Genesis 1970-1975 Nov.10/11 2008

[timbre4]

I got a reply in SIX minutes! Here's my email first:

Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 7:31 PM
To: Hurley, Robin
Subject: Genesis 1970-1975 Box Set: EMI Sez...


Robin, (if I may)

First, I offer keen appreciation for having been involved in so many DVD-Audio and/or special edition CD products I own. I'll be as brief as I can...

You might've been made aware by emails or calls that US Genesis fans are potentially being thwarted from acquiring the SACD/DVD (NTSC) version of the 1970-1975 box set in order to have the highest resolution available. Often times, heresay and rumor rush in to fill the space made available by an absence of truth and this is no exception.

It had been suggested weeks ago that Warner/Rhino was putting pressure on EMI UK to not supply competing product (import SACD/DVD NTSC) to the US CD/DVD version of the 1970-1975 box. I'd completely dismissed that notion completely out of hand. Today I read this quote posted on a US forum supplied from Gwen Lenton EMI UK:

"We do not have rights to exploit Genesis in the US or Canada, therefore we can not comment. Warner Brothers have Genesis in the US therefore the questions below should be directed to Robin Hurley at Warner."

Please confirm or deny this story is correct and in turn I'll work to post your comments in forums. If you've already published a statement on the matter somewhere, please advise where I may link to that.

OFF-TOPIC (but not quite)

In a perfect world, these Genesis boxes would've DVD-A packages issued thru Rhino; I do understand that Genesis and Nick Davis favor SACD but why a masters deal couldn't be struck to make DVD-A, I don't understand that. I bought Graham Nash's Songs for Beginners in the DVD-A/CD package a few weeks ago, so if the Warner, Elektra or Atlantic artist has a passion for 5.1 and/or DVD-A it CAN still happen. Sure hope the live Doors 5.1 releases (Aquarius liner notes) see the light of day.

You're a busy guy, I'll circle the wagons here and thank you for your time to read this.

Tim

Tim McDonnell
Surround Music + Genesis fan of 35 years

 

[timbre4]

Robin Hurley's reply:

From: Hurley, Robin
To: Tim McDonnell
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 7:37 PM
Subject: RE: Genesis 1970-1975 Box Set: EMI Sez...


Dear Tim,
Thank you for your note.

The situation is quite simple: Warner Music Group (Atlantic) have the rights to the Genesis albums in North America, and EMI have the rights in the rest of the world. We are not legally allowed to sell our product in EMI's territory, and vice-versa. We have not put any pressure on EMI not to supply competing product into the US; it is not necessary as EMI will not attempt to do that.

Best wishes,
Robin

 

[elroy]

I could handle a delay, but to be told outright I can't have it at all, that's a whole new mood swing. I didn't give any creedence to the thought that Rhino & Atlantic could bring pressure to bear, not I'm at least entertaining it. I will address this question with ex-DVD-A supporter Robin Hurley soon.

The DTS DVDs sound great, but I'm really put out on principle here. I'm going to hunker down and wait for better news before buying the PAL version that Virgin has no problem proliferating.

Ever see Ragtime? I'm Coathouse Walker and I want this matter made right. It's not right...it's insane. :flame

I don't want to set you off any more...but I believe it's "Coalhouse"!

I'm now tiptoeing away very gingerly...

 

[decrink]

Robin Hurley's reply:

From: Hurley, Robin
To: Tim McDonnell
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 7:37 PM
Subject: RE: Genesis 1970-1975 Box Set: EMI Sez...


Dear Tim,
Thank you for your note.

The situation is quite simple: Warner Music Group (Atlantic) have the rights to the Genesis albums in North America, and EMI have the rights in the rest of the world. We are not legally allowed to sell our product in EMI's territory, and vice-versa. We have not put any pressure on EMI not to supply competing product into the US; it is not necessary as EMI will not attempt to do that.

Best wishes,
Robin

Oh right. It's quite simple is it? Then why doesn't Warner (Atlantic) sell the best format available (SACD in my opinion). Then we will buy it. With money. THAT seems quite simple.

