Elton John "Madman Across The Water" 50th Anniversary Box Set (3 CDs & 5.1 Blu-Ray)

[fredblue]

I really fought it. I fought the urge to buy this. Why? GOS buys everything. Now, after all is said and done, I'm pretty glad I didn't bother. Now, Rock of the Westies Deluxe Set? In same format as this one? I'll fall all over myself ordering that one. lol

if its the only way to hear those unreleased 5.1's of Blue Moves, Caribou, Don't Shoot Me and Westies, i'll take it

 

[fredblue]

Here's a review by Mark Smotroff. Impressionistic, uncritical, and not terribly technical. Not what you'd expect--or maybe you would--from a nominally "audiophile" site. (Among other things, he erroneously describes the 5.1 mix as DTS HD-MA.) But sympathetic and enthusiastic, with occasional details about what's going on in individual song mixes.
https://audiophilereview.com/audiop...art-3-the-hi-res-surround-sound-stereo-mixes/

oh crikey..! wondering now if there is in fact DTS HD-MA 5.1 on the BD and somehow i couldn't access it...!?

 

[fredblue]

Just confirming the bonus tracks are available on Apple Music. No sign of the 5.1 though (you can still get Atmos on Tiny Dancer on the Diamonds set).

yes, the bonus tracks are on Apple Music and sound great. i had hoped the album itself might be in Atmos on there but unfortunately not.

 

[4-earredwonder]

oh crikey..! wondering now if there is in fact DTS HD-MA 5.1 on the BD and somehow i couldn't access it...!?

I was thinking the very same thing after reading the review supplied by humprof! Adam needs an OPPO [205] and OPPO needs an ADAM!

I did cancel my AmazonUS order but was told it's sitting at an Amazon warehouse waiting to be delivered ....... And the review did state that the LOSSLESS BD~A did sound 'tighter' than the SACD ........ OH MY .......!!!!!!!!

 

[Clement]

I was thinking the very same thing after reading the review supplied by humprof! Adam needs an OPPO [205] and OPPO needs an ADAM!

I did cancel my AmazonUS order but was told it's sitting at an Amazon warehouse waiting to be delivered ....... And the review did state that the LOSSLESS BD~A did sound 'tighter' than the SACD ........ OH MY .......!!!!!!!!

You can always request a return when it arrives. It should be free if you don't open the package. Heaven knows i've done that in the past!

 

[Bill B]

Twisted sissster? lmao

Nope... the 1970's movie "Network".

And for me it would be "DSMIOTPP" that I would buy regardless.

 

[humprof]

oh crikey..! wondering now if there is in fact DTS HD-MA 5.1 on the BD and somehow i couldn't access it...!?

Well, UMe is no help, and neither is SDE. JPC.de is the only vendor where I can find a description, and they list the 5.1 mix as DTS-HD--not DTS-HD Master Audio. But with a 5.1 mix this old, that might be a distinction without a difference, practically/aurally speaking? (I.e., Penny's early-aughts HD mix might not have any "missing" information that a Master Audio upgrade would "restore"?) I'd need someone with more techno-understanding than I to clarify.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Well, UMe is no help, and neither is SDE. JPC.de is the only vendor where I can find a description, and they list the 5.1 mix as DTS-HD--not DTS-HD Master Audio. But with a 5.1 mix this old, that might be a distinction without a difference, practically/aurally speaking? (I.e., Penny's early-aughts HD mix might not have any "missing" information that a Master Audio upgrade would "restore"?) I'd need someone with more techno-understanding than I to clarify.

Humprof, I would tend to trust the reviewer you posted. BD players HAVE gone through numerous firmware updates in the last few years to accomodate all the changes in BD authoring, etc. and he did state that it sounded, in his opinion, better than the original 5.1 LOSSLESS SACD.

I did try to cancel my Amazon order [which was sanely priced at under $60] but it will probably be delivered tomorrow anyway. If the disc is not DTS~HD MA 5.1 I will return it to AmazonUS for a full refund.

 

[Bill Sherbon]

I didn't find anything specifying lossless surround (which I didn't think I would have to check), so I cancelled my Amazon US order. If it comes out later there is lossless surround I can always re-order (after the price goes down).

 

[4-earredwonder]

Until June 21st, those who have second thoughts about ordering the deluxe edition of Madman can purchase it at ImportCD as they're now offering 10% off with coupon code HAPPY 10. List price for the set is $90US

https://www.importcds.com/madman-across-the-water-50th-anniversary/602435836133

 

[fredblue]

don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill, i just want to make sure there isn't a problem with my trusty ol' Cambridge Audio Azur BDP (so old it does 3D BDMV, yet it still handles new Atmos discs ok) so i'm trying out another machine, one of my Sony 4K players (UBP-X700) and lo and behold, Madman's still playing back in 96/24 5.1 Lossy DTS, not Lossless DTS HD-MA.. sounds good though!!

 

[Clement]

don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill, i just want to make sure there isn't a problem with my trusty ol' Cambridge Audio Azur BDP (so old it does 3D BDMV, yet it still handles new Atmos discs ok) so i'm trying out another machine, one of my Sony 4K players (UBP-X700) and lo and behold, Madman's still playing back in 96/24 5.1 Lossy DTS, not Lossless DTS HD-MA.. sounds good though!!

View attachment 80082

Man, you have been on one (love) rollercoaster (say what?!) today with this release! Do those clinking beer mugs have anything to do with your most recent "sounds good" assessment? Lemme know about that poster–i have you on that one! Stay Surrounded, Comrade!

