BIG Blu-Ray Audio drive from Universal Music in 2013

[fredblue]

So of those what do we think will have surround at least:

Diana Krall - Look Of Love,
Layla - Derek & The Dominos, (hopefully the ES mix in hi-rez at last)
Stan Getz & Joao Gilberto - Getz/Gilberto

Any others...

Some ABBA (mixed by SW) and Dire Straits would be nice also....

I'd add the Lang Lang to those possible 5.1's, as that is a 5.1 SACD.

Spookily enough I just suggested in a PM to a fellow QQ-er how cool it'd be for the Layla BD-A to have the ES surround mix!
Great minds think alike!

If the Dire Straits is "BIA" then it would be a no-brainer for them to include the 5.1 on the BD-A.. as for Queen/U2/Abba in 5.1.. and to have SW remixing it all.. ah, the stuff of dreams..!!

 

[fredblue]

Just thinking on LK, I'm not sure the Getz/Gilberto would have surround on it after all,
as the (numerous!) SACDs are all in Stereo..!?

http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/180

http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/2380

http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/6509

http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/7490

 

[ChristopherLees]

maybe it's a just good way to put out their music with Cinavia protection

http://blog.dvdfab.com/cinavia-protection.html

and post 5 on this link
http://www.hifivision.com/blu-ray-d...sk-recorders/28405-non-cinavia-br-player.html

after all if the blu rays can all be copy protected, the problems associated with torrents in their minds go down

 

[Failed Muso]

Though this is good news I'd prefer they stick with an established audio format i.e SACD or DVD Audio rather than introduce another niche format for hi-rez audio. And I admit part of my reluctance comes from the fact I'd have to buy another disc spinner to plays these things.

The music in 24/96 or 24/192 ought to sound the same regardless of format, right (assuming we are talking about identical masterings)?

Or this all about copy protection ?

But is Blu Ray niche? It's fast becoming the dominant movie format with a very large installed user base. As for buying another player, there are universal decks out there that can play all three (I have my eye on a Pioneer at the moment for when I take the plunge)

For me, it's about making things more standard across the board. One player, one codec, one connector. Make it simple and the masses jump on board. If the masses jump on board, the content increases. Everyone wins.

And yes, you could well be right about the copy protection thing. As long as I can legitimately rip a digital copy for personal use on my MP3 players of choice, I'd be happy.

I'd rather stick with SACD and DVD-A too.. and I've no idea why this is happening in this way and why right now..

..but I can't help thinking of the perception of the general public..

..and that is that CD and DVD are only "regular quality".. and so SACD and DVD-A are also just "regular" too, as they are just different kinds of regular old CD and DVD (even though we know they're not)..

.. but blu-ray is associated with "High Definition".. and so if there's a format that does higher than DVD quality video, it will automatically be identified with folks as doing higher than CD quality sound, too.

I dunno.. its a simplistic way of looking at it..

..but 'cynical me' says it probably is a copy protection thing as far as Universals' concerned as much as anything else..!?

To use a phrase you used in another thread, nail hit firmly on the head. It's about simplifying the concept and appealing to consumer perceptions. It's no coincidence that Dolby and DTS (or Datasat) suffixed their new audio codecs with the letters HD long after we'd all been consuming HD audio via DVD-A and SACD. Like the ubiquitous letter "i" prefix, the HD suffix tells your average, consumer that it is currently perceived to be of the latest and best quality, as far as AV is concerned. Blu Ray carries that mantle and so if you tell someone that it's music on Blu Ray, they'll perceive it as high quality. The majority of consumers, the mass market, the segment of the market that makes things happen by spending ££££'s, need it simple. I worked in the consumer electronics sales trade for quite some while and it all boiled down to a small collection of words and phrases that they understood to mean they were investing in something worthwhile and of value. Start throwing multiple terms and technologies at them and they'll just walk away. Whenever there have been multiple formats, it's the ones that make things simple and easy that predominantly win out. Make it simple and make it work

 

[Scott M4]

Thought I'd mention that I prefer the less distracting grey/silver look of the Pure Audio cases over the standard blue, which I feel greatly distracts from cover imagery. (Clear would be even better but grey is more neutral than the blue.)

