List your subwoofer and its limitations /strengths

[Rawger]

I also negotiated a settlement with the wife, she's now the ex-wife and I do whatever I like with my gear.



You gentleman confuse me. Bass should not sound like it's coming from anywhere other than the correct placement in the soundstage as determined by the engineer-producer. I have dual Hsu subs, one in the left front corner and one mid-wall in the rear. Position was first determined as to smooth the FR across the room nodes as best as possible. Then Audyssey XT32+Editor app was used to adjust the timing and levels individually, and then the FR eq'd as a pair.. Sub's disappear as a sound source and become integrated into the whole of the soundstage.

Bass Is directional, sub-bass less so.

 

[bill114]

Velodyne Optimum 12 here

strength: 7 band DSP EQ.
limitation: my room dimensions

 

[Beefalo]

I also negotiated a settlement with the wife, she's now the ex-wife and I do whatever I like with my

I also negotiated a settlement with the wife, she's now the ex-wife and I do whatever I like with my gear.

No half measures for you. Go right to the heart of the problem & eliminate it !
I like your style ....

 

[Sal1950]

Bass Is directional, sub-bass less so.

Very true, but we are discussing subwoofers being heard as sound source. Just as with the main speakers, the goal is to not hear the speaker as a source but to disappear. while creating a soundstage.

 

[himey]

I also negotiated a settlement with the wife, she's now the ex-wife and I do whatever I like with my gear.



You gentleman confuse me. Bass should not sound like it's coming from anywhere other than the correct placement in the soundstage as determined by the engineer-producer. I have dual Hsu subs, one in the left front corner and one mid-wall in the rear. Position was first determined as to smooth the FR across the room nodes as best as possible. Then Audyssey XT32+Editor app was used to adjust the timing and levels individually, and then the FR eq'd as a pair.. Sub's disappear as a sound source and become integrated into the whole of the soundstage.

Some multichannel mixes have more bass in the rears like the Chicago set and the bass definitely comes from the rears and I like that. Just a preference on my part. Relax and enjoy the music the way you like it.

 

[himey]

Very true, but we are discussing subwoofers being heard as sound source. Just as with the main speakers, the goal is to not hear the speaker as a source but to disappear. while creating a soundstage.

We all need personal goals. Glad you found yours!

 

[timothyemerson]

I'm well late to the Audyssey party but got a Marantz SR7013 a few months ago, just did the Audyssey calibration and it's noticeably tightened up the bass. I monkeyed with a few of the other level settings by a dB or so, did a spot check on some stereo/5.1 music and parts of movies that I'm very familiar with, and it's sounding surprisingly better. I was skeptical but figured I'd see what Audyssey did and am glad I did so. The real check with be to watch an entire movie that I'm really familiar with so looking forward to seeing how it goes.

 

[Sal1950]

Audyssey can do a good job of correction. Add the $20 Editor app and you can take it to a whole new level of features and adjustablity .
Digital Room Correction is the future of audio and can bring several levels of improvement to a multich HiFi rig.

 

[timothyemerson]

Audyssey can do a good job of correction. Add the $20 Editor app and you can take it to a whole new level of features and adjustablity .
Digital Room Correction is the future of audio and can bring several levels of improvement to a multich HiFi rig.

Aw man, I thought I had it all dialed in properly! I was also thinking about getting a Mini DSP and doing the whole REW thing too. I'll add your suggestions to my list, thanks!

 

[Sal1950]

Aw man, I thought I had it all dialed in properly! I was also thinking about getting a Mini DSP and doing the whole REW thing too. I'll add your suggestions to my list, thanks!

There's so much that can be done.
But beware, that road can lead to insanity.

 

[timothyemerson]

There's so much that can be done.
But beware, that road can lead to insanity.

So true. It's a slippery slope (angling slightly downward from about 20-80Hz).

 

[hobie1dog]

It is well known that Audyssey usually leaves you with a weak bottom end. Complaints are all over the web forums. Every time we used it setting up home theaters we installed, we would have to go in and bring the bass level up. The guy I sold my 8ft. long subwoofer with the (4) 18" drivers in Ito, called me when he got it installed in his house and was wondering why it didn't have near the output it did at my house. I said" I guess you used Audyssey, right?"

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Aren't both Audyssey and Dirac Live limited to outputting 48kHz sample rates, or has that changed?

The miniDSP gear that uses REW has a 96kHz limit.

 

[GOS]

It is well known that Audyssey usually leaves you with a weak bottom end. Complaints are all over the web forums. Every time we used it setting up home theaters we installed, we would have to go in and bring the bass level up. The guy I sold my 8ft. long subwoofer with the (4) 18" drivers in Ito, called me when he got it installed in his house and was wondering why it didn't have near the output it did at my house. I said" I guess you used Audyssey, right?"

I fully, 100% agree. For years, I've used Audyssey, and 100% of the time, I was never happy with the sub levels. Always, always, turned it up.

 

[marpow]

There's so much that can be done.
But beware, that road can lead to insanity.

Insanity is what I am trying to avoid, even though I feel I am already there. I am planning my room move and during Covid I have time to study a lot. My current system is one REL S5 sub in open livingroom and I will be moving to a 12' X 14' bedroom dedicated to 5.2.4. I have contacted REL and they are suggesting 3 subs for what they call there REL 3D. Not sure I need 3 subs but definitely two. My speakers are B&W. They wrote me this.