 

[elevation1975]

Thanks for contacting Robin, Tim. Very helpful.

Couple of things...

1) A seller on Amazon.com's Japanese site has one copy of the SACD/NTSC set for sale. Good luck trying to acquire it. My suggestion is to set your browser to translate the page and go from there. He is willing to sell it off of Amazon's site and has a very good feedback rating. Check it out here (ASIN #B001CBW1B2)...

http://www.amazon.co.jp/Genesis-197...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1233617821&sr=8-2

2) I don't think there is any way the SACD/NTSC boxes will be reprinted. It's a simple matter of supply and demand, regardless of what EMI, Warner, Gwen Lenton, Robin Hurley, or anyone else says. A line of box sets will not be manufactured just for a couple of surround-hungry Genesis fans. Like I noted before, I'm combining both the PAL and Rhino sets to make my own. The special "Do-It-Yourself" Edition.

3) Elusive Disc has taken the SACD/NTSC 70-75 off its virtual shelves. Those of you with pre-orders there should be getting confirmation emails of that shortly.

4) There is indeed another SACD/NTSC 1970-1975 box set that has just been released in Japan by EMI. Like the previous two boxes, this one houses the mini LP replica/paper sleeve editions of the albums. However, it's nearly double in price, much more "limited," and does not include the extras discs. There are some on eBay right now. Like this one...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220354417424

 

[timbre4]

I don't want to set you off any more...but I believe it's "Coalhouse"!

I'm now tiptoeing away very gingerly...

No worries, thanks for the correction. Glad the reference was picked up on!

 

[timbre4]

1) A seller on Amazon.com's Japanese site has one copy of the SACD/NTSC set for sale.

Thanks, saw that. PASS.

2) I don't think there is any way the SACD/NTSC boxes will be reprinted. It's a simple matter of supply and demand

I have to take issue with this assessement for the following reasons:

A) Knowing that worldwide demand for the PG box, do you think the mfg quantity for 1970-1975 was merely the same as 1976-1982 & 1983-1998? If so it was a fast sellout and a reason to repress to meet DEMAND. It would be foolish to not make more of what people want!

B) Why do we see plenty of 1976-1982 & 1983-1998 boxes? Were those initial mfg figures set too high? Have they been pressed more than once? Does anybody know for sure? Were softer sales on 1983-1998 a factor?

Ficticious numbers for argument sake that all boxes had same mfg #s:
1976-1982 pressed 500,000 NTSC units 18 months ago - 100,000 out there
1983-1998 pressed 500,000 NTSC units 12 months ago - 300,000 out there
1970-1975 pressed 500,000 NTSC units 03 months ago - these are ALL gone?

It just doesn't add up; if they sold all 1970-1975 boxes THAT quick, demand is surely not a problem. Did they mfg less?

C) Surely the band has their latter day success in perspective as compared to the landmark early material that diehards (fools like me) and willing to recognize that fans worldwide would clamor to get that 1970-1975 box in the SACD/DVD NTSC configuration? If they saw the 1983-1998 box as being the best seller of the three, I'd be shocked.

3) Elusive Disc has taken the SACD/NTSC 70-75 off its virtual shelves. Those of you with pre-orders there should be getting confirmation emails of that shortly.

I bought both previous boxes from them, fully expected to do it once again.

4) There is indeed another SACD/NTSC 1970-1975 box set that has just been released in Japan by EMI. Like the previous two boxes, this one houses the mini LP replica/paper sleeve editions of the albums.

Okay so maybe EMI UK has packed up the tent. Watch the Japanese market; these $450 paper sleeve version boxes will run their course and THEN another variation will appear. I suspect this will be a repress of the NTSC version.

I should be quiet and just buy the Rhino box like many diehards did because THEY DIDN'T KNOW about it! That's the rub; I KNOW. It's very important to me, this Genesis and Crimson stuff. Please don't fuck it up labels!

