New Surround SACDs from Dutton Vocalion; Poco, Johnnie Taylor & Airto/Deodato (July 2018)

[Q-Eight]

Neat.

I just recently received the Cantamos Q8 to complete the Poco foursome. I have to admit it's a very UN-Columbia mix with the drums sort of surrounding you - it's really one of those mixes where it's trying very hard to give you that "in the studio" feeling. I liked it. I'm in for that one.

Definitely in for the Johnnie Taylors. Heck, I've been pushing for those for years - especially Eargasm in Discrete! Amazing! Thanks for listening, D-V!

Dunno if I'm in for the Deodato two-fer. It's not really my cup of tea AND not being discrete.... really on the fence on that one. But I am glad that they fully disclosed these were SQ-decoded.... imagine how pissed off everyone would be if they ordered believing it to be the discrete master only to wind up with an SQ decode? Kudos to D-V for being up front and honest about it.

 

[steelydave]

Just for clarity's sake, the Airto/Deodato two-fer is two albums:

The Airto solo studio album called Fingers from 1973, and the co-billed Airto / Deodato In Concert album from 1974.

Fingers is from the discrete 4-channel quad master tape, and it features a discrete Creed Taylor/Rudy Van Gelder quad mix not unlike the mixes on the Deodato Prelude/Deodato 2 twofer that Vocalion put out last year.

It's only In Concert that's presented from a decoded SQ-encoded master tape. I normally have a deep aversion to any kind of matrix decodes, and if this were a studio album, I probably would've advised D-V to skip it - I'm the kind of guy who would generally rather listen to a Q8 of anything over even the best Surround Master or Tate decoded version of the same material.

However, I own the Q8 of In Concert and (I think I mentioned this upthread) it's what I'd call a "barely quad". It's been some time since I listened to it, but it sounded like they mixed the album completely in stereo, and then later on decided to add some string section overdubs to Deodato's 3 songs. So in the quad mix, the only thing in the rears are these occasional string overdubs, which represent probably 25% of the total playing time. The rest of the time it's just some artificial hall reverb in the rears - because the album (aside from the strings) was seemingly mixed in stereo, even the applause etc. is in the front. As @fredblue astutely noted earlier, an SQ decode of an album like this can actually turn out better than a discrete version, because of some of the unintentional phase-related shifting like in the case of Santana's Lotus. Decoding the SQ-encoded stereo master of that album actually yields a more active horseshoe-shaped sound field, whereas the actual discrete version on the recent Japanese SACD is much more tame by comparison and I expect D-Vs take on In Concert will be similar, if not better.

I can understand when people are disappointed that a discrete quad master doesn't exist, and believe me, no one feels that disappointment than me, the guy that spent the better part of a week researching and writing about these albums, but in the case of In Concert, it's much less of a disappointment than if it were some four-channel studio masterpiece. In standard stereo or SQ decoded quad the live performances on In Concert are great, and even if the occasional string overdubs aren't perfectly placed in the rears, the music is still great. The real attraction on this two-fer is Fingers, and I hope that at least a few people will discover this unique album thanks to this release - as @winopener said, it bears a lot of similarities to Santana's Borboletta album (aside from the lead guitar), which both Airto and Flora Purim appear on. So if you like your jazz-fusion with a South American twist, it's well worth checking out.

But I am glad that they fully disclosed these were SQ-decoded.... imagine how pissed off everyone would be if they ordered believing it to be the discrete master only to wind up with an SQ decode? Kudos to D-V for being up front and honest about it.

I'm glad someone said this - Mike asked for my opinion on this, and I said that D-V are held in such high regard here (and elsewhere) when it comes to quality that it was worth being upfront about sources as the risk of damaging that reputation wasn't worth it. As you can probably see from some of the responses - and I should say, everyone has the right to raise concerns and ask questions - it would've been easier in the short term to say nothing. How many people other than me have heard the discrete version anyway to compare? I hope, however, that this reassures people about Mike Dutton and his whole team's commitment to quality, and that if you're buying anything from him, you can basically do so sight unseen/unheard, knowing that the utmost care has been taken to present whatever you've bought in the best quality possible.

