Guns N‘ Roses - Appetite For Destruction Locked N’ Loaded Edition

[Bill Houston]

I applaud your optimism that we are even going to be offered these surround box sets in 5 years...given the recent decisions concerning the disc format...

What, has 5.1 music managed to curse the blu-ray disc format as well, bringing it to a premature end? Are you speaking to downloads? This release will make money. The bean counter will want to continue to make money. Maybe the Illusion box will be 5.1 downloads instead.

 

[markshan]

Appetite in 5.1. Hmm.... as much as I love new surround releases, AFD is not the first album I’d pick if I was to choose one freely. Stereo wise I appreciate this however. Even though I’m a bit sceptical to AFD in surround, if someone could pull this off it’s Elliot.

That's what I thought about the Skynyrd, but it's great. We will see. I'm very optimistic.

 

[markshan]

It hasn't happened here, really, but finally being on the side of the "definite buyers", and I suppose "hardcore fans", something has just really clicked for me about why music in surround/high-res doesn't sell.

On another forum, where there is a particularly long thread about this release (currently over 700 posts), a conservative estimate is that 30-40% are complaining about the price, not of the Locked N' Loaded Edition (US $999) but of the Super Deluxe Edition ($179).

For me, as a fan of this band and album, it is extremely deflating to see so much negativity already, well before anyone has gotten their sets, and well before anyone has even heard 99% of the music on offer.

If pointing out that the Legend set had a CD, Blu-Ray and booklet for under $30 bogarts your jones, then you really weren't all that excited about this to begin with. Isn't that the great thing about capitalism? One person sets a price and the other decides if they wish to pay it or not. Simple.

 

[4-earredwonder]

I applaud your optimism that we are even going to be offered these surround box sets in 5 years...given the recent decisions concerning the disc format...

But somehow, Clint, we have to be optimistic. It seems Universal has taken the BIG BOX SET route for their 5.1 releases whereas their Classical Division [DGG/PHILIPS/DECCA] IS releasing 'generous' BD~As at low prices [consistent with the philosophy that Classical releases have an even smaller niche market].

Hopefully, Dutton Vocalion IS on a roll with their QUAD SACD releases but as we have NO idea how their SACDs are selling, we should expect MORE from them in the NEAR future.

By 2020, I do anticipate a curtailment of ALL physical disc releases but so far it seems the MAJORS are 'content' with licensing their STEREO hi res masters to HD Tracks, Apple Music and a bunch of other Music download sites but, IMO, the real profit would be setting up their own indigenous download sites to maximize profits....and so far that isn't happening.

It is PAINFULLY rueful that only a smidgen of surround releases are available when one thinks of how many multi millions of albums across ALL genres will never be released in surround. But it's a very sad reality we all have to face!

 

[markshan]

What, has 5.1 music managed to curse the blu-ray disc format as well, bringing it to a premature end? Are you speaking to downloads? This release will make money. The bean counter will want to continue to make money. Maybe the Illusion box will be 5.1 downloads instead.

Are there 5.1 mixes in the can for those? Don't hold your breath waiting for someone to do new mixes.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Are there 5.1 mixes in the can for those? Don't hold your breath waiting for someone to do new mixes.

Probably NOT [at present] but I'm sure Universal/G'nR will take a wait and see approach as to how well this box set sells......but at these prices, who knows?

 

[ubertrout]

Are there 5.1 mixes in the can for those? Don't hold your breath waiting for someone to do new mixes.

According to I think Slash's book, UYI was originally intended to be in surround, although who knows how serious it was. I don't think a 5.1 mix is in the can, but I also don't think it's that unrealistic that they'd make one.

Bands have a couple of different ways to go with box sets. You can take the direction Metallica took with the Master of Puppets box and include lots of live recordings and rough stuff. If you don't want to do that, a 5.1 mix is a way to raise the price of the box set for not terribly much money - I wouldn't be shocked to see it done a bit more with BD-Audio as a generally usable format.

