Listening to now (In Surround!) - Volume 1

[Owen Smith]

I have Queen -The Game on DVD-A and it's a bit different from A Night At The Opera (which I also have). The album was a more stripped down sound so doesn't have the multi layered harmonies to spread around like ANATO. What they do on some tracks is put just Freddie's lead vocal line in the Centre channel and distribute the rest to the other speakers. It spoils the stereo front image a bit, I'm not a fan of the Centre for music. But the plus side is it exposes the sheer beauty of Freddie's voice and the vocals he's singing. It's like he's in the room sat between your front left/right pair.

 

[Perp]

XTC - Nonsuch

I'm only on track 5 as I started writing this. I've never heard this record other than the two standout AOR tracks, "Ballad Of Peter Pumpkinhead" and "The Disappointed". So far, I'm liking what I'm hearing but not too crazy about the two different surround mixes I've been testing.

 

[fredblue]

I have Queen -The Game on DVD-A and it's a bit different from A Night At The Opera (which I also have). The album was a more stripped down sound so doesn't have the multi layered harmonies to spread around like ANATO. What they do on some tracks is put just Freddie's lead vocal line in the Centre channel and distribute the rest to the other speakers. It spoils the stereo front image a bit, I'm not a fan of the Centre for music. But the plus side is it exposes the sheer beauty of Freddie's voice and the vocals he's singing. It's like he's in the room sat between your front left/right pair.

I struggled to get the Centre channel right for many years (going from a Sony, to a JBL, to a Tannoy, to an Acoustic Energy, to a Monitor Audio) and it's only in the last couple of years I've managed to get a speaker that integrates well with the front pair.

the Monitor Audio isn't perfect, you have to be in the sweet spot or you get lobing effects (as with all horizontal centres that don't have tweeter/mid and woofer on different axes on the baffle) but its the best of the 5 I've experimented with to date, so long as you're not way over to one side of the room, everything is fine, more than fine in fact, its great.

to my mind, the most important thing with centre speakers I've found out along the way is timbre matching it to Front L&R, for 5.1 the rears ordinarily make scant difference, with Quad, all 4 pref the same sonic signature of course.. all of which is most noticeable when I setup my Monitor Audio's, suddenly the centre is virtually seamless, just as it should be.

despite the technical difficulties of getting the centre to gel for music, I've always thought it to be a fun (exciting, even) addition when used well (though my favourite surround remix man of all time, Elliot Scheiner, doesn't use the centre much as a rule, I have to admit).

hearing Freddie's incredible voice in isolation in the centre, or the young Elton in his 70's heyday, or Marvin Gaye's glorious vocals is just spectacular. everyone I've ever played the magic trick on of solo-ing the vocals in the centre-only of these mixes has been utterly gobsmacked, spellbound even.

is that a gimmick? is it the ultimate extension of high-fidelity? is it as close to being in the studio/with the artist as possible? I don't know but its a bloody huge load of fun you can't do with 2-channels..!!!

oh and I should add, to kinda get back and leap to the defence of the legitimacy of the centre channel for surround music, that when you've nailed the timbre of the front 3, it can be superb... though I have to say some of the best Quads have got absolutely incredible phantom centres, you literally would have thought the centre was on!

 

[Failed Muso]

I struggled to get the Centre channel right for many years (going from a Sony, to a JBL, to a Tannoy, to an Acoustic Energy, to a Monitor Audio) and it's only in the last couple of years I've managed to get a speaker that integrates well with the front pair.

the Monitor Audio isn't perfect, you have to be in the sweet spot or you get lobing effects (as with all horizontal centres that don't have tweeter/mid and woofer on different axes on the baffle) but its the best of the 5 I've experimented with to date, so long as you're not way over to one side of the room, everything is fine, more than fine in fact, its great.

to my mind, the most important thing with centre speakers I've found out along the way is timbre matching it to Front L&R, for 5.1 the rears ordinarily make scant difference, with Quad, all 4 pref the same sonic signature of course.. all of which is most noticeable when I setup my Monitor Audio's, suddenly the centre is virtually seamless, just as it should be.

despite the technical difficulties of getting the centre to gel for music, I've always thought it to be a fun (exciting, even) addition when used well (though my favourite surround remix man of all time, Elliot Scheiner, doesn't use the centre much as a rule, I have to admit).

hearing Freddie's incredible voice in isolation in the centre, or the young Elton in his 70's heyday, or Marvin Gaye's glorious vocals is just spectacular. everyone I've ever played the magic trick on of solo-ing the vocals in the centre-only of these mixes has been utterly gobsmacked, spellbound even.

is that a gimmick? is it the ultimate extension of high-fidelity? is it as close to being in the studio/with the artist as possible? I don't know but its a bloody huge load of fun you can't do with 2-channels..!!!

oh and I should add, to kinda get back and leap to the defence of the legitimacy of the centre channel for surround music, that when you've nailed the timbre of the front 3, it can be superb... though I have to say some of the best Quads have got absolutely incredible phantom centres, you literally would have thought the centre was on!

Some interesting notes from the production team on how they used (or didn't use) the centre channel on these albums...

http://www.brianmay.com/queen/thegame/technical3.html

 

[fredblue]

Some interesting notes from the production team on how they used (or didn't use) the centre channel on these albums...

http://www.brianmay.com/queen/thegame/technical3.html

great article! thanks Rob! ..but did I miss something? I couldn't see anything about the use of the centre channel?

