New Surround Master coming! Its a jump to the left and a step to the right

[DuncanS]

So, if these are only outs and not ins, it doesn't look like his receiver has the option for analog multi-channel ins, is that what you see?

Unfortunately yes

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Unfortunately yes

No cigar for me, I guess I need to go back and re-enforce my self affirmations. I'd bet there's a work around some way though!

 

[bob.stek]

I am in a similar boat to some others here. Set-up advice needed!

My equipment: Marantz SR-5011, Oppo 203, Teac PD-H600 CD player, Fire TV Cube, Tablo live TV player, Pioneer PL-1000a linear tracking turntable alternating with my Technics SL-1210 Mk 5, Objective DAC (not currently in use), Hagerman ‘Ripper’ phono pre-amp w/ USB out (possibly to be replaced by a Schiit Jil and a modified Hagerman Bugle ‘record drop’ no-RIAA curve phono pre-amp), SQ-to-5.1 FLAC conversion software (Stereo Lab) on a MacMini, plus a NAS media server, and of course an Involve Sound Master ver. 1 (and ver. 2 on order)(replaced my Fosgate-Tate). (Plus an Apt-Holman pre-amp, Phase Linear Auto-Correlator II, and unknown-if-working Technics SH-400 CD-4 demodulator, but that’s secondary to my request).

My front speakers are Infinity Renaissance 80’s, with a cute little AR center channel from an AR HB5C home theater set (not using the sub-woofer that came with it or the other four speakers); rear surrounds are Paradigm MiniMonitors. I don’t usually use the Marantz’s built in amps – I output from the Marantz the FL and FR to a modified Carver M-1.0t and the RR and LR to a Musical Designs rebuilt/modified Hafler DH-220, though I do use the Marantz to drive the Center speaker currently (I’d change that to output from the Surround Master but then I’d need a mono amp for it ☹ ). L-o-n-g description and questions follow . . .

I was heavily invested in quadraphonics way back when. Nearly 2 years ago I purchased the Involve Audio Surround Master SQ quad decoder and substituted it for my Tate-Fosgate decoder and began to re-live my youthful quad days (Bill Chases’ ‘Open Up Wide’ blasts the trumpet solo from LF to RF to RR to LR and then swirls the rest of the band around you – my ‘go to’ for testing channel separation). Then last year I finally bit the bullet and bought a Marantz SR-5011 knowing that I would eventually use it as a pre-amp/processor for two of my vintage modified stereo power amps. Throw in my ‘smart’ Samsung TV for video and a Tablo 2-tuner for OTA viewing and recording, plus watching DVD’s and Blu-rays on my Oppo (and sometimes CD’s), and add my Teac PD-H600 CD player, and you pretty much have the idea. Oops, nearly forgot my Niles Speaker Selector (unused now, I used it to switch between the speaker outputs from my previous AVR and my vintage amp to my front speakers when I had my Apt-Holman as the pre-amp for my turntable(s)).

So, why am I here? I am painfully out-of-date on the various audio formats beyond quad, and have always used the 5.0 speaker setup mentioned above for my AV receiver setup (never used a separate sub-woofer as my Ren 80’s with 200 wpc behind them vibrate the living room sufficiently well for my tastes). At my age I am happy to listen to my 1000 LP’s and 200+ CD’s without 7.1 or Atmos or any other combination of amps and speakers. When watching Netflix or Amazon Prime or a DVD/Blu-ray I am satisfied to be enveloped in whatever soundfield my setup can reproduce given the surround parameters the Marantz SR-5011 cleverly decodes on its own. Don’t have any SACD, DVD-A or anything beyond LP’s or CD’s for audio (except I intend to digitize my collection to multi-channel FLAC to stream from my Austor 5002T NAS (w/ HDMI 1.4 output). But as I immerse myself in learning the new technology and terminology (i.e., catching up from my 1970’s mindset) in this and similar forums, I have little experience in finding the optimum way to connect my equipment together to meet my goals. So that’s where you guys/gals can help me out, I hope. (Chucky – looking for a challenge?)

I am looking to get well-reasoned advice on how to connect my system together so that I might conveniently enjoy:
1 – 2 channel stereo reproduction from stereo sources - LP’s, CD’s, FM, internet streaming, or more frequently . . .
2 – either 4.0 or 5.0 ‘pseudo-quad’/ ambiance recovery / AVR processor-enhanced / playback of stereo source material (whether LP. CD, FM tuner, internet radio, 2 channel FLAC, MP3, whatever) as processed by either my Involve Surround Master or the Marantz’s built-in modes (is it possible to have a choice of either?).
3 – Multi-channel FLAC playback from my NAS
4 – Properly decoded 5.0 audio (via the Marantz or Surround Master)(still don’t think I really want a sub-woofer unless it’s flat down to about 10 Hz ) from video sources (streaming, Blu-ray, DVD – and whatever semi-decent audio I can get from my OTA TV antenna – I hate f&*%ing cable/satellite companies - just sayin’).

