Dutton Vocalion: What's Next?

[fredblue]

Question for the group. So when DV releases a new SACD with a quad mix, does someone actual remix the album? Or do they just get the mixed down quad master tapes and polish and fix them?

In other words, is there any chance of ever getting something never before released in 4 channel, actually released in 4 channel?

good question!

as far as i am aware, there have been instances where the following has taken place;

- in the case of the Star Wars DV SACD release, the original Quad tapes were found to be in an unusable condition. therefore DV created a new 4-channel mix especially for the SACD.

- in the case of the Raiders Hard 'n Heavy, there was an incomplete previously unreleased vintage Quad mix of the album. Mark Wilder at Sony New York created new 4-channel mixes to complete the album for DV's SACD release.

- DV have released numerous new recordings of Classical repertoire with new MultiCh mixes.

 

[key_wiz]

I agree, Jeffie! And IMO, the reason D~V chose the hybrid SACD is that the included CD layer is more compatible to their original customer base! And to keep prices down [actually on par with their RBCD releases including two~fers] and the proximity of the Austrian SACD pressing plants, Michael has chosen wisely!

And that option to release ATMOS on BD~A might be a future endeavor for the company but as of now ... If It Ain't Broke ... don't fix it!

Quick curious technical question...

is there a reason why ATMOS mixes could not be released on SACD?

 

[DuncanS]

Quick curious technical question...

is there a reason why ATMOS mixes could not be released on SACD?

Simple answer is it can't have ATMOS.

ATMOS has a 5.1 or 7.1 audio bed, from which ATMOS uses a stream of embedded Meta data (i.e. contains position information and what to remove) to extract the ATMOS channels from this audio bed. It then positions all the extracted channels according to your system ATMOS set-up. This is all digital 0's & 1's in a format. Which is why those of us without ATMOS (includes me, though I do have a Smyth A16 which can via headphones) can still hear all the music as our equipment just plays the 5.1 or 7.1 audio bed, so nothing is lost, its just not played back exactly as the mixer intended.

DSD as used on SACDs is very different, the information is formatted as Delta-Sigma Modulation so not really 1's & 0's as found in PCM, flac etc. and so can't have the Meta Data embedded.

 

[Mr. Afternoon]

Simple answer is it can't have ATMOS.

ATMOS has a 5.1 or 7.1 audio bed, from which ATMOS uses a stream of embedded Meta data (i.e. contains position information and what to remove) to extract the ATMOS channels from this audio bed. It then positions all the extracted channels according to your system ATMOS set-up. This is all digital 0's & 1's in a format. Which is why those of us without ATMOS (includes me, though I do have a Smyth A16 which can via headphones) can still hear all the music as our equipment just plays the 5.1 or 7.1 audio bed, so nothing is lost, its just not played back exactly as the mixer intended.

DSD as used on SACDs is very different, the information is formatted as Delta-Sigma Modulation so not really 1's & 0's as found in PCM, flac etc. and so can't have the Meta Data embedded.

Technically, DSD Atmos COULD be implemented, but would require a revision of the SACD spec, and who wants to do that?

The reason Atmos works on BD is because Atmos metadata is an extension of Dolby TrueHD, which is an optional codec in the spec.

SACD only allows DSD, with not much "audio" metadata because the bitrate isn't as variable as Blu-ray's can be.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

I know it may not be a title everyone would be thrilled with, but to me this would be a great top tier Funk/Soul title for MJD to do

https://www.discogs.com/release/1862631-Lou-Donaldson-Sassy-Soul-Strut
- also interesting that Qobuz has a stereo version available at 192kHz x 24bit!

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Got this in my email, so probably nothing new at least for the next few weeks

On the bright side, get some great rest and recharge those batteries MJD; so you can come on strong for the end of the year

 

[esimms86]

Got this in my email, so probably nothing new at least for the next few weeks

On the bright side, get some great rest and recharge those batteries MJD; so you can come on strong for the end of the year

View attachment 94307

Who are you kidding Jeff? We know that you've already spent all of your saved up Dutton Vocalion money on Who's Next!

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Who are you kidding Jeff? We know that you've already spent all of your saved up Dutton Vocalion money on Who's Next!