People complained about CDs being smaller than LPs for cover art but I am I the only one who feels the blue casings for BR discs are horrid (and strictly a signifier of format, where a sticker or the size of the case would do the job)? Let's use Steve Wilson's Raven or Grace for Drowning albums as examples of BR cases ruining an artistic mood. I really appreciated the black casing for Recoil's Strange Hour BR case.

 

[fredblue]

But is Blu Ray niche? It's fast becoming the dominant movie format with a very large installed user base. As for buying another player, there are universal decks out there that can play all three (I have my eye on a Pioneer at the moment for when I take the plunge)

For me, it's about making things more standard across the board. One player, one codec, one connector. Make it simple and the masses jump on board. If the masses jump on board, the content increases. Everyone wins.

And yes, you could well be right about the copy protection thing. As long as I can legitimately rip a digital copy for personal use on my MP3 players of choice, I'd be happy.



To use a phrase you used in another thread, nail hit firmly on the head. It's about simplifying the concept and appealing to consumer perceptions. It's no coincidence that Dolby and DTS (or Datasat) suffixed their new audio codecs with the letters HD long after we'd all been consuming HD audio via DVD-A and SACD. Like the ubiquitous letter "i" prefix, the HD suffix tells your average, consumer that it is currently perceived to be of the latest and best quality, as far as AV is concerned. Blu Ray carries that mantle and so if you tell someone that it's music on Blu Ray, they'll perceive it as high quality. The majority of consumers, the mass market, the segment of the market that makes things happen by spending ££££'s, need it simple. I worked in the consumer electronics sales trade for quite some while and it all boiled down to a small collection of words and phrases that they understood to mean they were investing in something worthwhile and of value. Start throwing multiple terms and technologies at them and they'll just walk away. Whenever there have been multiple formats, it's the ones that make things simple and easy that predominantly win out. Make it simple and make it work

you'll regret getting a Pioneer BDP, they're bug-ridden horror fests. save up for an Oppo

 

[fredblue]

Thought I'd mention that I prefer the less distracting grey/silver look of the Pure Audio cases over the standard blue, which I feel greatly distracts from cover imagery. (Clear would be even better but grey is more neutral than the blue.)

People complained about CDs being smaller than LPs for cover art but I am I the only one who feels the blue casings for BR discs are horrid (and strictly a signifier of format, where a sticker or the size of the case would do the job)? Let's use Steve Wilson's Raven or Grace for Drowning albums as examples of BR cases ruining an artistic mood. I really appreciated the black casing for Recoil's Strange Hour BR case.

with you on that, you're not alone, I like the new grey/see-thru BR-A/HFPA disc cases.

 

[LivingForever]

Wonder if we'll get the Mike Oldfield 5.1s on Bluray audio? That'd be lovely.

The daft thing is- you could probably fit an artist's entire catalogue on one Blu-ray Disc. Obviously they won't do that though otherwise they'd have to charge £100 for a single disc- and who even amongst us is going to do that?

 

[LizardKing]

Wonder if we'll get the Mike Oldfield 5.1s on Bluray audio? That'd be lovely.

The daft thing is- you could probably fit an artist's entire catalogue on one Blu-ray Disc. Obviously they won't do that though otherwise they'd have to charge £100 for a single disc- and who even amongst us is going to do that?

For the whole of King Crimson, Yes or Porcupine Tree catalogs I'd cough up....

 

[DuncanS]

I took the plunge last year and bought a Denon DBP-21012UD Blu-Ray, DVD-A, SACD, CD (sadly no HDCD). The Tom Petty/Steven Wilson/Rush/Led Zep Blu-Ray Audio all sound great, and with the Audio key on the remote its fairly easy to play in 5.1 (on most discs) without turning on the TV - which I find a pain, which is why I like SACD. So I'm up for supporting Blu-Ray Audio, if in Hi-Res 5.1 I'd definitely purchase, with Hi-Res Stereo a 'bonus'.

