HiRez Poll John, Elton - GOODBYE YELLOW BRICK ROAD [SACD/DVD-A/BDA]

[fredblue]

The DR average of the 5.1 on the SACD/DVDA is 11, with a minimum of 9 and a maximum of 13.

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/60142

The Stereo on the other hand.. @:

 

[DennisMoore Jr.]

well, I have a theory on the differences I have picked up on between the old SACD/DVDA and the new Blu.. in a nutshell, what we got on the SACD/DVDA was a futzed with (treble boosted and rear channel volume boosted) version of Greg's 5.1 mix and the Blu-ray is Greg's mix minus those rear channel level adjustments and brightness features/issues (*)

it may seem far-fetched or unlikely but put it this way, the GYBR SACD & DVDA (if my theory is proven to be correct) would not be the first example of a perfectly good 5.1 mix that's been screwed up by the time it made it to DVDA or SACD by hamfisted channel level adjustment and/or compression and dodgy EQ decisions made by others (i.e. not by the creator of the remix, in this case Greg Penny).

Ok, I understand your theory, but in practicality I don't see how that could happen. I think once the 5.1 mixer is done with his choices, its still part of his realm to then flow the 5.1 channels into a "container". I don't think he just submits 5.1 channels of PCM audio to an authoring person like Neil Wilkes. I could be wrong here(could an actual smart person help me out here?).
So I don't see anybody down stream from Greg Penny saying: "Oh very nice job Greg, but it needs a dash more treble!"...

But... just like UFO & Conspiracy theories, there does seem to be ample reports of different sounding versions of the same title when it is done in a different format: DTS-DSD-MLP-DTS-MA, etc...

All I know is somebody will need to pry out of my cold dead hands, my copies of SACD: GBYBR & Capt. Fantastic!

Do we know for a fact that Captain Fantastic is coming out on Pure Audio?

 

[fredblue]

Ok, I understand your theory, but in practicality I don't see how that could happen. I think once the 5.1 mixer is done with his choices, its still part of his realm to then flow the 5.1 channels into a "container". I don't think he just submits 5.1 channels of PCM audio to an authoring person like Neil Wilkes. I could be wrong here(could an actual smart person help me out here?).
So I don't see anybody down stream from Greg Penny saying: "Oh very nice job Greg, but it needs a dash more treble!"...

But... just like UFO & Conspiracy theories, there does seem to be ample reports of different sounding versions of the same title when it is done in a different format: DTS-DSD-MLP-DTS-MA, etc...

All I know is somebody will need to pry out of my cold dead hands, my copies of SACD: GBYBR & Capt. Fantastic!

Do we know for a fact that Captain Fantastic is coming out on Pure Audio?

5.1 mixes, just like Stereo, get mastered for whatever format they end up on.. and all sorts of things can happen during that process.

remember Peter Mew's mastering moves on Steven Wilson's TAAB 5.1 that made a great-sounding mix almost unbearable..?

think of the GYBR thing along these lines.. the corrected TAAB disc is SW's original version, the original TAAB disc has PM's EQ adjustments etc.. the new GYBR BD is Greg's original version, the old GYBR SACD has someone's (I don't know who??) mastering moves all over them.. the more recent disc of both is the more desirable.

I don't know exactly what is going, I'm not a tecchy person, I just go by what I hear.. but the BDA & SACD do not sound the same, to me, on my setup. I just wish more people had the BDA so they could compare the two and not simply take my word for it (or not take my word for it!)

 

[kap'n krunch]

5.1 mixes, just like Stereo, get mastered for whatever format they end up on.. and all sorts of things can happen during that process.

remember Peter Mew's mastering moves on Steven Wilson's TAAB 5.1 that made a great-sounding mix almost unbearable..?

think of the GYBR thing along these lines.. the corrected TAAB disc is SW's original version, the original TAAB disc has PM's EQ adjustments etc.. the new GYBR BD is Greg's original version, the old GYBR SACD has someone's (I don't know who??) mastering moves all over them.. the more recent disc of both is the more desirable.