Kirk out

 

[peterzach]

Well I finally ordered the boxset from Amazon.uk(the Sacd\Pal version) last night and have given up on my Aug.18 Amazon.ca order for the Sad Boxset.
I would have preferred the Sacd/Ntsc boxset but I figure even if they do make more copies down the road, its still a import and will come in at import prices and how much longer will I have to wait(I'm not getting any younger). The Sacd\Pal version will not be costing me any more than the domestic Rhino version.
Most of us at this site love surround music(isn't that why we hang out here) and will buy the best version possible. To me why would I buy the Rhino version when it doesn't have Dvd Audio on it. They could have put it out in Dvd Audio, they didn't so Emi Europe will get my support.
Thanks to some feedback from some US members on importing into Usa I have ordered the following from amazon.uk and having sent to my sister's place in Arizona as I'm visiting her in less than 6 weeks. The following is costing less than $100 pounds shipped:
Genesis 1970-1975 Sacd
Graham Nash-Songs for Beginners Dvda
Talking Heads-Naked Dvda
Moody Blues-Children's Children Sacd

Its to bad we couldn't get a accurate count of how many of the Sacd Boxsets have been purchased by North Americans and send that information to Rob Hurley and say, "you could have had those sales".

 

[sKiZo]

I just couldn't take it anymore ... I can live with PAL ... I'd have a hard time dealing with not getting either if the Euro market were to dry up.
Which wouldna surprise me any what with all the other annoyances associated with this release.

So, AMAZON. UK it is ... <click>

Genesis - 1970-1975: 1970-1975/+6dvd [SACD] [Box set] [Enhanced] [Hybrid SACD]

$107.33 (US dollars) Shipped.

So, Hurley ... if you were just jerkin' my chain and waiting for me to get off da effin bubble, go ahead and release the NTSC boxes ya got stockpiled in warehouses coast to coast for the US market ... ya sorry sack o' <mumble mumble>

Colehouse Walker move over ... I guess I got issues too. <G>

 

[elevation1975]

zorknapp1 (Mike, Genesis-Web Content Editor) is "trying to work something out" in getting the SACD/NTSC 1970-1975 boxes available to purchase for those still interested. Check out his new thread and respond, if you so desire...

http://www.genesis-music.com/members/community/mboard/index.php?topic=22778.0

 

[SoonerCaniac]

zorknapp1 (Mike, Genesis-Web Content Editor) is "trying to work something out" in getting the SACD/NTSC 1970-1975 boxes available to purchase for those still interested. Check out his new thread and respond, if you so desire...

http://www.genesis-music.com/members/community/mboard/index.php?topic=22778.0

Nicely done Josh (didn't realize we had the same name!)...thank you for pointing this out. I don't frequent the Genesis site much anymore, but I also put my 2 cents in. I've been far removed from the forum for maybe too long, but unless I'm missing something, only subscribed (paying) members can post, correct?

This information should also be posted over at Stevehoffman.tv where several are also upset about the whole situation. If you don't mind, I'm going to go ahead just to keep folks informed.

Thanks again,
Josh

 

[SoonerCaniac]

If I am correct and non-members cannot post over there (or if you don't want the hassle of another forum account for one thread), I offered at Stevehoffman.tv to send names along if folks were interested. I am already getting a few responses. I would be happy to do the same over here at QQ if folks are interested. I am sure elevation1975 would gladly do the same. The more names the better. Just post here or send me a PM.

Thanks,
Josh

 

[elevation1975]

If I am correct and non-members cannot post over there (or if you don't want the hassle of another forum account for one thread), I offered at Stevehoffman.tv to send names along if folks were interested. I am already getting a few responses. I would be happy to do the same over here at QQ if folks are interested. I am sure elevation1975 would gladly do the same. The more names the better. Just post here or send me a PM.

No problem. I'm planning on keeping the Genesis forum informed of what's discussed here.

 

[elevation1975]

For anyone here who is unable, or unwilling, to post over at the Genesis forums, let me know if you'd be willing to purchase an SACD/NTSC 70-75 box set if they became available from the official website. I will then post your responses and user names for the people in charge to see.