I agree with JonUrban lets support the guys in the industry that are trying to give us Hi-Res 5.1 music. Look at the benefits with Nosound & KScope, Cherry Red (Esoteric, Atomhenge releases), and Steven Wilson's great efforts.

 

[fredblue]

Wonder if we'll get the Mike Oldfield 5.1s on Bluray audio? That'd be lovely.

The daft thing is- you could probably fit an artist's entire catalogue on one Blu-ray Disc. Obviously they won't do that though otherwise they'd have to charge £100 for a single disc- and who even amongst us is going to do that?

oh YES! it would be very lovely indeed! replace those bloody Dolby things! ..and Mike O's a UMG artist now, so he's as likely as any of their line-up to appear on one of these things, if it takes off, I guess!?

it is crazy.. the capacity of these discs is something else! in reality way too big for a standalone music release.. but it is what it is and if this is how the big boys want to dress it all up, if it means we get Hi-Rez/surround, easy to get and not an arm and a leg, I'll play along.

hmm.. I reckon surround or not, they won't fill these BD's with an artists' whole back cat., they'll probably eek it out and milk us album by album at £15-£20 quid a pop.. and then come up with a box set of blu-rays of all their albums a year or so down the line!

well, there's at least one ultra rare SACD I'd think very carefully about throwing down a hundred smackers for.. (I'm looking at you, you Moment of Glory Scorpion b*****ds..!!) and I doubt I'm alone in that! Other than that, probably not..

 

[fredblue]

For the whole of King Crimson, Yes or Porcupine Tree catalogs I'd cough up....

..be careful what you wish for with all that coughing! cough cough!

 

[fredblue]

I took the plunge last year and bought a Denon DBP-21012UD Blu-Ray, DVD-A, SACD, CD (sadly no HDCD). The Tom Petty/Steven Wilson/Rush/Led Zep Blu-Ray Audio all sound great, and with the Audio key on the remote its fairly easy to play in 5.1 (on most discs) without turning on the TV - which I find a pain, which is why I like SACD. So I'm up for supporting Blu-Ray Audio, if in Hi-Res 5.1 I'd definitely purchase, with Hi-Res Stereo a 'bonus'.

I agree with JonUrban lets support the guys in the industry that are trying to give us Hi-Res 5.1 music. Look at the benefits with Nosound & KScope, Cherry Red (Esoteric, Atomhenge releases), and Steven Wilson's great efforts.

great bit of kit

I wouldn't worry too much about the lack of HDCD, almost all of the regular redbook HDCD discs I've tried out have horrible modern brickwalled re-masterings! There's some AF stuff etc and other exceptions but I don't think its that big a deal, you've got everything else covered with one of those lovely Denon's.

yep.. why bite the hand that feeds you..!? if any UMG geezers come here let's kiss their asses and plead for loads of surround music blu-ray's..!!

 

[leevitalone1]

you can count the number of hdcd's on both hands. No biggie. I have one and I ended up with the quad version instead. better.

 

[The Rang]

But is Blu Ray niche?

I meant niche from a Hi-Res audio perspective.
I agree it's becoming dominant for movies and if that association results in more hi-res for those who care, then that's good.

 

[Failed Muso]

you'll regret getting a Pioneer BDP, they're bug-ridden horror fests. save up for an Oppo

Hmmm... Thanks for the heads up. I've had Pioneer universal decks for some time and they've been loyal and faithful servants, especially as I've been on a restricted budget. I currently own two DV-575A's which suit me well, so naturally I gravitated to their BDP range. I could just buy a Blu-Ray player and hang on to what I've got, but I'd prefer to have an all in one, single cable solution. And that's the other thing. When I do commit to buying in to BR, I will need to upgrade my AV receiver as it doesn't feature HDMI, so that adds to the bill And I need a new sub for my living room set up too...

