOU NEED IT!!

hi Linda,
i don't have Nexus on vinyl and haven't yet tried the Argent albums in Stereo in the new SACD set through the Surround Master but will give it a go and report back

 

[Quad Linda]

Adam, how is the Quad SACD mix of Nexus?

 

[artwwweb]

As a hybrid SACD [containing a RBCD layer] YES but a few years ago, Classical Label BIS released some long playing single layered STEREO only SACDs* clocking in at between 3~almost 4 hours in 16 bit resolution [NO CD layer, of course].

Thanks! But Giant Box is listed as a hybrid, so ought to be limited to 80 mins .

 

[fredblue]

Thanks! But Giant Box is listed as a hybrid, so ought to be limited to 80 mins .

it's nearly 2 hours' worth of Quad!! unbelievable but true

 

[fredblue]

Adam, how is the Quad SACD mix of Nexus?

i've only played "In Deep" (In Quad) from the set so far but i think "Nexus" and "Ring Of Hands" are Stereo only

 

[DuncanS]

Adam, how is the Quad SACD mix of Nexus?

i've only played "In Deep" (In Quad) from the set so far but i think "Nexus" and "Ring Of Hands" are Stereo only

Yes "In Deep" is the only Argent in Quad in the set. I knew members of Argent and although they did a few Quad gigs. AFAIK "Encore" the live album wasn't mixed into Quad although it was rumoured to be.

 

[fredblue]

Yes "In Deep" is the only Argent in Quad in the set. I knew members of Argent and although they did a few Quad gigs. AFAIK "Encore" the live album wasn't mixed into Quad although it was rumoured to be.

View attachment 44743

thanks Duncan!
i'm going In Deep next..

edit: hold the phone!! ️
i just realised i haven't played the new B.W. Stevenson disc at all yet!!!!
In Deep will have to wait.. time for me to get my lugholes around My Maria

 

[artwwweb]

it's nearly 2 hours' worth of Quad!! unbelievable but true

Don't worry, I believe you . But the theory is that hybrid SACDs are limited to 80mins and that this is a hybrid SACD. So either it's not hybrid or the theory about having a CD layer is incorrect. Or... I've misunderstood something. Maybe the comments about being limited to 80 mins simply mean the CD layer is limited to 80 mins, but the SACD can be longer. That certainly seems to be the case.

 

[fredblue]

Don't worry, I believe you . But the theory is that hybrid SACDs are limited to 80mins and that this is a hybrid SACD. So either it's not hybrid or the theory about having a CD layer is incorrect. Or... I've misunderstood something. Maybe the comments about being limited to 80 mins simply mean the CD layer is limited to 80 mins, but the SACD can be longer. That certainly seems to be the case.

well there's been a lot of rubbish written on the internet about hi-res/surround music over the years!

(i should know i did more than my fair share.. and long may the waffle and the wine continue to flow in 2020!! ha! )

ahh.. time to crack open the Port methinks

perhaps steelydave with his hotline to DV can fill us in on how the Watford Wizard managed to get so much MultiCh on his disc!?

"how do you think he does it?
i don't know!
what makes him so good..!?"

️

 

[ArmyOfQuad]

Running my UK Nexus LP through the surround master now. Not hearing much to suggest it as a stealth quad.

Gonna need to hear a copy decode significantly differently than mine to buy the "stealth quad" theory.

With all the years of collecting there not being a single copy surfacing, catalog listing, advertisement, and the only shred of evidence being a single claim of seeing copies in a record store many many years ago, and no tapes surfacing in the hunt for tapes for this reissue, I am rather confident there was never a quad mix done for Nexus. Of course, we have all been surprised before with the things that surface out of nowhere....

Looking forward to the In Deep SACD though. It will be nice to have 3 of my favorite Argent albums on SACD (they are all my favorite). Too bad they couldn't license Counterpoints and finally get a digital reissue of that one. I think that one is tied up in legal limbo though. Ah well, I still have my LP and 8-track to listen to for that one.

 

[par4ken]

i've only played "In Deep" (In Quad) from the set so far but i think "Nexus" and "Ring Of Hands" are Stereo only

I suspect that you are right, I was looking for my copy of "Nexus" and couldn't find it, I do have "Ring Of Hands" stereo though.

 

[Scott65]

Yes "In Deep" is the only Argent in Quad in the set. I knew members of Argent and although they did a few Quad gigs. AFAIK "Encore" the live album wasn't mixed into Quad although it was rumoured to be.

View attachment 44743

copyright 2020....

 

[The Auroran]

The Giant Box album is nearly 60 mins long. And it's on the SACD twice? (Discrete but non-master and SQ master decoded.) So the one SACD contains nearly 120 mins of 4.0 material? I don't think I've ever known an SACD anywhere near that long. Wow.

Could someone explain the logic of including a SQ decode of the album along with a copy (even of it's one or two generations from the master) of the only available copy of the master?

 

[artwwweb]

Could someone explain the logic of including a SQ decode of the album along with a copy (even of it's one or two generations from the master) of the only available copy of the master?

One is discrete but not master, one is master but not discrete. I.e. they both are not perfect so they are giving you the chance to decide which is the ‘least imperfect’.

 

[The Auroran]

One is discrete but not master, one is master but not discrete. I.e. they both are not perfect so they are giving you the chance to decide which is the ‘least imperfect’.

That doesn't quite feel right, you know. Even if the copy of the master was 3 or 4 times below the master, it's still going to be more impressive than an SQ decode, especially as there are no hardware decoders that come close to replicating what's on the master, or copy, so it seems, to me, a very odd choice.

Is there an explanation as to what and why this was done?

 

[fredblue]

That doesn't quite feel right, you know. Even if the copy of the master was 3 or 4 times below the master, it's still going to be more impressive than an SQ decode, especially as there are no hardware decoders that come close to replicating what's on the master, or copy, so it seems, to me, a very odd choice.

Is there an explanation as to what and why this was done?

i guess they could've used a script rather than a hardware decoder (or "that bloody box" as one former member would've put it!) to maybe try to more closely replicate the master.. if the Involve Surround Master is indeed what was used on this occasion as it was on the Airto disc.. but they did what they did how they did it, you can't please all of the people all of the time.

i don't see other labels falling over themselves to disclose details as to what they do and why but maybe it's worthwhile writing to the label?

they don't appear to have a profile here but from what i gather they do respond to email enquiries.

 

[artwwweb]

That doesn't quite feel right, you know. Even if the copy of the master was 3 or 4 times below the master, it's still going to be more impressive than an SQ decode, especially as there are no hardware decoders that come close to replicating what's on the master, or copy, so it seems, to me, a very odd choice.

I agree with you in general. However, presumably it is not obvious which one is the best so they thought they’d let listeners decide. Some might prefer fidelity over discreteness (discretion?!)

 

[fizzywiggs41]

That " Santana/Miles -Live" is one of the best quad live discs I have ever heard...............loved my SQ album.