- Josh

 

[decrink]

For anyone here who is unable, or unwilling, to post over at the Genesis forums, let me know if you'd be willing to purchase an SACD/NTSC 70-75 box set if they became available from the official website. I will then post your responses and user names for the people in charge to see.

- Josh

I've ordered the PAL version but might be open to the NTSC if available and the PAL doesn't show well on my DVD player. I didn't want to spend $35 to read the Genesis forums for premium members however.

 

[timbre4]

I paid to re-join the Genesis forum today as I should've done long ago. (was a member before it was fee based)

You can be certain I put my name into the thread that wants SACD + NTSC DVD boxes! Maybe it's dawning on somebody that the market was under-serviced, whatever the reason, I'm glad to see some effort to get past inertia.

 

[elevation1975]

This email was sent out last night by the president of Elusive Disc...

Dear Customers,

This email is to detail the unavailability of the Genesis Box 3 SACD/NTSC DVDs. This 3rd box has been a complete Enigma!(The first 2 were difficult but nothing like this one) We have spent more time and looking for this set and answering emails about than the search for the Titanic!(Not really but it seems like it) We have been continually told by various suppliers that we would receive this box but we did not. We finally got word very recently from EMI UK(thanks to help from some of our SACD customers) that no more of this version will be made and we nor any other vendor will receive them. The source of this problem is the fact that EMI controls Genesis catalog outside the USA and WEA/Rhino controls them in the US. WEA/Rhino does not want to make sacds(a real bummer!) for some reason so they have released this CD version with NTSC DVDs.
See link below: http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=WEACD79903

The SACD Box with NTSC DVDs was only made by EMI for the Japanese Market(Main country that uses NTSC besides the USA. In this case they(EMI/WEA not sure which) have done an incredible job making sure none of this version got sent to USA retailers. They only place we ever say this box for sale was out of Japan and at a retail price only.

There is a 3rd version of Box 3 that has SACD and PAL DVDs. For some strange reason these have become available is the USA. See link below:
http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=VIRSAMIPBOX3

At this point these are the only 2 options for this set so we have taken the SACD/NTSC version of our website and will be canceling all orders placed for this set.(This email will be the only notification and confirmation of your order for this item being cancelled. This will take us a day or two to do so please be patient if it shows up in your order status. Also if you had requested to be pre-billed for this item you will receive the credit and a notification thereof.) We have never seen such a sad situation on a product like this before and hope to never again! Our sincere apologies for not being able to obtain this set for all those who ordered it! I know this has been a frustrating experience for all of us. We would have never advertised this product if we had not been promised we would get it. There would be no point in such a thing.

If by some miracle this item ever does show up magically we will make it known only when we have it in our hands. In closing I would like to that all our customers that helped us sort this mess out!(You know who you are)

Thank you!
Bob Bantz/President Elusive Disc
4020 Frontage Rd
Anderson, IN 46013
Webstore: http://www.elusivedisc.com
Email: mailto:[email protected]
Toll Free Orders: 800-782-3472
Info or International orders: 765-608-5340
Fax: 765-608-5341

 

[kvsawilson]

For those of us that aren't into Genesis enough to buy the whole box set but would like to try one or two of them, have these discs (either sacd or DTS) ever become available individually? I've tried looking for them but haven't found them if they are available. Maybe as an import? (I'm in the US)

Thanks
K

 

[sKiZo]

We have spent more time and looking for this set and answering emails about than the search for the Titanic

Least they could have done was offer to send the SACD Titanic soundtrack to compensate for our pain ...

About like I'd figured tho ... now everybody rush to get the PAL version and see how quick we can dry that up ... <G>

 

[elevation1975]

In regards to my previous post(s), Mike at the official site is trying to get an accurate count of Genesis forum members who are interested in purchasing the SACD/NTSC box. If it ever becomes available again, it looks like it will be a "members only" type of deal. Makes sense, I guess...


From zorknapp1 (Mike):
"I'll report what I've heard so far, but honestly, I think this initiative was just for members here, I appreciate that people on other forums may want this box, but this is something we *might* be able to do for people here."