I'll check out my options and see what bargains Richer Sounds come up with

I meant niche from a Hi-Res audio perspective.
I agree it's becoming dominant for movies and if that association results in more hi-res for those who care, then that's good.

To be fair, DVD-A and SACD are niche by comparison to the current music consumption formats But I think that by consolidating movies and audio on to a single carrier format would help reduce manufacturing costs and encourage proliferation of content. But then, that didn't happen with DVD and wasn't that the intention of DVD-A?

Either way, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for this new initiative, but at the same time, I'm not holding my breath.

Can't beat a good ol' smattering of clichés! LOL

 

[fredblue]

Hmmm... Thanks for the heads up. I've had Pioneer universal decks for some time and they've been loyal and faithful servants, especially as I've been on a restricted budget. I currently own two DV-575A's which suit me well, so naturally I gravitated to their BDP range. I could just buy a Blu-Ray player and hang on to what I've got, but I'd prefer to have an all in one, single cable solution. And that's the other thing. When I do commit to buying in to BR, I will need to upgrade my AV receiver as it doesn't feature HDMI, so that adds to the bill And I need a new sub for my living room set up too...

I'll check out my options and see what bargains Richer Sounds come up with



To be fair, DVD-A and SACD are niche by comparison to the current music consumption formats But I think that by consolidating movies and audio on to a single carrier format would help reduce manufacturing costs and encourage proliferation of content. But then, that didn't happen with DVD and wasn't that the intention of DVD-A?

Either way, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for this new initiative, but at the same time, I'm not holding my breath.

Can't beat a good ol' smattering of clichés! LOL

my simplistic summary of Pioneer's DVD/BD players: their Universal DVD players of old are different beasts to their latter-day BDPS. their DVD players were mostly excellent, made in-house, i have one still going strong, I recommend them.. however, around 3 or 4 years ago Pio shut down their plant and started flogging re-badged SHARP BDP's and even to this day, despite them being found out and stopping the practice of touting crappy Sharp players as ther own, their BDPs are still just terrible, unreliable heaps of crap, with the most abysmal buggy firmware. same goes for Yamaha BDP's - avoid.

I have this BDP:

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/azur-651bd-universal-blu-ray-player

Practically an Oppo BDP-93 clone.. but CA maintain it has a better engineered/dampened chassis and improved DACs.. Wot-ev-urr..!?

I got it because I could buy it from a physical shop (Richer Sounds) as opposed to Oppo which is sold online only and in a few dealers here.. and it was the cheapest way of getting BOTH HDMI and 7.1 Analogue outs in a reliable package.. (Hence you wouldn't have to upgrade your AV Receiver, as it decodes every format - SACD/DVDA/DTS/DD/HDCD/Dolby True HD/DTS Master Audio/DTS HD., you name it.)

..And you know what.. I LOVE IT! It's a wonderful bit of kit! I've not had one seconds trouble out of it (unlike my previous Yamaha BDP.. DRECK!) and the C.A. plays absolutely everything I throw at it! Well apart from my Laserdiscs! They have a tough time getting in the tiny drawers! Matron! :yikes

as for DVD-A, I feel it didn't take off initially because at the time it first launched there weren't any DVD-A players! Or at least affordable ones! The fact it was a kind of DVD didn't help because the added benefits (Advanced Resolution sound, on-screen lyrics, etc) did not work on ALL DVD players but only specifically DVD-Audio machines, more expensive/hard to get at the time. I had to wait years to hear my DVD-A's in anything but Dolby or DTS! Oh and Sony's SACD bungs put the knife well and truly in the format.. blah blah! But that's another story!

 

[Failed Muso]

my simplistic summary of Pioneer's DVD/BD players: their Universal DVD players of old are different beasts to their latter-day BDPS. their DVD players were mostly excellent, made in-house, i have one still going strong, I recommend them.. however, around 3 or 4 years ago Pio shut down their plant and started flogging re-badged SHARP BDP's and even to this day, despite them being found out and stopping the practice of touting crappy Sharp players as ther own, their BDPs are still just terrible, unreliable heaps of crap, with the most abysmal buggy firmware. same goes for Yamaha BDP's - avoid.