I realize that my setup for recoding my quad LP’s will be temporary (as temporary as it can be recording 1000 LP’s) and perhaps slightly different from my ‘standard’ setup, but I don’t mind unplugging and re-plugging a few RCA cables when necessary. But I am currently gob-smacked to figure out what combination of multi-channel RCA I/O and HDMI 1.4/2.0a, co-ax or SPDIF connections (I also have an unused StarTech converter, coaxial/Toslink SPDIF to stereo RCA out) need to go where to give me the best audio quality / most flexibility. I am not even sure if my wired internet connection should go to the Marantz, the Samsung TV, the Fire TV Cube or to the Oppo, or to all four! Or just use wireless on all? (though I always prefer wired – and should I disconnect the wireless, i.e., not do the wireless setup on some?). If the Marantz is the ‘control center,’ do I use the HDMI connection from the Oppo to the Marantz HDMI? Or to the Samsung HDMI for video (does the ARC connection relay the audio back to the Marantz or do I need to do something else?) Should I move my NAS from the computer room to the living room because of its HDMI (1.4) output? Should that connect to the Marantz, or leave it where it is and just stream? Do I have to stream to the Oppo if I'm playing multi-channel FLAC and have the Oppo relay it to the Marantz? But the Marantz can use two channel FLAC direcrly, so is that a different playback scenario? The Marantz is connected via the ARC HDMI to the Samsung TV and that is one of the few connections I am reasonably sure of. I am also willing to play CD’s ONLY on the Teac and NOT on the Oppo if that makes a connection choice easier.

This confusion started when I accidentally discovered the Stereo Lab software which could transcode my quad LP’s (SQ, QS and even CD-4) directly (without the need for a hardware decoder) into 5.1 (or 4.0) 6-channel FLAC files. I had to scrounge up an older MacMini since the software only runs on Mac OS. I tested by recording/transcoding my Chase quad album to 5.1 FLAC on a USB stick. When inserted into my Marantz I promptly got a ‘File format error’ and eventually learned that the Marantz would only accept 2-channel FLAC files via USB or NAS. By searching through both older and more recent AV forums I learned that if I used the USB stick in my Oppo, the Oppo could read the multi-channel FLAC and send it to my Marantz for playback. Finally!

Right now I have a tangle of cables interconnected every which way as I daily change my mind about the best way to connect everything up more permanently. And I shudder to ask: do I need Yet Another Piece of Equipment to make this mish-mosh any simpler?

This contest is open to all – first prize is a video of me on my knees bowing to you and thanking you for your ultra-precise, logically reasoned approach to my connection nightmare (oh yeah, if you are going to offer me various ‘optional’ ways for a connection, you had better clearly delineate the pro’s and con’s of each – with my artificial hip and two bad knees, it’s no easy matter to get back up!).

Any takers?

Bob

 

[Clint Eastwood]

I do understand that all this talk becomes monotonous.....for those that are versed on the topic. But, many are not and it just seems like a mental block.

If you want to talk about horizontal resistance or single gene resistance, I'm your man...but all this....

Whoa now bro...what happened to the new...fiscal conscious....3.0 version....the only resistance I need to see is GENE not buying the SM...as much as it is cool....

 

[Steve Schoultz]

Ok my mea culpa. Couldn’t see the specs on Gene’s receiver well enough on my phone. Those analog connections are indeed pre-outs for connection to an external amp. My Denon has 5.1 analog inputs so I’m able to hook up the SM. Sorry Gene it doesn’t look like you can use the SM. The receiver needs 5.1 analog inputs. Does this sound right guys?

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Ok my mea culpa. Couldn’t see the specs on Gene’s receiver well enough on my phone. Those analog connections are indeed pre-outs for connection to an external amp. My Denon has 5.1 analog inputs so I’m able to hook up the SM. Sorry Gene it doesn’t look like you can use the SM. The receiver needs 5.1 analog inputs. Does this sound right guys?

Sadly, yes. I have seen many choices to convert 2 ch analog stereo to HDMI but never one for 4/5.1 analog to HDMI. That would be the work around as long as AD conversion is good. Anybody see anything like this?

 

[chucky3042]

Involve used to have a good hook up diagram on their website using the SM V1 but is MIA since the website update. Perhaps they bring it back because it seems there's a lot of confusion when there shouldn't be.

In as few of words as possible the SM needs a line level 2 ch input as a source. That could be a cassette deck, a TT pre-amp combo or 2 ch out from your receiver. It needs at least 4 analog (optionally 6) analog inputs as 1 group on your receiver. By that I mean a reciever might have multiple 2 ch analog inputs but it needs a single 4/6 ch input. The SM does not do SPDIF/HDMI/or USB anything. Analog in analog out. Just like a QSD-2, Fosgate Tate, etc etc.

If someone wants advice as to how it will hook up with their specific receiver, then be sure to be specific about your receiver model when you post.

I have passed on your suggestion

 

[chucky3042]

Yup sometimes it's hard to take a leap of faith when you really want to know before hand if it's the right purchase. I don't know where you live but I'm in the KC, MO area & you are most welcome to drop by & we'll move some air after I get the new SM.

