HiRez Poll Dire Straits - BROTHERS IN ARMS [SACD/DVD-A DualDisc]

[Plan9]

For what it's worth, I also think the dynamics are not very good on this mix/mastering. The front channels are squashed.

 

[JediJoker]

If your criteria is based on being more dynamic than this one, for choosing what multichannel mixes you listen to, your list must be very short. DR of 12 is a tough hurdle for a popular recording. I would doubt the DR dynamic range for Psurroundabout is any better than 12.

The TT/MAAT DR Meter was never designed for multichannel audio. It doesn't give accurate readings for more than two channels. I haven't even referenced the DR readings for these; just using my ears and phonographic memory.

The original CD has a higher DR than the MFSL according to the database.

True, but while they are important, dynamics aren't everything. I prefer the tonality of both the MFSL and the '90s Bob Ludwig remaster to the original WB US CD (other pressings may have had different masterings), which I find to be cold, sterile, and lifeless. Both of those stereo remasters are also plenty dynamic (the original is extreme).

For what it's worth, I also think the dynamics are not very good on this mix/mastering. The front channels are squashed.

That makes two engineers with the same findings. I'm guessing it's down to Ludwig's mastering. He also did the stereo mastering on this 20th Anniversary edition, and it's the loudest mastering available (and nothing like his great '90s remaster).

 

[himey]

For what it's worth, I also think the dynamics are not very good on this mix/mastering. The front channels are squashed.

So you prefer two channel on this? I certainly can live with this squashed recording. Everything is relative obviously. Poor dynamics don't stand out on this to most according to the polls and posts.

Do you consider the stereo mix a major dynamic improvement or is this recording a victim of first generation digital which has limitations compared to modern digital and analog which was ahead of digital at that point?

 

[Plan9]

So you prefer two channel on this? I certainly can live with this squashed recording. Everything is relative obviously. Poor dynamics don't stand out on this to most according to the polls and posts.

Do you consider the stereo mix a major dynamic improvement or is this recording a victim of first generation digital which has limitations compared to modern digital and analog which was ahead of digital at that point?

I don't really "prefer" the stereo mix, to me they are two different things, I just regret that the surround mix is mastered like it is.

If you are talking about the mastering of the original stereo mix on these editions, it is probably the "less good" version of this album on digital, it is seriously compressed.

It would be hard to judge the limitations, if any, of this recording as it has become so iconic. BTW this was recorded digital, but mixed analog, and then printed back to digital for the final mix. So it's not a pure digital recording from start to finish. It certainly sounds of its time, and the unmolested stereo mix is veeery dynamic.

 

[JediJoker]

BTW this was recorded digital, but mixed analog, and then printed back to digital for the final mix.

Engineer Neil Dorfsman:

"As the band had to fly back to London to rehearse for their 200-date tour, the Brothers In Arms mix took place over the course of six days on an SSL in Studio Two at the AIR facility on Oxford Street. There, about 20 Neve modules were inserted between the console and the tape machine in order to add a little warmth to the sound.

"I mixed to DAT with a very nice-sounding Prism converter and a pair of Auratones," recalls Dorfsman. "I had been wanting to mix on Yamaha NS10s, which were fairly new at the time, but we couldn't get them in London. So, I went with the Auratones—which should have been called Horrortones—and since I knew the record so well it wasn't that hard."

Despite being tracked all-digitally, and mixed down to DAT, there's a lot of analog sound in the original mix—20 daisy-chained console channel modules, to be exact!

 

[Albert Dagger]

True, but while they are important, dynamics aren't everything. I prefer the tonality of both the MFSL and the '90s Bob Ludwig remaster to the original WB US CD (other pressings may have had different masterings), which I find to be cold, sterile, and lifeless. Both of those stereo remasters are also plenty dynamic (the original is extreme).

Glad to read you like the tonality of both the 96 remaster and the MFSL SACD. A couple of years ago, I got almost killed on SH Forums for mentioning I like the 96 remaster !! My favourite is the MFSL, but I grew up listening to the 96 remaster and - still nowadays - I prefer the more punchy (compressed) presentation of Money for Nothing. For the other songs, the MFSL is great.

I also agree with you guys on the mastering of the surround release. It's definitely a different beast, but it's a great listening experience nonetheless, and especially for the ballads the immersive presentation is nice. I would recommend it to anyone despite the non-perfect sonics, as it's cheap, easy to find and the music is great.

 

[JediJoker]

I would recommend it to anyone despite the non-perfect sonics, as it's cheap, easy to find and the music is great.

Same! I did still give it an "8," after all.

 

[edisonbaggins]

I've never thought this 5.1 mix sounded anything less than totally amazing.
It's on many members' top 10 lists.
The mastering has never even crossed my mind.
I guess I rate it around a 9? Just cause it's not my musical cup o' tea, every second. Plenty of great tunes though.

 

[Albert Dagger]

I've never thought this 5.1 mix sounded anything less than totally amazing.
It's on many members' top 10 lists.
The mastering has never even crossed my mind.
I guess I rate it around a 9? Just cause it's not my musical cup o' tea, every second. Plenty of great tunes though.

7 or 8 is still great
I consider 6 as the threshold for poor surround mixes, but between 7 and 10 it's really a matter of small details and personal taste I think!