 

[4-earredwonder]

don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill, i just want to make sure there isn't a problem with my trusty ol' Cambridge Audio Azur BDP (so old it does 3D BDMV, yet it still handles new Atmos discs ok) so i'm trying out another machine, one of my Sony 4K players (UBP-X700) and lo and behold, Madman's still playing back in 96/24 5.1 Lossy DTS, not Lossless DTS HD-MA.. sounds good though!!

View attachment 80082

Wondering if the reviewer confused LOSSY DTS HD 5.1 with LOSSLESS DTS~HD MA 5.1? He did state it utilizes the Bob Ludwig remastering from 2016 [which I was unaware of] and that it did sound better than the LOSSLESS SACD.

A real head scratcher!

 

[fredblue]

i hadn't noticed it before on the Cambridge Audio BDP but just now on the Sony, when Levon went into Razor Face, at the Chapter break after Levon faded out and the music came back in, the DTS decoder stopped and then quickly fired back up again and there was a tiny dink of silent nothingness where it felt like it all should have flowed from one track into the next.

is it a minor gripe? i dunno, probably.. is it equipment-related? maybe.. is it the way the disc is authored as separate DTS 96/24 encoded tracks? oh.. i don't know anymore! i might just eject it and go to bed!

 

[fredblue]

Man, you have been on one (love) rollercoaster (say what?!) today with this release! Do those clinking beer mugs have anything to do with your most recent "sounds good" assessment? Lemme know about that poster–i have you on that one! Stay Surrounded, Comrade!

oh that was just a matey little sign-off "Cheers" to you guys! i hardly ever consume alcohol when i'm home nights anymore (its for the best, believe me ) the 5.1 on the new BD in its own right sounds good, cranking it a good few dB louder than the old SACD really helps it come alive!

 

[fredblue]

Wondering if the reviewer confused LOSSY DTS HD 5.1 with LOSSLESS DTS~HD MA 5.1? He did state it utilizes the Bob Ludwig remastering from 2016 [which I was unaware of] and that it did sound better than the LOSSLESS SACD.

A real head scratcher!

afaik Ralphiepie, Bob Ludwig re-Lud-jigged the Stereo only back then.

no idea who did exactly what to the 5.1 on this BD but its definitely not got exactly the same Channel levels or LFE content as the old MCh SACD.

 

[4-earredwonder]

afaik Ralphiepie, Bob Ludwig re-Lud-jigged the Stereo only back then.

no idea who did exactly what to the 5.1 on this BD but its definitely not got exactly the same Channel levels or LFE content as the old MCh SACD.

Then it does sound like LOSSY DTS 5.1. Even on the SW TULL 5.1 DVD~Vs, as good as they sound in DTS 5.1, they sound superior when I switch over to the LOSSLESS Stereo remasters ...almost like night and day!

 

[fredblue]

Then it does sound like LOSSY DTS 5.1. Even on the SW TULL 5.1 DVD~Vs, as good as they sound in DTS 5.1, they sound superior when I switch over to the LOSSLESS Stereo remasters ...almost like night and day!

honestly Ralphie and this is not to take away from your experience and what you are hearing, i think there might be a separate issue where a certain Stereo mix just has more balls on a certain setup than the 5.1. not always but sometimes.

meantime, it wouldn't be the first time a reviewer made a genuine mistake and/or got some bit of technical info wrong, or just preferred a certain mix or mastering or disc to another without really doing a meaningful comparison, or (shock horror!) relying on memories.. like the 4-corners of my Quad mind!!

there is also the (to me, feels slim) possibility an advance copy for review had DTS HD-MA and the final retail version doesn't for some reason and is only Lossy. ah i dunno.. i'm Verklempt across the water!

 

[4-earredwonder]

honestly Ralphie and this is not to take away from your experience and what you are hearing, i think there might be a separate issue where a certain Stereo mix just has more balls on a certain setup than the 5.1. not always but sometimes.

meantime, it wouldn't be the first time a reviewer made a genuine mistake and/or got some bit of technical info wrong, or just preferred a certain mix or mastering or disc to another without really doing a meaningful comparison, or (shock horror!) relying on memories.. like the 4-corners of my Quad mind!!

there is also the (to me, feels slim) possibility an advance copy for review had DTS HD-MA and the final retail version doesn't for some reason and is only Lossy. ah i dunno.. i'm Verklempt across the water!

As I stated, Adam, my copy will be delivered tomorrow and I can do a thorough evaluation. IMO, the Greg Penny multi~CH SACD was faultless ...among the best ROCK SACDs I have in my collection!

Get some sleep, Pal.

Tomorrow's another day [quoting from Gone With The Long~Winded]!

 

[fredblue]

As I stated, Adam, my copy will be delivered tomorrow and I can do a thorough evaluation. IMO, the Greg Penny multi~CH SACD was faultless ...among the best ROCK SACDs I have in my collection!

Get some sleep, Pal.

Tomorrow's another day [quoting from Gone With The Long~Winded]!

excellent! i look forward to your comments of the morrow, Ralpharoo! ✌🐿

i'd not looked at what was going on in the individual channels in the mix for many years tbh but interestingly the 5.1 on the old SACD has maximised channels and clips a bit in a few places and has a load of (one might say extraneous?) Full-range stuff in the LFE (that i'd totally forgotten about being there) so i wouldn't say its totally without fault.. but i was playing it earlier to try and compare it to the new BD and wow its gutsy and powerful and immersive and dare i say sexy and.. uh oh! its definitely bedtime!