How we gonna play our discs in the next future?!

[kfbkfb]

IMHO, one danger of having (nearly) all music on servers only (no official physical copies) is that the copy on the servers is subject to "politically correct" editing.

I think the MPA movie rating system should be used for music (obviously, some of the rated things in movies won't apply to music) and the streamable/downloadable music should be restricted like movies are (no editing).


Kirk Bayne

 

[mandrix]

IMHO, one danger of having (nearly) all music on servers only (no official physical copies) is that the copy on the servers is subject to "politically correct" editing.

I think the MPA movie rating system should be used for music (obviously, some of the rated things in movies won't apply to music) and the streamable/downloadable music should be restricted like movies are (no editing).


Kirk Bayne

That's an interesting train of thought I admit I never explored.
Brings to mind lyrics from an old Savoy Brown song....troubled by these days and times...

 

[Sal1950]

Where else can one go and have a respectable discussion about our preferences for music, formats, devices? No matter. We have strong opinions and that's great, and by and large remain civil.
I think that's pretty darn good.
Happy holidays to each and every one of you.

Very well said brother.
Hope your having a wonderful holiday with friends and family today.
Sal

 

[esimms86]

Where else can one go and have a respectable discussion about our preferences for music, formats, devices? No matter. We have strong opinions and that's great, and by and large remain civil.
I think that's pretty darn good.
Happy holidays to each and every one of you.

Well said Mandrix. Happy Holidays to all.

 

[barfle]

We are blessed (or cursed) with a plethora of viable formats. Just MP3s can have a rew dozen different compression levels, fer cryin out loud. And some of us collect truly obscure formats, like my collection of Teleplayer EVR films. There have been some excellent players of these formats over the years, and those of us who have the format care for their players and dread the day when the last spare hanninframis cracks. All good. I even love my SACDs.

May your Christmas, or whatever solstice festival you celebrate, be joyful and spent with those you love.

 

[jimfisheye]

IMHO, one danger of having (nearly) all music on servers only (no official physical copies) is that the copy on the servers is subject to "politically correct" editing.

I think the MPA movie rating system should be used for music (obviously, some of the rated things in movies won't apply to music) and the streamable/downloadable music should be restricted like movies are (no editing).


Kirk Bayne

Is "politically correct editing" a euphemism for "my server crashed and I didn't have backup"?

We have to care for are albums. Same for CDs. Same for computers and hard drives.
The ability to have a backup that is very literally a perfect clone of the source with no generational issues is pretty solid. Some action is required but this can be more robust than before. Keep an offsite backup with some of your friends. (You know, for backup purposes.)

If you mean relying on someone else's server...
Yeah, treat anything you see online as fleeting! Download and save anything useful you find as though you think it will be deleted tomorrow. Sometimes it is! The 20-somethings just blown by the wind with streaming services and no personal collections whatsoever is a little shocking. But then I seem to remember that I was always an outlier keeping a music collection while all my friends just tuned into some radio. The next level up from that was making cheap cassettes on a boombox. Radio became streaming. Similar quality too. Cheap boombox cassettes became mp3s.

 

[Sal1950]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archéophone

I want one, though I can't afford it nor have room to put it.
I have this memory of way back sometime in the early 60s, seeing a original sitting forgotten in a
corner of the barn on my uncles farm. I can remember there being a bunch of cylinders with it that I momentarily picked up and examined a few. I thought about wanting it but never went any further with the idea.

 

[audiomaster]

Why can't we have a scanning device, like a flat bed scanner, the uses a fine beam laser to record all the grooves on a record and then uses software to recover them as audio? No wear and could almost instantly degitise a disc.l

 

[mandrix]

Why can't we have a scanning device, like a flat bed scanner, the uses a fine beam laser to record all the grooves on a record and then uses software to recover them as audio? No wear and could almost instantly degitise a disc.l

Well there is laser TT....

 

[jimfisheye]

I must have forgotten to follow whatever might be going on with optical tech and reading vinyl. Does anyone know where this is at? Is it within available scanning resolution? The ability to cancel out the mechanics like the spiral and all that with the raw image data should have been a done deal 20 years ago computer-wise. Is there some very expensive imaging required to resolve the etched data or something?

Got to add this nowadays: Of course I'm talking about resolving full complete data for full fidelity of signal. Not some novelty thing with "USB turntable" quality.

This just seems like something everyone interested in these recordings would want, right? Why don't I see it going on?

 

[Sal1950]

I must have forgotten to follow whatever might be going on with optical tech and reading vinyl. Does anyone know where this is at? Is it within available scanning resolution? The ability to cancel out the mechanics like the spiral and all that with the raw image data should have been a done deal 20 years ago computer-wise. Is there some very expensive imaging required to resolve the etched data or something?

Got to add this nowadays: Of course I'm talking about resolving full complete data for full fidelity of signal. Not some novelty thing with "USB turntable" quality.

This just seems like something everyone interested in these recordings would want, right? Why don't I see it going on?

Jimmy, in this day and age do your really play your LP's enough to worry over wear and spend a
huge amount of money on them? Use a TOTL MM needle that can track at 1 to 1.5 grams like a Stanton 881S or Shure V15 and mount it in a low mass tone arm. Keep them very clean and that will minimize wear.
Or do a good digital recording of each and put them away.

 

[mandrix]

I must have forgotten to follow whatever might be going on with optical tech and reading vinyl. Does anyone know where this is at? Is it within available scanning resolution? The ability to cancel out the mechanics like the spiral and all that with the raw image data should have been a done deal 20 years ago computer-wise. Is there some very expensive imaging required to resolve the etched data or something?