I have this BDP:

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/azur-651bd-universal-blu-ray-player

Practically an Oppo BDP-93 clone.. but CA maintain it has a better engineered/dampened chassis and improved DACs.. Wot-ev-urr..!?

I got it because I could buy it from a physical shop (Richer Sounds) as opposed to Oppo which is sold online only and in a few dealers here.. and it was the cheapest way of getting BOTH HDMI and 7.1 Analogue outs in a reliable package.. (Hence you wouldn't have to upgrade your AV Receiver, as it decodes every format - SACD/DVDA/DTS/DD/HDCD/Dolby True HD/DTS Master Audio/DTS HD., you name it.)

..And you know what.. I LOVE IT! It's a wonderful bit of kit! I've not had one seconds trouble out of it (unlike my previous Yamaha BDP.. DRECK!) and the C.A. plays absolutely everything I throw at it! Well apart from my Laserdiscs! They have a tough time getting in the tiny drawers! Matron! :yikes

as for DVD-A, I feel it didn't take off initially because at the time it first launched there weren't any DVD-A players! Or at least affordable ones! The fact it was a kind of DVD didn't help because the added benefits (Advanced Resolution sound, on-screen lyrics, etc) did not work on ALL DVD players but only specifically DVD-Audio machines, more expensive/hard to get at the time. I had to wait years to hear my DVD-A's in anything but Dolby or DTS! Oh and Sony's SACD bungs put the knife well and truly in the format.. blah blah! But that's another story!

Thanks for the tip off!

The price increase over what I had planned is negated, as you say, by not having to update the receiver immediately. I'll see how the finances are after the car has had its combined service/cam belt change/MOT next month

I remember all the talk around DVD as it was launched. I was working in the video content delivery business at the time. Ok, I was the manager of a Choices Video! LOL Everything seemed to be centred around the V of DVD, and how that versatility would see it become the single carrier format for audio, video and data. As Meat Loaf once said, two out of three ain't bad. But Blu-Ray has the potential and it seems to be surviving in a world where downloads and streaming are becoming increasingly accessible and comparable, not forgetting affordable. Maybe now is the time for a single disc based carrier.

Ideally, these new BR-A albums should have hi-res/mc content as well as an option to rip/download a digital version, legitimately. This will satisfy the needs of most users. I love my multi-channel audio, but I also require portable versions for my mobile devices. Can BR's have a CD layer? For the first couple of years, you really need to have that crossover option until the BR installed user base is of sufficient size to drop the old methods. I'm cautiously excited

 

[LivingForever]

I've been thinking about this overnight and they really have the opportunity to do something great here.

I would gladly pay £20 for every new album I buy to be on Blu-Ray disc if...

- I get hi-res content (ok, not strictly essential) which is mastered sympathetically (absolutely critical to make any impact on the audiophile market). Reports I see on SH Forums of a couple of the French test BD releases having the same DR4-5 mastering as their brickwalled CD counterparts are a sure fire way to kill this immediately.

- all the available content for that album is on the one disc. If it's a new album, I want all the tracks to appear on it and I don't want to find additional songs on iTunes or a Japan only CD. If it's a reissue, make sure all the logical bonus tracks from previous reissues are present and correct. If they exist in Hi-Res then they should also be presented as such.

- it comes with a download code to get the main album onto my phone/iPod for portable listening. In fact don't most movies on Bluray have this now?

Multichannel isn't a deal breaker for me but I'd obviously prefer it. If there's an existing OOP multichannel mix and it's left off a BD re-release of the album that's going to annoy me. I guess it's too much to expect new MC mixes but you can always hope!

 

[GabeL]

What's most important to me is that this isn't simply a blu-ray release of material that is already out there. I want truly hi-rez releases or nothing at all. Stereo vs. surround is less of an issue, though I'd prefer surround.