I don't know exactly what is going, I'm not a tecchy person, I just go by what I hear.. but the BDA & SACD do not sound the same, to me, on my setup. I just wish more people had the BDA so they could compare the two and not simply take my word for it (or not take my word for it!)

I totally agree...there are various titles that are supposed to be the same mix and sound VERY different in different formats..Peter Mew is guilty of quite a few crimes...but he did some cool stuff in the 70's , so let's not be too hard on him...

 

[fredblue]

I totally agree...there are various titles that are supposed to be the same mix and sound VERY different in different formats..Peter Mew is guilty of quite a few crimes...but he did some cool stuff in the 70's , so let's not be too hard on him...

very well said kap I'm not bashing PM for everything he's done by any means (his Machine Head Quad>SACD is very good) but he did screw up SW's TAAB and that's an example I'm citing here just for illustrative purposes.

QQ member steelydave has made some great discoveries in this area, with regard to 5.1's like George Benson's Breezin' and Billy Cobham's Spectrum on DVD-A and Quad>5.1 SACD of the Isleys' 3+3, where the mixes have been shown to have been goofed up in mastering to disc.

 

[DennisMoore Jr.]

5.1 mixes, just like Stereo, get mastered for whatever format they end up on.. and all sorts of things can happen during that process.

remember Peter Mew's mastering moves on Steven Wilson's TAAB 5.1 that made a great-sounding mix almost unbearable..?

think of the GYBR thing along these lines.. the corrected TAAB disc is SW's original version, the original TAAB disc has PM's EQ adjustments etc.. the new GYBR BD is Greg's original version, the old GYBR SACD has someone's (I don't know who??) mastering moves all over them.. the more recent disc of both is the more desirable.

I don't know exactly what is going, I'm not a tecchy person, I just go by what I hear.. but the BDA & SACD do not sound the same, to me, on my setup. I just wish more people had the BDA so they could compare the two and not simply take my word for it (or not take my word for it!)

Ok, fair enough, I guess I was being an "idealist" here. We all know that "mastering" is only needed when the music changes formats (mag tape to vinyl for example) So.... after a talented lad like SW or Greg Penny do their 5.1 mix there is no need for any "Mastering" since the format was 5.1 mixed in digital and it will be sold in digital. So... Idealistically, I didn't wanna believe there could be an audio professional who could be so ill-advised to add another layer of sonic "sweetening". You pay the 5.1 guy for his ear & talent. If you don't trust his judgment you don't use the guy in the first place. There is no need for some middle-man to add his sonic $.02. But apparently it happens...

How do we know Capt. Fantastic is coming to BluRay?

 

[fredblue]

We don't know about the CFATBDC BDA for sure DMJ! (Well, I don't!)

its just that early last year a Universal memo leaked that had a list of rock & pop albums ready to rock & roll on HFPA Blu-ray.. so far we've seen a few of them, including Bob Marley, Lionel Richie, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, The Stones, Beck, Nirvana, EJ's Yellow Brick Road, etc..

also on the list were Captain Fantastic, Dire Straits' BIA, Guns n Roses Appetite For Destruction, Abba Gold, Killers Hot Fuss, Maroon 5 Songs About Jane and a good few tantalising others.. none of which have appeared.. thus far..

 

[fredblue]

We don't know about the CFATBDC BDA for sure DMJ! (Well, I don't!)

its just that early last year a Universal memo leaked that had a list of rock & pop albums ready to rock & roll on HFPA Blu-ray.. so far we've seen a few of them, including Layla, Bob Marley, Lionel Richie, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Nirvana, The Stones, Beck, EJ's Yellow Brick Road, etc..

also on the list were Captain Fantastic, Dire Straits' BIA, Guns n Roses Appetite For Destruction, Abba Gold, Killers Hot Fuss, Maroon 5 Songs About Jane and a good few tantalising others.. none of which have appeared.. thus far..

Here's the leaked list again for your perusal...