 

[winopener]

Dunno if I'm in for the Deodato two-fer. It's not really my cup of tea AND not being discrete.... really on the fence on that one. But I am glad that they fully disclosed these were SQ-decoded.... imagine how pissed off everyone would be if they ordered believing it to be the discrete master only to wind up with an SQ decode? Kudos to D-V for being up front and honest about it.

Fingers is discrete and a excellent quad mix; i'm totally fond of this album since 1975 and it's the only QR i have -all else on tape is on q8 format. Weird as it seems, i've spent 10$ more for the Q8 than for the QR; after looking for years and years for a tape version, Q8 and QR appeared on ebay from different sellers on the same week, and i ended with both. Never seen the QR again, and the Q8 three or four times.

 

[Snood]

Love ya DV Love ya Steely

Look Guys & Gals - please do not look this gift horse in the mouth(gift horse being DV) - over an add on bonus to Airto/Fingers (which is fully discrete) as well as everything else to date was.

Urgh no learn lesson.... history will repeat and Dutton might go fuck yall - and yall meaning....us QQ friends

God damn we got Art Garfunkel, Poco, Santana, Guess Who, Rick Derringer, Hues Corp, Johnny Taylor, Deodato, Pure Prairie League, Return to Forever, Jimmy Castor, plus allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the easy listening stuff that yall love in Quad tooooooo

My God......DV is only scratching the surface.

Snood remembers in Orlando when Shaq was in town - Orlando Magic Basketball (Snood hates them) - Shaq based his decision to leave Orlando to the LA Lakers based on a local newspaper call in poll (no internet back then) over whether Shaq was worth 115 mill over 4 or 5 years - the poll only had like a yes or no answer per touchtone -only 5,111 people voted - 90 percent said no and he said fuck it over this, not realizing the total of actual voters or amount of local and national fans not considered that did not even read the freaking newspaper
(and yes this was the excuse to go to LA)........and prob only .00001 percent of season ticket holders voted.

Snood split season tickets with like 4 others.......great seats lower bowl - all sellouts even for the crap teams that came to town. I hated Shaq and The Magic - Fave team was Charlotte Hornets with Alonzo Mourning, Larry Johnson and Mugsy Bogues. Even went to Game 1 of the NBA Finals against Houston and Hakeem Olajuwon, first time Snood ever rooted for the Magic........and Nick Anderson bricked 4 free throws in a row at the end - he just had to make 1 to win.....hmm nobody ever questioned how much he made at Vegas for throwing the game?? But the local nickname Brick Anderson has stuck with him here forever. Snood digress......4 free throws though wow

Snood still hated Shaq.......but was still like wtf Orlando WOW!!!? Annnnnnnnd me still lives in..........umm Snoodville

Please do not make Snood say WTF again? DV is our Shaq.... let's treat them right and be grateful

 

[Q-Eight]

Fingers is discrete and a excellent quad mix; i'm totally fond of this album since 1975 and it's the only QR i have -all else on tape is on q8 format. Weird as it seems, i've spent 10$ more for the Q8 than for the QR; after looking for years and years for a tape version, Q8 and QR appeared on ebay from different sellers on the same week, and i ended with both. Never seen the QR again, and the Q8 three or four times.

I'm glad you and steelydave cleared that up. Thank you for that. I might go for this one then. More so to support D-V, but who knows? I may even enjoy it.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Love ya DV Love ya Steely

Look Guys & Gals - please do not look this gift horse in the mouth(gift horse being DV) - over an add on bonus to Airto/Fingers (which is fully discrete) as well as everything else to date was.

Urgh no learn lesson.... history will repeat and Dutton might go fuck yall - and yall meaning....us QQ friends

God damn we got Art Garfunkel, Poco, Santana, Guess Who, Rick Derringer, Hues Corp, Johnny Taylor, Deodato, Pure Prairie League, Return to Forever, Jimmy Castor, plus allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the easy listening stuff that yall love in Quad tooooooo

My God......DV is only scratching the surface.

Snood remembers in Orlando when Shaq was in town - Orlando Magic Basketball (Snood hates them) - Shaq based his decision to leave Orlando to the LA Lakers based on a local newspaper call in poll (no internet back then) over whether Shaq was worth 115 mill over 4 or 5 years - the poll only had like a yes or no answer per touchtone -only 5,111 people voted - 90 percent said no and he said fuck it over this, not realizing the total of actual voters or amount of local and national fans not considered that did not even read the freaking newspaper
(and yes this was the excuse to go to LA)........and prob only .00001 percent of season ticket holders voted.