Alternatly there is the return/repair policy at Involve Audio. It does not spell it out as clearly as most American on line retailers do. Involve simple links you to info about Australian consumer rights.
Return Policy

Maybe Chucky could clarify?

Yep Sonic (we must be on a first name basis now)

If you don't like it or it does not work properly just return it, we will refund in full less our postage cost. So far I can honesty say we have had no returns (a few repairs I admit)

 

[bob.stek]

No problem. You’ve helped me in the past. Well I believe it would work for the configuration you described. You would just connect the two connector RCA cable to the FL and FR outputs on the Oppo. Then connect the other end of the two connector RCA cable to the input of the SM2. You would need 3 pairs of RCA cables to hook up between the 5.1 output of the SM2 to the 5.1 inputs on your receiver. I would suggest you try connecting directly from your Oppo FL/FR and SW to your receiver first and see how you like the sound. In this configuration you are using the DAC in the Oppo instead of the receiver DAC. When you use HDMI you are using the DAC in your receiver. That way you compare the quality of the Oppo DAC vs the Denon DAC. The Oppo 205 has a higher quality DAC than the 203

It's starting to come together with this comment - even for my mega-mish-mosh.

 

[JonUrban]

Maybe this has been asked before in the preceding 27 thread pages but here goes. In order to take the direct audio out of a turntable and put it into the SM2 do we need either a receiver or amplifier in between, or maybe a phono pre-amp, or can we just plug the L and R right into the thing?

 

[Soundfield]

Maybe this has been asked before in the preceding 27 thread pages but here goes. In order to take the direct audio out of a turntable and put it into the SM2 do we need either a receiver or amplifier in between, or maybe a phono pre-amp, or can we just plug the L and R right into the thing?

You'll need a phono preamp of some description Jon.

 

[JonUrban]

You'll need a phono preamp of some description Jon.

I figured as much. I had an old Denon receiver paired with my SM near my PC for play-in's, but the thing is too big. I just read an article about low cost pre-amps and think that this U-Turn one might be a good alternative. I am not going to spend huge bucks on a phono pre-amp at this point. My ears are not good enough any more.

https://www.analogplanet.com/content/u-turn-pluto-versus-schiit-mani-votes-are

 

[Scott65]

OK the rear of your amp has a bunch of RCA inputs above the heading "7 CHANNEL IN" . These are the ones you connect the SM outputs to. Then set the output control for the 7 channel external

I was going to wait for the SM v2 to arrive and plug that into my recently acquired Marantz SR8012. I got impatient and plugged the v1 in today. It (as expected) works well.

 

[fredblue]

I figured as much. I had an old Denon receiver paired with my SM near my PC for play-in's, but the thing is too big. I just read an article about low cost pre-amps and think that this U-Turn one might be a good alternative. I am not going to spend huge bucks on a phono pre-amp at this point. My ears are not good enough any more.

https://www.analogplanet.com/content/u-turn-pluto-versus-schiit-mani-votes-are

do you know if either of those models are "dual mono" configuration?

only asking as i couldn't find the info in the review you posted and since i felt what sounded like an uptick in the sensation of separation with SQ and QS records run through the Surround Master with my newer dual mono preamp, just thought it might be worth mentioning.

 

[JonUrban]

do you know if either of those models are "dual mono" configuration?

only asking as i couldn't find the info in the review you posted and since i felt what sounded like an uptick in the sensation of separation with SQ and QS records run through the Surround Master with my newer dual mono preamp, just thought it might be worth mentioning.

What model are you using?

 

[fredblue]

What model are you using?

Pro-Ject Phono Box S

https://www.project-audio.com/en/product/phono-box-s/

 

[JonUrban]

Pro-Ject Phono Box S

https://www.project-audio.com/en/product/phono-box-s/

ORDERED! Thanks Adam for the info.

 

[fredblue]

ORDERED! Thanks Adam for the info.

you're extreeeeeeeeemely welcome!

for the money its not bad at all, i only have one very small issue with it and it really only affects the initial setup;
the dip switches for MM/MC selection (and input gain, capacitance, impedance.. all that jazz) on the underside of the unit are teeny-weeny and set within a recess so they are a bit trickier to access than i would've liked (i ended up using the wee little non-magnetic flat-bladed screwdriver that came with the AT cartridge to gently nudge the switches into each position) but its not as if you need to get to these in daily usage, its a minor gripe really, i'm just at that stage in a man's life (between birth and death!) where eyesights failing, hands less nimble and i like moaning about nothing!

 

[DuncanS]

Pro-Ject Phono Box S

https://www.project-audio.com/en/product/phono-box-s/

That's the one I've been thinking of getting My amp, although its got a phono input, doesn't have a 'Tape monitor type select' so I can't play LPs and take in an analogue/digital 4.0/5.1 input So I need to add an external MM pre-amp.

 

[hobie1dog]

At least it's April now, so not very long to go now.