HIGH FIDELITY – PURE AUDIO:
CONTEMPORARY ALBUM RELEASE LIST:


Abba - Gold
Amy Winehouse - Back to Black
Beastie Boys - License To Ill
Beck - Sea Change
Bob Marley & The Wailers - Legend
Bon Jovi - Greatest Hits
Def Leppard Vault (Greatest Hits)
Derek And The Dominoes - Layla
Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms
Dr Dre - 2001
Elton John - Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
Elton John - Captain Fantastic
Guns N Roses - Appetite For Destruction
Jamie Cullum - Twentysomething
Lionel Richie - Can't Slow Down
Maroon 5 - Songs About Jane
Marvin Gaye - What's Going On
Mike Oldfield - Tubular Bells
Nina Simone - I Put A Spell On You
Nirvana - Nevermind
Queen - Greatest Hits
Steely Dan - Gaucho
Stevie Wonder - Songs In The Key Of Life
Sting - 25
Sting - Sacred Love
The Killers - Hot Fuss
The Eagles - Hell Freezes Over
The Rolling Stones - Let it Bleed
U2 - The Joshua Tree

So far, we've seen HFPA Blu-ray's of 11 titles from this list..

 

[Blrac]

Here's the leaked list again for your perusal...

HIGH FIDELITY – PURE AUDIO:
CONTEMPORARY ALBUM RELEASE LIST:


Abba - Gold
Amy Winehouse - Back to Black
Beastie Boys - License To Ill
Beck - Sea Change
Bob Marley & The Wailers - Legend
Bon Jovi - Greatest Hits
Def Leppard Vault (Greatest Hits)
Derek And The Dominoes - Layla
Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms
Dr Dre - 2001
Elton John - Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
Elton John - Captain Fantastic
Guns N Roses - Appetite For Destruction
Jamie Cullum - Twentysomething
Lionel Richie - Can't Slow Down
Maroon 5 - Songs About Jane
Marvin Gaye - What's Going On
Mike Oldfield - Tubular Bells
Nina Simone - I Put A Spell On You
Nirvana - Nevermind
Queen - Greatest Hits
Steely Dan - Gaucho
Stevie Wonder - Songs In The Key Of Life
Sting - 25
Sting - Sacred Love
The Killers - Hot Fuss
The Eagles - Hell Freezes Over
The Rolling Stones - Let it Bleed
U2 - The Joshua Tree

So far, we've seen HFPA Blu-ray's of 11 titles from this list..

Most of those are stereo releases, which is disappointing. Any idea if there are any surround mixes planned for any that were previously not released that way? Otherwise, I will be passing on most of them.

 

[fredblue]

Most of those are stereo releases, which is disappointing. Any idea if there are any surround mixes planned for any that were previously not released that way? Otherwise, I will be passing on most of them.

5.1 mixes exist for the following from that list = Dire Straits, The Killers, Maroon 5, The Eagles, Jamie Cullum, Mike Oldfield, Sting/Sacred Love, Steely Dan.

 

[fredblue]

5.1 mixes exist for the following from that list = Dire Straits, The Killers, Maroon 5, The Eagles, Jamie Cullum, Mike Oldfield, Sting/Sacred Love, Steely Dan.

I'll add that the Lionel, Stevie & Marvin Blu's may be "only stereo" but they sound great! I highly recommend all three.

anyway we should get back on the Yellow Brick Road topic!

PM me if you want to know more on the Blu-ray situation, Blrac. Or we can take it to the dedicated HFPA thread

 

[Blrac]

Sorry for hijacking thread. This album is amazing, hands down my favorite Elton John sacd. My kids even like it. He is in concert close by this summer in VA. Gonna look into tickets as I can't see how it would be possible for this to be anything but spectular!

 

[DennisMoore Jr.]

We don't know about the CFATBDC BDA for sure DMJ! (Well, I don't!)

its just that early last year a Universal memo leaked that had a list of rock & pop albums ready to rock & roll on HFPA Blu-ray.. so far we've seen a few of them, including Bob Marley, Lionel Richie, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, The Stones, Beck, Nirvana, EJ's Yellow Brick Road, etc..

also on the list were Captain Fantastic, Dire Straits' BIA, Guns n Roses Appetite For Destruction, Abba Gold, Killers Hot Fuss, Maroon 5 Songs About Jane and a good few tantalising others.. none of which have appeared.. thus far..