Looking at the speaker pairing app at REL.net, it suggests a new REL Serie S S/510 for the front, a T/7i for the center and another S/510 for the rear when using the 804s.
Since you already have the S/5, this can be used for either the center or the rear. If you are intending the use the 805s for the rear, I would use the S/5 back there.

This is what I am convinced of so far:
1. Multiple subs are a must, but 2 or 3 is the question.
2. Bass management is a must.
3. Room correction is a must, seating should be considered in natural room modes with nulls (dips).
4. Some kind of room correction software is a must, using a combination of different software can be helpful. Choices are Auddesy, REW and DIRAC LIVE 2. Some say using a MINI DSP is good, others say that hardware is not needed in your chain. The best calibrating mic is the UMK1.
5. I am convinced if my goal is to have a rich audio only surround system that setting it up as a home theater system is a must. LFE (effects) can be there and does not really matter in my bass management.
6. In my case I think I would first start with Audessy for my basic set up and then add in DIRAC2LIVE as a plugin to my JRiver player.

What I am having trouble understanding:
1. Do we set up the sub layer as a separate layer first and then add that into the foundation layer (the 5 speakers in my case) next?
2. Can I even do this myself? I get nervous thinking about it all as it is slightly over my head.

 

[Beefalo]

Insanity is what I am trying to avoid, even though I feel I am already there..
2. Can I even do this myself? I get nervous thinking about it all as it is slightly over my head.

Wish I could help you out with this technical stuff my friend but "I'm a simple man - I work with my hands"

 

[Mcallister]

Only the 2x4HD is 96khz I believe

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Insanity is what I am trying to avoid, even though I feel I am already there. I am planning my room move and during Covid I have time to study a lot. My current system is one REL S5 sub in open livingroom and I will be moving to a 12' X 14' bedroom dedicated to 5.2.4. I have contacted REL and they are suggesting 3 subs for what they call there REL 3D. Not sure I need 3 subs but definitely two. My speakers are B&W. They wrote me this.

Looking at the speaker pairing app at REL.net, it suggests a new REL Serie S S/510 for the front, a T/7i for the center and another S/510 for the rear when using the 804s.
Since you already have the S/5, this can be used for either the center or the rear. If you are intending the use the 805s for the rear, I would use the S/5 back there.

This is what I am convinced of so far:
1. Multiple subs are a must, but 2 or 3 is the question.
2. Bass management is a must.
3. Room correction is a must, seating should be considered in natural room modes with nulls (dips).
4. Some kind of room correction software is a must, using a combination of different software can be helpful. Choices are Auddesy, REW and DIRAC LIVE 2. Some say using a MINI DSP is good, others say that hardware is not needed in your chain. The best calibrating mic is the UMK1.
5. I am convinced if my goal is to have a rich audio only surround system that setting it up as a home theater system is a must. LFE (effects) can be there and does not really matter in my bass management.
6. In my case I think I would first start with Audessy for my basic set up and then add in DIRAC2LIVE as a plugin to my JRiver player.

What I am having trouble understanding:
1. Do we set up the sub layer as a separate layer first and then add that into the foundation layer (the 5 speakers in my case) next?
2. Can I even do this myself? I get nervous thinking about it all as it is slightly over my head.

My thoughts:
three subs in a 12x14 room seems like overkill. Even 2 seems like more reasonable overkill
once you have Audessy set up, wouldant it also process anything coming from JRiver? Why would you need both correction systems?
As i mentioned in a earlier post, i believe both of the room correction packages limit output sampling rate to 48kHz.

 

[Mcallister]

The purpose of multiple subs isn’t only for output but also headroom and more importantly frequency response. You are dealing with such large wavelengths having only one sub you will 100% of the time not achieve a flat response.

using room correction does indeed limit you to 48Khz however doing a size by side with correction and without woth correction, even downsampled for use of room correction will almost always sound better and undoubtedly have a better in room response.

Even with a fully treated room (bass traps in all 4 corners floor to ceiling, around perimeter of room at ceiling walls, diffusion, first and second reflection points, etc) you will still benefit from the room correction. I can vouch for that

 

[LuvMyQuad]

The purpose of multiple subs isn’t only for output but also headroom and more importantly frequency response. You are dealing with such large wavelengths having only one sub you will 100% of the time not achieve a flat response.

I agree. However in general, a smaller room requires less output. Less output allows for more headroom. And regardless of the number of subs involved, you will 100% of the time not achieve flat response, especially with the standing waves one is likely to encounter in a smallish space.

using room correction does indeed limit you to 48Khz however doing a side by side with correction and without correction, even downsampled the use of room correction will almost always sound better and undoubtedly have a better in room response.

I agree again. I was simply warning the OP of the 48kHz limit. That limit can be extended to 96kHz by going with PEQ and a REW based system. The effort is greater however. So wouldant 96kHz with room correction trump 48kHz with room correction, assuming one can hear the difference between sampling rates at all?

Even with a fully treated room (bass traps in all 4 corners floor to ceiling, around perimeter of room at ceiling walls, diffusion, first and second reflection points, etc) you will still benefit from the room correction. I can vouch for that

No doubt.