EQ & Fake Surround Sound

[kfbkfb]

https://audio-database.com/SANSUI/etc/qs-1-e.html

Sansui used +6dB (50Hz) and +6dB/-10dB (10kHz) for various fake surround sound creation modes in their QS-1.


I skimmed the owners manuals for my 3 Pioneer A/V receivers, no mention of any EQ applied as part of their internal fake surround sound creation modes, does anyone add EQ to the output of their fake surround sound creation system (matrix decoder/upmix etc.)?


Kirk Bayne

 

[mandrix]

EQ for upmixes yes. I don't know what fake surround is. There are certainly upmixes by various methods one would be hard pressed to define as fake. I mean if it's convincing surround, is it "fake"?
As for the modern AVR upmixing, not a great fan personally though some is passable.

 

[kfbkfb]

Fake surround is just a catch-all phrase for any audio processing method that ends up with more than 2 channel sound (could be "3 channel", such as Hafler/DynaQuad up to Atmos type with height "channel(s)").

(the idea of calling it fake began with a thread about using an SQ matrix decoder to create quad from stereo)

Until I saw recently that Sansui was using (IMHO) fairly dramatic EQ in some of their modes, I didn't consider applying EQ to the output of a fake surround sound creation system.


Kirk Bayne

 

[jimfisheye]

"Fake surround" means something generated by an automated upmixing process from a lesser channel format instead of being done by an engineer's or artist's hand reacting to the sound, creating the work.

Not sure what you're supposed to call it when the engineer uses upmix software on a mix element in a mix they're working on...
But that's what's usually meant by "fake".

 

[kfbkfb]

I was thinking of home audio systems only when using the phrase fake surround sound, IIRC, the Sansui QS-1 was marketed as a device to create 4 channel sound from stereo.

Anyway, it seems that Sansui felt that boosting the Bass (and Treble) a lot was helpful in creating 4 channels of sound from 2 channel stereo, I was just wondering if anyone nowadays is EQing the output of their fake surround sound creation system(s)?


Kirk Bayne

 

[fredblue]

interesting..

tbh i think Fred Catero maybe did something akin to this +/-6dB @50Hz and +6dB/-10dB @10kHz on his fake Quad mix of Santana's 1977 "Festival" although widening the scope of EQ adjustment across a broader frequency range, by among other things, duplicating the Fronts in the Rears, bringing up the Treble and diminishing the Bass of the Rears and boosting the Bass and lowering the Treble of the Fronts and then throwing a clanging reverb over it all, creating a pseudo Surround effect of sorts.

 

[ar surround]

does anyone add EQ to the output of their fake surround sound creation system (matrix decoder/upmix etc.)?

Yes. I boost the BASS on the stereo input to my Surround Master by 4dB. Without that boost, I find the resultant 'fake surround' presentation lacking in the lower end. This seems similar to the +6dB boost at 50Hz of the Sansui QS unit that you mentioned in your initial post.

 

[mandrix]

I use a -6dB and -8dB boost on the low end across all my speakers via Dirac Live.
This is done in the Dirac Live software, and can be done with any speaker or groups of speakers.
I then load the calibrations with the different boost levels (they are called Harman curves) into the EQ slots on my Onkyo TX-RZ50.

So basically whichever slot I pick will apply consistently, not just to upmix. Hope that's clear.
Probably not what you're looking for but thought I'd throw this in.

I still don't like the term "fake surround" though.

 

[gvl_guy]

Fake surround is just a catch-all phrase for any audio processing method that ends up with more than 2 channel sound (could be "3 channel", such as Hafler/DynaQuad up to Atmos type with height "channel(s)").

(the idea of calling it fake began with a thread about using an SQ matrix decoder to create quad from stereo)

Until I saw recently that Sansui was using (IMHO) fairly dramatic EQ in some of their modes, I didn't consider applying EQ to the output of a fake surround sound creation system.


Kirk Bayne

Maybe that's why I like my Sansui 9001 QS decoder a teensy bit better than the Surround Master. The "synthesize" mode on the Sansui definitely sounds different than the regular QS and Involve modes when playing stereo sources and "faking" them into quad.

 

[barfle]

Way back when, I ran everything through my SQD1000, simply because I thought it was cool, or I was too lazy to switch it out.

So I synthesized surround, even if the input was mono from my TV.

My back amp had bass and treble controls, but they were dead center.

 

[kfbkfb]

(maybe derived surround sound would be a better description than fake surround)

IIRC, in another thread, it was reported that one DTS (matrix type decoding) fake surround mode did boost the bass some as compared to the stereo input, but that's the only recent case I know of.


Kirk Bayne

 

[MidiMagic]

I always thought that "it's fake surround" meant "you are using some system other than ours."

 

[jimfisheye]

Just distinguishing a mix created from a musician's hand (and ears) from something altered by an algorithm. That's not to say there aren't examples of an algorithm altered mix that turned out better than someone's best effort! (Shots fired! and all.) The lines are blurred if someone uses some algorithm tool on a mix element to get intentional results. But the idea is to celebrate mixes created by musicians as "real". And it's very much intended to be a little insulting to a mix that has been altered by an automated system! Because you just basically told someone that a machine made a better mix than they could.

 

[kfbkfb]

Because you just basically told someone that a machine made a better mix than they could.

Yes, it's a complicated issue, although I use Dolby Pro-Logic 2 music mode often, (IMHO) it rarely makes good fake/derived surround sound from various stereo sources (popular music - CDs, YouTube videos/audios, radio station streams), I like the simple Hafler/DynaQuad method best (I may be mentioning that too often...).


Kirk Bayne

 

[jaybird100]

I always thought that "it's fake surround" meant "you are using some system other than ours."

I prefer the term "derived surround".