 

[4-earredwonder]

According to I think Slash's book, UYI was originally intended to be in surround, although who knows how serious it was. I don't think a 5.1 mix is in the can, but I also don't think it's that unrealistic that they'd make one.

Bands have a couple of different ways to go with box sets. You can take the direction Metallica took with the Master of Puppets box and include lots of live recordings and rough stuff. If you don't want to do that, a 5.1 mix is a way to raise the price of the box set for not terribly much money - I wouldn't be shocked to see it done a bit more with BD-Audio as a generally usable format.

I know it's a MOOT point: But I still maintain that ALL these box sets should eventually oversee a separate release of the 5.1 remix on BD~A once the initial box set runs are exhausted. Imagine the Sales?

For a generation weened on FREE music, these artists/Majors are neglecting a huge part of the record buying public who can't afford to drive a Maserati!!!!!!!!!

 

[markshan]

According to I think Slash's book, UYI was originally intended to be in surround, although who knows how serious it was. I don't think a 5.1 mix is in the can, but I also don't think it's that unrealistic that they'd make one.

Bands have a couple of different ways to go with box sets. You can take the direction Metallica took with the Master of Puppets box and include lots of live recordings and rough stuff. If you don't want to do that, a 5.1 mix is a way to raise the price of the box set for not terribly much money - I wouldn't be shocked to see it done a bit more with BD-Audio as a generally usable format.

I hope you are right. It seems to me that very few classic recordings are getting new 5.1 mixes.

 

[kap'n krunch]

Whoa...interesting... all the "controversy" this boxset has generated...IN THIS usually peaceful forum!
But..
I'll have to agree with LennonCobain.. being a SURROUND ENTHUSIAST is a VERY EXPENSIVE hobby!!!!

I might even get this, once the prices comes down...bought this on cd when it came out,,,sold it for "beer money" a few years later....and if ES did the mix , it probably is really good....

 

[sjcorne]

Very exciting news! I too am curious if this mix was recently done or if its been in the can for a while.

I remember reading an old thread about UMG releasing over a 100 MCH SACDs around 2004-5, none of which came out. This could've been one of those...

found it: https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/index.php?threads/umg-future-sacd-release-page-gone.4304/

 

[McCrutchy]

If pointing out that the Legend set had a CD, Blu-Ray and booklet for under $30 bogarts your jones, then you really weren't all that excited about this to begin with. Isn't that the great thing about capitalism? One person sets a price and the other decides if they wish to pay it or not. Simple.

At the risk of sounding like a complete idiot, I assume you're referencing the Bob Marley Legend 30th Anniversary Blu-ray Audio re-release from 2014 (which added a 5.1 mix, CD and booklet to the existing stereo BD-A released in 2013), but beyond that, I'm afraid you've lost me. What wasn't I all that excited about?

 

[markshan]

At the risk of sounding like a complete idiot, I assume you're referencing the Bob Marley Legend 30th Anniversary Blu-ray Audio re-release from 2014 (which added a 5.1 mix, CD and booklet to the existing stereo BD-A released in 2013), but beyond that, I'm afraid you've lost me. What wasn't I all that excited about?

Yes, that one. You said that price discussions were limiting your excitement for the GnR box.

Oh, and I certainly hope I didn't make you feel as though I was calling you an idiot. If I did, I sincerely apologize.

 

[Snood]

Surround mix is by Elliot Scheider. Super Deluxe Digital Version is $180 and includes the following on the BD-A:

1 Blu-ray Audio Disc:

• New 96kHz 24-bit 5.1 Surround Sound Mixes from Original Analog Multi-tracks
• Original Album Mixed by Elliot Scheiner
• 5 Bonus Tracks Mixed by Elliot Scheiner & Frank Filipetti
• All songs feature brand new animations
• 4 Original Music Videos in 5.1
• Unreleased 1989 “It’s So Easy” Video in 5.1

The "Locked N' Loaded" set is $1,000.

