Genesis 1970-1975 Nov.10/11 2008

[SoonerCaniac]

That's true. When Gwen told me that I responded, "well, does that mean they're never going to be printed again or is there a chance that they will?" She couldn't answer that. I just really want to find someone that can.

I completely understand where you are coming from and I agree - it would be nice to know definitively that it's over. The other thing we can do is monitor ElusiveDisc, for example (http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=VIRSAMINBOX3), and see if they ever get additional information about availability or even receive stock.

If that's the case, you would think they'd want to post them for sale online and make serious dough. I guess it's further proof that so few were made - you cannot find them anywhere. This could also point to the extremely low demand of SACDs and extremely low interest by the record companies to produce them.

Who knows for sure, I'm certainly not saying there are thousands sitting around out there. In this case, we could watch eBay and see what pops up, but how long and how much time are we willing to invest sitting around instead of enjoying what we can get our hands on? Everyone's answer is different.

I can't wait to see what happens with the live box set they're currently working on. I bet there's a good chance those won't even be formatted for SACD.

LOL, my head aches just thinking about it! @:
Josh

 

[timbre4]

Glad to some tenacious efforts to secure this incredible item, perhaps the crown jewel of all the catalog work. It also happens to be what US fans of 35 years should have the opportunity to buy. What was the original manufacturing quantity? Do we think it was LESS than the other two boxes? They seem far from sold out and readily available at good prices.

I submit that the SACD/DVD NTSC version was never replicated anywhere near the quantity of the other two boxes. Because if they made as many as the previous two Genesis boxes, it was a sellout SMASH HIT and therefore quite commercially viable!

I'd planned to call Richard O'Brien tomorrow to as briefly, and constructively, ask when USA fans (many of more than three decades) would properly be able to purchase the BEST version that *should* be available for their home market?

The larger question, and maybe this is the key to getting what we want, does anyone at the band level know what an absolute clusterfuck this situation is? Wouldn't Tony Banks shake his head and say this was unacceptable?

I can buy the PAL version and play them but something is just terribly wrong and EMI, Virgin, Charisma, Hit & Run Mgmt and GENESIS need to address this situation. I specifically leave Atlantic/Rhino out of that list because if they'd had the foresight and testicular fortitude it takes, this would have been a DOMESTIC DVD-AUDIO release in the first place!

Let's keep up the pressure to get the answer we want.

 

[elevation1975]

Josh -

I'm ticked off that I waited and now will not have a consistent SACD/NTSC DVD collection. A very minor issue in the grand game of life, but at the moment it just irritates me to no end.

... think of it this way: anyone with an inconsistent collection is part of history. Someone is going to ask you in 30 years, "how come you have two SACD/NTSC boxes and one SACD/PAL box?" And you'll respond, "I had to buy the PAL box around the time the global economy was destroyed and these weird SACD things weren't selling that well."

The other thing we can do is monitor ElusiveDisc

They don't know much. I even offered to help them out. I basically told Gwen I was calling on behalf of them, which is more or less true. I did this all on my day off. What an interesting and unproductive day that was.

Timbre4 -

I second your sentiments! Let us know if/when you receive a response from the EMI people. I, of course, will do the same.

 

[BananaSlug]

What would be the final cost be if people bought the sacd/PAL set and the NA NTSC DVD-V set and merged them into a sacd/NTSC set? You could then sell off the PAL discs. Just a thought...

 

[DennisMabry]

Well, I just ordered the SACD / PAL version from Amazon.co.uk. I can play the PAL DVD's on my Oppo. I can't see paying the huge difference to get the NTSC set, even if it was available. The music quality is my goal and since I don't have DTS 96/24 (yet) only core DTS. I think this is my best option.

Dennis

 

[elevation1975]

What would be the final cost be if people bought the sacd/PAL set and the NA NTSC DVD-V set and merged them into a sacd/NTSC set? You could then sell off the PAL discs. Just a thought...