Thanks Laddie!

I didn't mean to badger you on it but we are talkin Captain Fantastic & The Brown Dirt Cowboy.... EJ's finest piece of progressive music(according to Elton John).

Thanks for the list. Lots of stuff there has already been released on 5.1. It'd be nice to see more Steely Dan...

Since Universal is a major conglomerate, I hold out hope that if they really push the whole PureAudio on BluRay it may get going and we may even get a real 5.1 market with lots of titles. Surely that will get us the remaining GP EJ 5.1 remixes!

 

[fredblue]

Thanks Laddie!

I didn't mean to badger you on it but we are talkin Captain Fantastic & The Brown Dirt Cowboy.... EJ's finest piece of progressive music(according to Elton John).

Thanks for the list. Lots of stuff there has already been released on 5.1. It'd be nice to see more Steely Dan...

Since Universal is a major conglomerate, I hold out hope that if they really push the whole PureAudio on BluRay it may get going and we may even get a real 5.1 market with lots of titles. Surely that will get us the remaining GP EJ 5.1 remixes!

Not at all! Badger away! If I can answer or help I will.

I'm keeping everything crossed Universal get those Killers, Elton, Steely Dan etc 5.1's out ASAP!

 

[jberger]

There's a nice interview with Elton John in today's LA Times (promoting the latest 40th anniversary re-release that doesn't include a multi-channel version:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...k-road-20140409,0,3696901.story#axzz2yQnsfvd6

I didn't realize that the entire album was written and recorded in 17 days.

 

[fredblue]

There's a nice interview with Elton John in today's LA Times (promoting the latest 40th anniversary re-release that doesn't include a multi-channel version:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...k-road-20140409,0,3696901.story#axzz2yQnsfvd6

I didn't realize that the entire album was written and recorded in 17 days.

Thanks for the link jberger

Its good to see he acknowledges the importance of Gus and Davey, Dee & Nigel (Davey & Nigel still to this day) in the making of that album.


I'm hopeful his comments regarding how wowed he is by all Gus' incredible production touches (the drum sound, the piano, etc) now he's hearing it "with fresh ears" will make him think about the direction he'll take for his next studio album.


I don't prefer his voice now but it is what it is. It was very touch and go he'd ever sing again back then in Australia, so at least he's still going, even if the voice has changed so markedly and for the fact he's still around I'm sure a good few people are thankful (me included!)

 

[wavelength]

Unfortunately the GYBR blu-ray is not in the same league (fidelity-wise) as the earlier sacd releases. I never had the GYBR sacd or dvd-a but I have most of the others. Those are the kind of recordings you put on, sit back, and soak in. Just thinking about Rocket Man gives me chills. GYBR was EJ at his prime. A great song selection - arguably the best of any of his albums. And his singing on that album is so confident and commanding.

Listening to the blu-ray I find myself making excuses for the harsh (not smooth) sound. They got it right on those other sacds. Too bad they messed this up this blu-ray. If you are a stickler for good fidelity you won't like this one.

 

[jberger]

I spent last night listening to the DVD-A of GBYBR through a pair of large Advents, the speakers that I first heard the album with. Still holds up, after 40 years.

 

[Perp]

Unfortunately the GYBR blu-ray is not in the same league (fidelity-wise) as the earlier sacd releases. I never had the GYBR sacd or dvd-a but I have most of the others.

Listening to the blu-ray I find myself making excuses for the harsh (not smooth) sound. They got it right on those other sacds. Too bad they messed this up this blu-ray. If you are a stickler for good fidelity you won't like this one.

Thanks for your observation. It's too bad you have not heard either the DVD-A or SACD and could compare. I kind of wish I purchased both formats when they first came out. I would have preferred the DVD-A just for the sake of not having to change discs to hear the second half like I do with the SACD.

 

[fredblue]

Too bad? It's not much of a comparison. Those later EJ SACDs sound nothing like the GYBR SACD, so to expect the GYBR BDA to sound like the other EJ SACDs doesn't make sense.

the GYBR BDA sounds different (improved imho) to the GYBR SACDs. how's that for a valid comparison?