Apple Joining the Atmos streaming game!

[jamoke]

Good grief Charlie Brown, another expensive way to be disappointed.
Temper those expectations folks, while the possibilities are there for great things, it will get fudged up in the marketing and delivery.

I'll let those with money-to-burn pave the way to glory and frustration.

 

[salsdali]

a couple questions:

1. Was Pearl Jams Atmos album streamed lossless full bitrate on appletv or was it truncated?

2. For Tidal, did anyone ever figure out how those songs were being remixed into atmos, ie. is it just an upmix?
I ask because wouldn't apple just do the same thing instead of actually hiring engineers like Elliot to actually mix a song or album into true atmos using the master tracks?

 

[jeromejohn]

1. I think the PJ is high bitrate but not lossless and the mix is very conservative especially in the heights
2. Most of the mixes are discrete. But probably 30-40% (maybe more) may be characterized as upmixes

 

[Albert Dagger]

a couple questions:

1. Was Pearl Jams Atmos album streamed lossless full bitrate on appletv or was it truncated?

2. For Tidal, did anyone ever figure out how those songs were being remixed into atmos, ie. is it just an upmix?
I ask because wouldn't apple just do the same thing instead of actually hiring engineers like Elliot to actually mix a song or album into true atmos using the master tracks?

My experience with Tidal: most of the surround mixes I've heard are discrete. There might be some upmixes (or more conservative mixes), but most of them sound like authentic surround mixes to me. There are also some anomalies, such as Suzanne Ciani, which is advertised as Atmos, but it's in fact a quad I think.

 

[Toto4Ever]

I’m interested in this, but think I’m going to hold fire & see out it pans out ??

I didn’t take up my years free Apple subscription, when recently purchasing my iPad, but I assume you have to buy Apple 4K TV box, in order for this ??

 

[MrSmithers]

Pretty cool news that Apple Music is joining the Dolby Atmos gang. And great you'll be able hear the proper surround through an Apple TV 4K, phew!

I think the main reason I'm pleased is they didn't raise prices for this, and Amazon have already been forced to drop their prices in response. But also because it increases the chance of more music being mixed and 'released' in Atmos too. On the Apple press release they stated a couple of (unexciting) artists that haven't appeared on Tidal yet. So I'm hoping they'll have others that have already been mixed in Atmos but equally missing from Tidal like -

Taylor Swift - folklore
Bob Marley - Legend (new Atmos mix)
The Beatles - Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
Lady Gaga - Chromatica
Selena Gomez - Rare
Michael Kiwanuka - Kiwanuka

plus... I've seen various press clippings that have mentioned tracks by The Killers, Amy Winehouse, The Orb, Sigrid, Skip Marley have been mixed in Atmos too.

And hopefully some big, classic albums properly remixed! Where's U2 when we need them Apple?!

It's been a long time coming for lossless. I have my doubts about whether the Atmos will be lossless though... I'm not even sure if the box can support it? But a big player like Apple getting involved defo helps surround.

One interesting side note is the lack of any mention of 360 Reality Audio? Hmmm...

 

[J. PUPSTER]

https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-lossless-audio-and-the-state-of-high-end-audio/

 

[humprof]

https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-lossless-audio-and-the-state-of-high-end-audio/

He's right to be skeptical about all sorts of things, including Atmos for Headphones (and Apple's proprietary equivalent). But he neglects to mention that you'll actually be able to stream not just to headphones, but also to AVRs--as long as you're willing to buy an Apple TV box for $150+.

 

[Strilo]

I already have an AppleTV, I have for years. I streamed the Pearl Jam Gigaton visual album a lot. And now I will be able to play lossless and Atmos content from my AppleTV to my AVR. Perfect for me and for literally no extra money.

 

[Mcallister]

i also already use an ATV4K in my system and have a family subscription to Apple Music so this works perfectly. I had given Tidal a shot when they released Atmos but cancelled after a few months. Although I really liked it I found the resolution to be lackluster and I much prefer Apple Music’s UI.