If purchasing from Amazon.co.uk, Americans pay approximately $108. And the Rhino boxes in the U.S. can be bought for under a hundred. So really, the total cost for both is not even $200. I think the pain in the ass part of all of this, and I'm speaking for myself (although I'm sure others feel the same), is that we want a consistent collection of the three boxes. If it's true that the SACD/NTSC boxes are long gone, then it might make sense to combine.

 

[SoonerCaniac]

Josh -
... think of it this way: anyone with an inconsistent collection is part of history. Someone is going to ask you in 30 years, "how come you have two SACD/NTSC boxes and one SACD/PAL box?" And you'll respond, "I had to buy the PAL box around the time the global economy was destroyed and these weird SACD things weren't selling that well."

LOL! How proud we can be! Wait until we tell our grandchildren!

They don't know much. I even offered to help them out. I basically told Gwen I was calling on behalf of them, which is more or less true. I did this all on my day off. What an interesting and unproductive day that was.

Well, unproductive or not, we all appreciate your efforts very much.

I second your sentiments! Let us know if/when you receive a response from the EMI people. I, of course, will do the same.

As will I. While I was e-mailing, I went ahead and made another pitch for SACD and surround sound in general and used my usual "find a way to take a dedicated but small consumer base and make it profitable for goodness sakes #$&^@#^%" angle. I was far nicer than that, though.

 

[SoonerCaniac]

What would be the final cost be if people bought the sacd/PAL set and the NA NTSC DVD-V set and merged them into a sacd/NTSC set? You could then sell off the PAL discs. Just a thought...

Definitely an option; I will only do this if I can get the Rhino set at a really cheap price, maybe even used but like new. It would have worked out cheaper for me to just get the set from HMV Japan because I accumulated several thousand Yen in member discounts. Dennis is correct too, it is about the music and I can play PAL DVDs too. But, like some of us have been saying, it was the collector in all of us that lusted after the complete SACD/NTSC DVD set, even if it is unnecessary in the grand scheme of things.

 

[decrink]

OK, I've thought about this long and hard and I'm just going to wait till someone posts the whole batch of Genesis 1970-1975 on 128bit Mp3's and YouTube videos. Then I will have the whole set for free. I can download it to my Ipod-like player and listen blissfully in crap-sound. That'll teach those record companies a lesson and when I tell the tale to my grandchildren about how vinyl begat 8-track begat cassette begat Beta begat VHS begat video disc begat CD begat DVD begat DVR begat Bluetooth begat vinyl begat mp3/YouTube they will understand Genesis to Revelation. I'm happy to be a part of the great turning.

 

[peterzach]

peterzach - I'm the one who has been posting on the Genesis forums and who you quoted above (that I also included below). Thanks for copying it over here.

I've been lurking on this thread for a few days now and I figured I'd join in on the discussion, especially since I've been in direct (telephone and email) contact with the folks at EMI who [sort of] have answers about the future of the 1970-1975 SACD/NTSC set.

The latest update is indeed what peterzach quoted. Nothing further really to report. I imagine we'll all have a definitive answer some time in the next few days and we can put this topic to rest.

I also assume other people have sent emails to Richard O'Brien and Gwen Lenton (her email is [email protected]), which I think would motivate them even more to respond to us. Ms. Lenton is the one who is more willing to email you back, while Richard is a little more difficult to get a hold of.

I suggest we keep bugging them until we get a straight answer. The whole "not commercially viable to do so" excuse isn't good enough for me and I prefer to hear something a little more concrete.

Welcome to this forum, glad that you joined in the discussion. There are a few bigtime Genesis fans at this site and this is a great place to find out stuff about all different types of surround music and I have learned alot here and have gotten some great tips on what are the really good surround releases to try and find.
I did as well send emails to gwen and richard so thanks for posting that.

peter

 

[elevation1975]

Below is an email I just received from Gwen Lenton at EMI regarding the unavailability of the SACD/NTSC 70-75 sets. Can you believe this crap?!...

"We do not have rights to exploit Genesis in the US or Canada, therefore we can not comment. Warner Brothers have Genesis in the US therefore the questions below should be directed to Robin Hurley at Warner."

Someone get me this Robin Hurley on the line!

 

[daved64]

You guys should save yourself all the headaches and just get the Rhino version. The DTS sounds great.