Surround mix is by Elliot Scheider. Super Deluxe Digital Version is $180 and includes the following on the BD-A:

1 Blu-ray Audio Disc:

• New 96kHz 24-bit 5.1 Surround Sound Mixes from Original Analog Multi-tracks
• Original Album Mixed by Elliot Scheiner
• 5 Bonus Tracks Mixed by Elliot Scheiner & Frank Filipetti
• All songs feature brand new animations
• 4 Original Music Videos in 5.1
• Unreleased 1989 “It’s So Easy” Video in 5.1

The "Locked N' Loaded" set is $1,000.

Just want to make sure that is Elliot Scheiner correct?? not some close to but not some knock off close to clone name?? Because if it is Elliot Scheiner, how the ph u ck did we not already know about this?? Scheiner mix on GNR AFD - Holy SHEEEET - snood all in now.....well not the 1000 all in but still - who said this year was starting off slow??

GNR and ANIMALS in less than 2 WEEEEKS..........again you all are welcome and you know what Snood is talking about!!!!! Tell em Jon!

 

[McCrutchy]

Yes, that one. You said that price discussions were limiting your excitement for the GnR box.

Oh, and I certainly hope I didn't make you feel as though I was calling you an idiot. If I did, I sincerely apologize.

Not at all.

And just to be clear, I am dismayed about the number of complaints only because they seem to happen almost immediately after a release like this is announced, and then continue on for weeks and/or months until the release comes out and then finally takes a massive dive in price. It often feels like "pre-criticism" of a release without low pricing dominates discussion, often to the detriment of fan enthusiasm for the release. I just have to believe that now, in 2018, artists and record company personnel are aware of these kinds of comments, and I wonder if some products, like unreleased 5.1 mixes, continue to languish in vaults partly because the major releases that do come out always seem to attract the kind of complaints I was talking about.

This wasn't something I thought about carefully until I was in the camp of people who were/are very excited for one of these "Super Deluxe" releases that come with high-res physical media. Usually, I found myself siding with the complainants, as with, for example, the Pink Floyd Immersion boxes, or the King Crimson boxes, because with those releases, I often only wanted the Blu-ray Discs, and nothing else. I like Pink Floyd quite a bit, but in both cases I don't know or love that music enough to pay hundreds to get the high-res disc(s) I would have wanted. However, in the case of Appetite for Destruction, that is one of my top five albums, if not my absolute favorite, so not only did I immediately pre-order the Super Deluxe Edition as soon as it was available, and before the official announcement, but I was more than ready to cancel and buy the wooden box in order to get the Blu-ray (or perhaps even just more CD of additional music) if I had to.

Of course, we can all say that "everyone" has those releases that they are willing to pay big bucks for, but actually being confronted with one is an interesting experience, to say the least, especially for someone like me who is much more film-literate than music-literate.

 

[markshan]

No matter how big a fan you are, it seems to me that it is at least reasonable to feel that four discs of thirty year old material for $180 is excessive, or at the very least, demonstrably higher than the market average. I have no issue with anyone paying it. I have no issue with anyone not paying it. My issue with your post was that it made it seem as though someone's opinion is given as an affront to your opinion. As if the point of the posts were to troll the people willing to spend that money. Perhaps some even were, but I just wanted to say that I find it completely reasonable to have the conversation.

Do you think the makers of Lamborghini or Ferrari worry that people complaining about the price of their cars will cut into their business? Hardly. The fact that only a few can afford them is part of their cachet. Perhaps that is what they are going for here. It certainly seems to be with the $1000 box.

 

[fredblue]

Very exciting news! I too am curious if this mix was recently done or if its been in the can for a while.