 

[Strilo]

It's not Atmos related directly, though it is part of this Apple Music Hi-Fi rollout, and it makes sense to us audio geeks... but the music won't be lossless when using wireless headphones like AirPods Pro or whatever. Obviously, the wireless audio is compressed over Bluetooth, so it couldn't by definition be lossless. But I had a few friends who were like "WTF it has to be wired headphones on my phone??"

Still, I believe we get lossless and even higher than 44/16 resolution music when streaming from AppleTV, which I did all the time at my old house (and will even more at my new house).

 

[Mcallister]

It's not Atmos related directly, though it is part of this Apple Music Hi-Fi rollout, and it makes sense to us audio geeks... but the music won't be lossless when using wireless headphones like AirPods Pro or whatever. Obviously, the wireless audio is compressed over Bluetooth, so it couldn't by definition be lossless. But I had a few friends who were like "WTF it has to be wired headphones on my phone??"

Still, I believe we get lossless and even higher than 44/16 resolution music when streaming from AppleTV, which I did all the time at my old house (and will even more at my new house).

I believe you will be able to select up to 24/192

 

[dabl]

I had given Tidal a shot when they released Atmos but cancelled after a few months. Although I really liked it I found the resolution to be lackluster and I much prefer Apple Music’s UI.

I'd be pleasantly surprised if Apple offers higher resolution Atmos than Tidal but I'm doubtful. Other than taking their word for it if they even offer those kinds of details to consumers (Tidal did not) it will take similar sleuthing to determine the resolution of the actual files which was only possible for Tidal because their security wasn't/isn't very good. Apple's stuff will likely be far harder if not impossible to crack based on past history. That's why a copy of Pearl Jam's Gigaton Atmos album never appeared in the wild for instance.

 

[Mcallister]

Agreed. I don’t expect the Atmos to be lossless but I already use Apple so I’m happy about that

 

[Strilo]

I believe you will be able to select up to 24/192

I would assume that's only if the content was made available by the record label at that resolution.

 

[harync]

Any indication that a TV with the AppleTV app will be able to pass Dolby Atmos (E-AC3) to an AVR via ARC? I bought a Firestick 4K for Tidal Atmos and got my $40 worth, but the price of an Apple TV 4K is more than I want to spend.

 

[madship]

There's the rub: still another device to buy (for those of us who don't already have one). The monthly cost is half of Tidal's, though--for now, anyway--and one would hope that Apple's search capability and customer service are better, too. And I think there's reason to hope that unlike Tidal, they might stream a non-lossy version of Atmos.

Don't get your hopes up on Apple search. It is awful in the App Store. All I want is native support for multi-channel ALAC in the Music App.

 

[neil wilkes]

I would assume that's only if the content was made available by the record label at that resolution.

And always assuming whatever portable device is being used can actually handle the resolution in the first place.
I also suspect the vast majority of the 'Atmos' mixes are not only faked upmixes via Penteo, but bear in mind also that Atmos is restricted to a maximum of 48k sample rate too.

 

[salsdali]

I also suspect the vast majority of the 'Atmos' mixes are not only faked upmixes via Penteo, ...

This was my question earlier about Tidal. Does anyone actually have any definite proof from Tidal? If not, who are the mixers? Why does this info seem to be hidden from the public? Someone has got to know the exact answer as to how all these songs nowdays are suddenly becoming atmos?

 

[neil wilkes]

This was my question earlier about Tidal. Does anyone actually have any definite proof from Tidal? If not, who are the mixers? Why does this info seem to be hidden from the public? Someone has got to know the exact answer as to how all these songs nowdays are suddenly becoming atmos?

Upmixes. Simples!
If you bear in mind that serious numbers of allegedly 5.1 films/TV shows are Penteo creations (admitted on websites for Penteo & Halo Upmix) and there are only 3 (IIRC) certified Atmos rooms in the UK the last time I counted (which was admittedly over a year ago now) then simple mathematics coupled with the point you have made about no information on the mixers tells you all you need to know