Got to add this nowadays: Of course I'm talking about resolving full complete data for full fidelity of signal. Not some novelty thing with "USB turntable" quality.

This just seems like something everyone interested in these recordings would want, right? Why don't I see it going on?

I know of one QQ member with a laser TT. He hasn't posted anything back in a while I think so not sure how it's working out.

 

[kfbkfb]

I don't mean to introduce politics into this post, however, the 2nd paragraph in the Plot section sums up my "editing" concern (the scene that reveals this info stuck with me since I first saw Rollerball in the late 1970s/early 1980s):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollerball_(1975_film)


On a somewhat related issue, the few times I've streamed audio from some USA radio stations or from some of the BBC radio stations, the derived surround sound was pretty good (DPL2 music mode or Hafler).


Kirk Bayne

 

[mandrix]

I don't mean to introduce politics into this post, however, the 2nd paragraph in the Plot section sums up my "editing" concern (the scene that reveals this info stuck with me since I first saw Rollerball in the late 1970s/early 1980s):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollerball_(1975_film)


On a somewhat related issue, the few times I've streamed audio from some USA radio stations or from some of the BBC radio stations, the derived surround sound was pretty good (DPL2 music mode or Hafler).


Kirk Bayne

1984
knocking on your door
Will you let it come
Will you let it run your life?

....Spirit

 

[jimfisheye]

Jimmy, in this day and age do your really play your LP's enough to worry over wear and spend a
huge amount of money on them? Use a TOTL MM needle that can track at 1 to 1.5 grams like a Stanton 881S or Shure V15 and mount it in a low mass tone arm. Keep them very clean and that will minimize wear.
Or do a good digital recording of each and put them away.

No, I'm with you on all that. I just thought of it again and it occurs to me that an image system could be an end all if it worked. Not a laser pickup though, an image of the whole side of vinyl. High enough res to resolve anything etched in there. I don't know that math off the top of my head for how feasible and expensive. That would lead to being able to work around some kinds of damage elegantly too.

 

[MidiMagic]

Vinyl degrades. I know you know that. But I will never argue against your preferences.
A lot of music was released as pure shit: we all know that's true, regardless of format.

I have shellac 78s that are over 100 years old. Only two are deteriorating, and those are WWII recordings made using substitute materials. Both succumbed to mold.

I have vinyl over 75 years old and NONE of them is deteriorating due to age.

That is YOUR opinion on the quality of the music. But a lot of music has not been re-released on CD.

So you have found a way to zero out the friction created by the stylus running over the groove of the vinyl?
I thought the friction against the vinyl is what produced the sound.
If there is sound then there is degradation every time you play it, no matter how great your equipment is. We can argue over how slight that degradation is but, if there is friction then there is degradation.

Friction is not what produces the sound. The friction is at right angles to the directions the music is recorded in.
- The friction is along the length of the groove.
- The left channel and the right channel are each recorded at right angles to the length of the groove.
- The left channel and the right channel are each recorded at right angles to each other.
- The displacements of the grooves at right angles to its length record the sounds.
- A blank groove has the same amount of friction that a recorded groove has.
- If a frictionless stylus is ever developed, it would still play the record.
- CD-4 would cause more friction because of the very short wavelength of the carrier (causing much higher stylus deflection angles).

 

[Perp]

Didn’t Michael Fremer say that vinyl doesn’t degrade and proved it?

 

[audiomaster]

But if you have several hundred LPs, how much time are you going to dedicate to digitizing them if you have to play each one thru, both sides in real time? I am thinking some sort of miniature LIDAR scanner thing. Maybe 30 seconds per side.

 

[Sal1950]

No, I'm with you on all that. I just thought of it again and it occurs to me that an image system could be an end all if it worked. Not a laser pickup though, an image of the whole side of vinyl. High enough res to resolve anything etched in there. I don't know that math off the top of my head for how feasible and expensive. That would lead to being able to work around some kinds of damage elegantly too.

I get what your thinking. OTOH, I may be wrong but by it's very nature this optical reading would, by it's very nature, include a analog to digital conversion, soooo maybe just start doing high quality needle drop files for each new LP and be done with it.
Going back to my retirement and move to FL, I made needledrops of all my approx 300 LP's. Running my H-K ST8 straight line arm'd TT, Dynavector Ruby MC or Stanton 881S MM, into my PS Audio Phono stage, and directly into Audacity software on my PCLinuxOS computer. I later did a number of listening comparisons between the files and the LP, closely level matched recordings and never thought I could hear a bit of difference between them.
All that being said and all that work behind me, I can't remember a single instance in the last 10 years or so that I felt the desire to listen to any of those files considering I have either now a commercial digital disc or there's something being losslessly streamed I'd rather listen to.
YMMV.

 

[esimms86]

But if you have several hundred LPs, how much time are you going to dedicate to digitizing them if you have to play each one thru, both sides in real time? I am thinking some sort of miniature LIDAR scanner thing. Maybe 30 seconds per side.

Perhaps you might selectively digitize the albums that were never re-released in digital format, plus a handful of your favorites. The ultimate number of LP’s that you choose to digitize, of course, would be entirely up to you(some people are more driven/compulsive than others). I did have my copy of the Beatles In Mono digitized by a dear friend. One side of an album was equal to one digital FLAC file in 24 192 resolution.