I remember reading an old thread about UMG releasing over a 100 MCH SACDs around 2004-5, none of which came out. This could've been one of those...

found it: https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/index.php?threads/umg-future-sacd-release-page-gone.4304/

150 MCH SACDs.. I could weep!

a few have slipped out in the years since (Bob Marley "Legend", Bryan Adams' "Reckless", Lynyrd Skynyrd..) and I imagine one or two of the Universal DualDiscs were originally slated to be SACD (incl. maybe a couple of Bon Jovi's) but just thinking of those we do know about that never came to be (the Elton's, Killers "Hot Fuss", Maroon 5 "Songs About Jane", the Steely Dan's..) i'll bet there are some incredible things in surround, like Scheiner's "Appetite For Destruction", just sitting around.. and thinking what might have been if some or all of these titles had made it to retail, would it have helped boost Surround/SACDs fortunes or just prolonged the agony a bit.. hmm..

i don't know about 'locked and loaded', there's over a hundred MultiCh mixes in UMe's vault 'unloved and unreleased'..! let's start a petition!

 

[Robert van Diggele]

Not at all.

And just to be clear, I am dismayed about the number of complaints only because they seem to happen almost immediately after a release like this is announced, and then continue on for weeks and/or months until the release comes out and then finally takes a massive dive in price. It often feels like "pre-criticism" of a release without low pricing dominates discussion, often to the detriment of fan enthusiasm for the release. I just have to believe that now, in 2018, artists and record company personnel are aware of these kinds of comments, and I wonder if some products, like unreleased 5.1 mixes, continue to languish in vaults partly because the major releases that do come out always seem to attract the kind of complaints I was talking about.

I doubt the records companies think like this. Why would they keep a finished products innthe vault when people are not happy with a high price point of certain box sets?

If I was working at a record company and had any influence I would take the compaints and say: " Listen, we have all these dvda ISOs in the vault. Work was done and paid for. Keeping them in the vault earns us nothing, putting them in expensive box sets earns us x. Releasing them in a cd/bda combo earns us y and offering them as download ( ISO plus flac) earns us z". I hardly doubt any sane executive would then say, Nah lets keep them in the vault because people will complain about high box set prices.

When these are offered as downloads, while they get on torrent sites? Yes, but that is already happening with a lot of physical releases. I am NOT endorsing this, only stating facts.

IMO the record companies are losing tons of money with keeping the finished products in the vaults. Their and our loss. I could be wrong of course but when these vault mixes are available for download at a €15-€20 price point each they will sell a lot. Maybe even a subsciption service to het more at a discounted price?

Steve, @ForagingRhino . What are your thoughts on this? If you are allowed to speak on this of course. I dont want to get you into hot water. Thanks if you could add your thoughts to this.

 

[Robert van Diggele]

150 MCH SACDs.. I could weep!

a few have slipped out in the years since (Bob Marley "Legend", Bryan Adams' "Reckless", Lynyrd Skynyrd..) and I imagine one or two of the Universal DualDiscs were originally slated to be SACD (incl. maybe a couple of Bon Jovi's) but just thinking of those we do know about that never came to be (the Elton's, Killers "Hot Fuss", Maroon 5 "Songs About Jane", the Steely Dan's..) i'll bet there are some incredible things in surround, like Scheiner's "Appetite For Destruction", just sitting around.. and thinking what might have been if some or all of these titles had made it to retail, would it have helped boost Surround/SACDs fortunes or just prolonged the agony a bit.. hmm..

i don't know about 'locked and loaded', there's over a hundred MultiCh mixes in UMe's vault 'unloved and unreleased'..! let's start a petition!

see my thoughts on this Adam, just below your post. If only we had a say in this buddy? Haha, imagine this.

The Vault. Unlocking the archives of UMe.
- Hi res downloads straight from the vaults of UMe. Curated by QuadraphonicQuad. Brought to you in easy format of flac, dsd and burnable ISO in stereo and multichannel.

One can dream, right?

 

[Mobster]

This is awesome