I haven't spent a dime on Who's Next, yet

 

[jaybird100]

I hope this means that when they come back from vacation, they'll have some new popular releases ready for us.

 

[quicksrt]

I hope this means that when they come back from vacation, they'll have some new popular releases ready for us.

Me too!

 

[ar surround]

Got this in my email, so probably nothing new at least for the next few weeks

On the bright side, get some great rest and recharge those batteries MJD; so you can come on strong for the end of the year

View attachment 94307

When I saw this, I immediately developed the following symptoms:

- unable to sleep
- irritability
- mood changes
- cravings
- hallucinations of the DV logo spinning around my head
- sweating
- shaking

LOL. I hope all the DV folks have a great, well earned vacation!

 

[J. PUPSTER]

When I saw this, I immediately developed the following symptoms:

- unable to sleep
- irritability
- mood changes
- cravings
- hallucinations of the DV logo spinning around my head
- sweating
- shaking

LOL. I hope all the DV folks have a great, well earned vacation!

All’s good then as long as a case of debilitating IBS isn’t on your list

 

[gvl_guy]

When I saw this, I immediately developed the following symptoms:

- unable to sleep
- irritability
- mood changes
- cravings
- hallucinations of the DV logo spinning around my head
- sweating
- shaking

LOL. I hope all the DV folks have a great, well earned vacation!

I'm thinking positive! They've completed their next set of releases and while they're on vacation, they are being pressed. When they get back, there will be the BIG announcement with releases we've dreamed of.

 

[fredblue]

Got this in my email, so probably nothing new at least for the next few weeks

On the bright side, get some great rest and recharge those batteries MJD; so you can come on strong for the end of the year

View attachment 94307

hope all at DV Towers had a lovely Summer holiday!

wishin' and hopin' and prayin' for some goodies... soon maybe!!?

 

[MIDIQ]

I hope they release something soon. Been waiting for the next batch.

 

[jefe1]

Oh Michael where are you? Michael? Look what SDE and Quadio are doing........ are you going to take that?

 

[esimms86]

I hope they release something soon. Been waiting for the next batch.

After The Who, TPT, SDE, Bowie and maybe Lark’s Tongue, I can stand to wait a little while for my wallet to recover.

 

[Colin London]

I wish he could produce the Sony 1976 Quadraphonic Recording "Secrets" Herbie Hancock
Features Wah Wah Watson , Ray Parker Jr, Paul Jackson and on track 1, James Gadson on Drums.
On Track 1 Wah Wah Watson is on Electric Bass, Starts with Ray Parker Jr.'s Guitar.
Herbie Hancock playing all the Great Keyboards of that day.

 

[fredblue]

I wish he could produce the Sony 1976 Quadraphonic Recording "Secrets" Herbie Hancock
Features Wah Wah Watson , Ray Parker Jr, Paul Jackson and on track 1, James Gadson on Drums.
On Track 1 Wah Wah Watson is on Electric Bass, Starts with Ray Parker Jr.'s Guitar.
Herbie Hancock playing all the Great Keyboards of that day.

it's a great album, i love it.. but the Quad is lacklustre and in my opinion is fake and not a distinct Surround mix crafted from multitracks.

also just my opinion but this may be why DV haven't reissued it on Surround SACD to date.

 

[steelydave]

I wish he could produce the Sony 1976 Quadraphonic Recording "Secrets" Herbie Hancock
Features Wah Wah Watson , Ray Parker Jr, Paul Jackson and on track 1, James Gadson on Drums.
On Track 1 Wah Wah Watson is on Electric Bass, Starts with Ray Parker Jr.'s Guitar.
Herbie Hancock playing all the Great Keyboards of that day.

The quad mix is fake, sadly - I did a bit of a breakdown/analysis of it in 2019. Finding out was a bitter disappointment for me, because the other Herbie quad mixes are great and it's an album I love, and also because I paid a small fortune to get one of the handful of Q8 tapes that ever showed up on eBay to find out.

A better option would be if Sony would like Michael Dutton remix the non-quad Herbie albums like Man-Child, Secrets, Sunlight, etc. in spatial audio and release those mixes either on Blu-Ray or downmixed to 5.1 for SACD.