 

[Failed Muso]

great article! thanks Rob! ..but did I miss something? I couldn't see anything about the use of the centre channel?

Sorry, it was on page 4...

http://www.brianmay.com/queen/thegame/technical4.html

 

[fredblue]

Sorry, it was on page 4...

http://www.brianmay.com/queen/thegame/technical4.html

ah-ha! fab! thank you

 

[Perp]

Reasons for using the centre channel or speaker.
• If one sits too far to one side, the centre of the mix still appears to be coming from the centre, not the side speaker.
• Because it is there.
• In case it is played in a cinema.

Reasons for not using the centre channel or speaker
• Sitting too far to one side is not an issue in most peoples homes.
• Sitting in the middle of a properly set-up system it is impossible to tell whether a sound is coming from a centre speaker or a phantom centre.
• There is more chance of the mix sounding as intended.
• In my experience of homes and hi-fi showrooms, the centre speaker is often different or smaller than the left and right speakers, and badly positioned, which is worrying if all the important elements like lead vocal, bass kick and snare drum are in it.
• The things in the centre of a mix are often the loudest too, so it is sensible to share the load between two channels allowing it all to be louder.
• Save money - buy better left and right speakers using money saved from not buying centre and use your AV amp/receiver to route the centre channel to the phantom centre - an easy setting on most.

One thing I found was that sharing a sound across all three speakers at once can be a problem. There are many reasons why a phantom centre and a real centre will almost never be in exactly the same position, and when they are in different positions there will be sound colouration due to slight phase shifting.

These are all very good points. Personally, with 5.1 surround releases, I found that I like the center channel to contain the lead vocal only with little steering added for depth to the left & right channels. All music should be contained to the remaining channels only.

 

[Owen Smith]

Are there similar pages for A Night At The Opera DVD-A and Greatest Video Hits 1 and 2? If there are I can't find them om Brian May's site.

 

[Failed Muso]

Are there similar pages for A Night At The Opera DVD-A and Greatest Video Hits 1 and 2? If there are I can't find them om Brian May's site.

If there are, I can't find them. Brian's site is a decidedly shoddy affair, to say the least.

However, there is this superb article from the excellent Sound on Sound magazine...

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun02/articles/queensurround.asp

 

[Owen Smith]

If there are, I can't find them. Brian's site is a decidedly shoddy affair, to say the least.

However, there is this superb article from the excellent Sound on Sound magazine...

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun02/articles/queensurround.asp

The thing that struck me in that URL was how cutting edge 24 channel 24/96 transfer was at the time. Raid arrays to fit it in, almost limits of transfer rates, carrying hard discs and DVD-ROMs across the Atlantic to transfer the data. My word how much easier the technology makes it all today, which makes the lack of new surround mixes for HFPA discs all the more difficult to understand.

 

[Q8]

Although the 'virtual' surround systems don't really work for me, I've ran test tones through the system enough that I know where each channel is positioned in the 'headphone' space, so I can get an idea of the mix.

I found that with Dolby Headphone too, you have to train your brain with test tones before you can really enjoy Dolby Headphone

 

[bmoura]

I found that with Dolby Headphone too, you have to train your brain with test tones before you can really enjoy Dolby Headphone

I agree with Disclord. Most of the virtual headphone Surround Sound systems like Dolby Headphone are not convincing at all. I do have the Smyth Realiser and that system, using the HRTF theories, is very convincing - albeit very expensive as well. As my Dad always says "you get what you pay for". Very true here.

 

[Neil Palfreyman]

Just giving Nosound's "Lightdark" re-issue a first spin. The 5.1 MLP 48k/24 sounds truly wonderful. Giancarlo has really excelled himself on this one.

 

[DuncanS]

The Pixies 5.1 Blu-ray (all their albums in 5.1 on the disc) from the "Minotaur" 8 Disc Box Set (5x CD, 2x DVD-V, 1x Blu-ray) which arrived today. Very clear audio, not the most exciting of surround mixes so far, very front centric, with multi-tracked guitars etc. mainly in the rear. A much under rated band IMHO, who now seem to be gaining more recognition.

 

[timbre4]

10cc - The Original Soundtrack on AVCHD 5.1 upmix by DKA

Pretty nice I must say. Kudos to DKA again!

 

[bossfan]

Dylan - Blonde on Blonde

 

[colsky]

A lot of bloody coughing and sneezing in my office, unfortunately in surround!

 

[jamesdak]

Got the Bjork Surrounded Box Set in the mail yesterday. Stayed up late listening to it and have another disc in right now. Bjork has always been one of those artist I have to be in the mood for but all I can say right now is brilliant. Like has been already noted many times, even though "only" DTS 5.1 the sound is excellent on my modest system. She really is in a world of her own isn't she? One difference in surround philosophy from many is the fact that her vocals seem to pretty much be evenly spread throughout the channels not center channel focused like so many other mixes. But that does work for her music I think since her voice is really just another instrument in most of her songs. I already have several of her albums in stereo but without a doubt they are whole new experiences and just seem more natural in sound.

 

[IMachine]

Elton - Madman Across The Water SACD.
Everytime a wonderful listening.