 

[MarkyM]

I have the 20th anniversary edition SACD version (bought in 2005) and have been going through all of my surround music discs since some recent system improvements. This and Avalon are my top 2 overall. A solid 10 for me.
I know that the song Brothers In Arms is about war but it will always be associated with cops for me because of its use (in its entirety) during the end section of the Miami Vice episode “Out Where The Buses Don’t Run”. Back in the day, that show was one of the first to fully utilize the then new stereo TV broadcast system. I had just installed the TV stereo adaptor for my Zenith VHS Hi-Fi VCR (a hot running contraption that sat on top of the VCR) and the episode was one of the first things I watched in stereo. Just blew me away at the time, both the experience of TV in stereo and the song, and I ran out and bought the CD right away. How far we’ve come since then!

 

[windhoek]

And memorably used at length in the season 2 finale of The West Wing - one of the finest episodes ever!

 

[JonUrban]

I have the 20th anniversary edition SACD version (bought in 2005) and have been going through all of my surround music discs since some recent system improvements. This and Avalon are my top 2 overall. A solid 10 for me.
I know that the song Brothers In Arms is about war but it will always be associated with cops for me because of its use (in its entirety) during the end section of the Miami Vice episode “Out Where The Buses Don’t Run”. Back in the day, that show was one of the first to fully utilize the then new stereo TV broadcast system. I had just installed the TV stereo adaptor for my Zenith VHS Hi-Fi VCR (a hot running contraption that sat on top of the VCR) and the episode was one of the first things I watched in stereo. Just blew me away at the time, both the experience of TV in stereo and the song, and I ran out and bought the CD right away. How far we’ve come since then!

Oh yeah. What a great episode. The "crazy cop", played by Bruce McGill (D-Day from Animal House, among other roles he's played), he should have gotten an Emmy for that role (maybe he did). That was a great use of of the song in a show, and it was integral to that episode.

 

[MarkyM]

Oh yeah. What a great episode. The "crazy cop", played by Bruce McGill (D-Day from Animal House, among other roles he's played), he should have gotten an Emmy for that role (maybe he did). That was a great use of of the song in a show, and it was integral to that episode.

Agreed! A great performance there by Mr. McGill.

Indeed! These days producers will use snippets of songs but not the entire song integrated so well.

 

[Lord British]

And memorably used at length in the season 2 finale of The West Wing - one of the finest episodes ever!

Agreed. It brought the feels.

 

[markshan]

If your criteria is based on being more dynamic than this one, for choosing what multichannel mixes you listen to, your list must be very short. DR of 12 is a tough hurdle for a popular recording. I would doubt the DR dynamic range for Psurroundabout is any better than 12. The original CD has a higher DR than the MFSL according to the database.

That stupid DR database is one of the worst things to ever happen to this hobby. People have forgotten to listen with their ears. I don't care what anyone says, this is one of my top ten all time surround mixes. I regularly use it as a demo disc and have never had any reaction but stunned amazement.

 

[CRWSurround]

It would be interesting to see some comparative reviews contrasting the DVD-A Hi-Rez vs the SACD. Any volunteers? I only have the DVD-A Dual Disc and have always thought it sounds sensational. I very much enjoy my MC SACD's also, but have not felt the need to duplicate formats on any of them - BUT - this is such an incredible album - if I need to I will! But the DVD-A seems like it would be hard to beat.

 

[edisonbaggins]

It would be interesting to see some comparative reviews contrasting the DVD-A Hi-Rez vs the SACD. Any volunteers? I only have the DVD-A Dual Disc and have always thought it sounds sensational. I very much enjoy my MC SACD's also, but have not felt the need to duplicate formats on any of them - BUT - this is such an incredible album - if I need to I will! But the DVD-A seems like it would be hard to beat.

I have both formats. Can't remember if I've done a competitive review or not, tbh.
When I have compared the same mix on both formats, I have found the differences come down mostly to how one's system handles bass-management.
E.g.

 

[markshan]

It would be interesting to see some comparative reviews contrasting the DVD-A Hi-Rez vs the SACD.

The problem with that is it is more likely a comparison of the D-A converters in your own system than it is a comparison of the music files. Some systems sound better playing DSD and others resample the DSD and play it back as high-res. Technically, in a perfect system, each set of files should sound the same.

 

[CRWSurround]

The problem with that is it is more likely a comparison of the D-A converters in your own system than it is a comparison of the music files. Some systems sound better playing DSD and others resample the DSD and play it back as high-res. Technically, in a perfect system, each set of files should sound the same.

Interesting point!

 

[Shikoku]

Review #5

I was going to go through my 5.1 collection A-Z, but gave up...but... jumped to this disc after not playing all of it. This happens sometimes. I'll get something new in the post and only play part of it.

PACKAGING
EU SACD edition. Nothing too special in the folded sleeve CD card. 20th Anniversary sticker on the front.

CONTENT
I have a hard time with some 80s material. Mostly because I went into the 80s kicking and screaming and latching onto my 70s LPs. However, through some midwest uni friends, I did open up to some new music. But, I gotta say, I wasn't crazy about this release back in the day (and that's probably why I didn't finish playing it when I got it in 5.1). A few things musically grabbed me when I played it front to back today. Loved "So Far From Me", "Ride Across the River", "Man's Too Strong"; all were top-shelf for me. Making Movies is still my fave Dire Straits LP...Need to hear "Juliet" in 5.1...

5.1 + FIDELITY
Brilliant 5.1 mix!!! I'd put this on my top 20 list for sure. Beautiful separation, nice clarity, and some bass kicks as well.

SCORE
9