 

[decrink]

Below is an email I just received from Gwen Lenton at EMI regarding the unavailability of the SACD/NTSC 70-75 sets. Can you believe this crap?!...

"We do not have rights to exploit Genesis in the US or Canada, therefore we can not comment. Warner Brothers have Genesis in the US therefore the questions below should be directed to Robin Hurley at Warner."

Someone get me this Robin Hurley on the line!

Why, I got the exact same note:
We do not have rights to exploit Genesis in the US or Canada, therefore we can not comment. Warner brothers have Genesis in the US theirfore the questions below should be directed to Robin Hurley at Warners.

Find Robin!

Oh, at the same time I also got an email that my SACD/PAL has shipped from AmazonUK. Maybe the wait is finally over.

 

[Guy Robinson]

You guys should save yourself all the headaches and just get the Rhino version. The DTS sounds great.

I agree 100% but some people can't do the DTS 96/24 and others want the SACD just from a collector's point of view. Those are the only 2 reasons I can think of for not going for the Rhino instead.

 

[peterzach]

Below is an email I just received from Gwen Lenton at EMI regarding the unavailability of the SACD/NTSC 70-75 sets. Can you believe this crap?!...

"We do not have rights to exploit Genesis in the US or Canada, therefore we can not comment. Warner Brothers have Genesis in the US therefore the questions below should be directed to Robin Hurley at Warner."

Someone get me this Robin Hurley on the line!

I got the same answer(came in at 09:17 am in my Outlook), this is a crap indeed.
Did a google on Rob Hurley and one of first hits comes across him talking about how great Dvd Audio's sound(article was a 2003 one).
Lots of laughs on that one as far as what Rhino is doing now with only putting out DD or Dts if anything at all.

Dave and Guy, it would indeed save headaches getting the Rhino but I know you are both not fan's of what was done to 1976-82 & 83-98 box's mastering but I have tested the sacd to dts on those and sacd's definitely sound better to my ears(I agree with you guys that mastering could have been better but it is what it is). Based on that and some other reports where people say the sacd's are the ones to get for this Boxset as well. I'm sure both of you wouldn't settle for anything less if it was some of your favorite records to listen to of all time.
If they had put Dvd Audio as a option for the Rhino version I don't think any of us would be doing all this extra leg work trying to track down the Sacd's.

peter

 

[SoonerCaniac]

Why, I got the exact same note.

Ditto...just checked my e-mail.

Oh, at the same time I also got an email that my SACD/PAL has shipped from AmazonUK

Ditto too!
Some good news, some bad news. Batting .500 today.

 

[elevation1975]

Well, I'm dropping it. Enough is enough. Ordered both the EU PAL and Rhino editions for less than $200 and will combine. Maybe they'll be special collector's items some day ("The Genesis 1970-1975 Super Deluxe Obsessive Compulsive Euro/Rhino Collector's SACD/NTSC Edition").

And guess what!... a seller in Japan is selling an SACD/NTSC box in Amazon Japan's Marketplace. Amazon doesn't allow North American buyers to order from there to ship to the U.S., but the seller is willing to sell the box privately (it's a little bit out of my price range). The correct UPC points to the item page, so I'm pretty sure it's the right box. Check it out and good luck!...

http://www.amazon.co.jp/Genesis-197...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1233617821&sr=8-2

 

[timbre4]

I could handle a delay, but to be told outright I can't have it at all, that's a whole new mood swing. I didn't give any creedence to the thought that Rhino & Atlantic could bring pressure to bear, not I'm at least entertaining it. I will address this question with ex-DVD-A supporter Robin Hurley soon.

The DTS DVDs sound great, but I'm really put out on principle here. I'm going to hunker down and wait for better news before buying the PAL version that Virgin has no problem proliferating.

Ever see Ragtime? I'm Coalhouse Walker and I want this matter made right. It's not right...it's insane. :flame

 

[BananaSlug]

It ain't easy these days. The few discs they produce are near on impossible to actually get your hands on.

 

[timbre4]

I calmly wrote to Robin Hurley; he's got so many DVD-A credits after all. I'll post what happens.