Snood split season tickets with like 4 others.......great seats lower bowl - all sellouts even for the crap teams that came to town. I hated Shaq and The Magic - Fave team was Charlotte Hornets with Alonzo Mourning, Larry Johnson and Mugsy Bogues. Even went to Game 1 of the NBA Finals against Houston and Hakeem Olajuwon, first time Snood ever rooted for the Magic........and Nick Anderson bricked 4 free throws in a row at the end - he just had to make 1 to win.....hmm nobody ever questioned how much he made at Vegas for throwing the game?? But the local nickname Brick Anderson has stuck with him here forever. Snood digress......4 free throws though wow

Snood still hated Shaq.......but was still like wtf Orlando WOW!!!? Annnnnnnnd me still lives in..........umm Snoodville

Please do not make Snood say WTF again? DV is our Shaq.... let's treat them right and be grateful

Snoodkins, I'm not a big fan of POLLS. People are SOoooooooo finicky that one second they're in favor of this and the next moment that. It's that simple!

And seriously, I don't think a lot of QUADDIES really appreciate the amount of surround material being released in the last few years, MOST especially by Michael Dutton. We were all despairing when Audio Fidelity ceased production of QUAD/5.1 SACDs and poor Marshall Blonstein, CEO of AF, was always under scrutiny for what he did and did NOT release.

Especially considering what we are asked to pay for these ridiculous overstuffed box sets JUST to get the 5.1 remaster.

And my answer to all the naysayers and chronic complainers: Try starting your own SACD/BD~A reissue company and once you're confronted with the reality of paying insidious prices just for the license and start the remaster duplicating process [in AUSTRIA] let's see how fast you'd all fold like accordions.

Let's be thankful for two things: Jon Urban kept QQ afloat all these years and when he threatened to pull the plug earlier this year a lot of us had mild heart attacks [of the mind] and now that he did NOT let's use this forum for constructive purposes and keep our man in the UK afloat and support his brilliant endeavors.

We may NOT always get what we want, but like POLLs, VOTE with your charge cards and show our man in the UK that not only is he doing a brilliant job but he's trying his hardest to release something for everyone......not JUST you, you or YOU!

BTW, Snood, how MUCH did Shaq get when he 'defected' to LA?

 

[jefe1]

I agree with the above. I buy all ....almost all ....of the DV quad releases. Money talks and I hope they can continue to make money on these releases or there simply won't be anymore.

 

[atrocity]

Correct, but I enjoy to sit back, put the record on and play it through without keeping track of another album coming on.

I mostly agree. An additional advantage to servers/streaming is that it's fairly easy to split these joined discs into their individual albums.

 

[fredblue]

Johnnie-o, Poco, Airto, Deodato (and Chet-o from the previous batch) have arrived!!!

colour pic in the Airto booklet (a first for the DV MultiCh SACDs?)

great attention to detail, with personnel, production & engineer credits, plus of course pages of QQ members' steelydave's comprehensive liner notes;

 

[4-earredwonder]

Johnnie-o, Poco, Airto, Deodato (and Chet-o from the previous batch) have arrived!!!

Congratulations and Happy Listening to a Happy Listener!

And What, NO Angie?

Stereo RACIST?

 

[John Svensson]

Nice Fred, I'm in for all.

 

[fredblue]

Congratulations and Happy Listening to a Happy Listener!

And What, NO Angie?

Stereo RACIST?

thanks Ralphie, i'm home today but got dental surgery this afternoon so won't be able to spin them until tonight (unless i'm in pain, in which case will have to be tomorrow!)

no Angie just yet, I will check out her music first and if it clicks i'll add it to the next order.

"shake it up,
shake it down,
shake it all about,
Disco Ralphie..!"

 

[fredblue]

Nice Fred, I'm in for all.

excellent! we're all in it together!

 

[DuncanS]

My Poco, Taylor, and Airto/Deodato Quads arrived along with the stereo Weather Report So I managed to have no conference calls this afternoon, just this morning! So what to listen to? Its a hot sunny summers day so I listened to the Johnnie Taylor (who I have never heard), so in 76/77 when these were released I had hair more than half way down my back so Disco was a no-no! Now my hair is all the way UP my back I can listen to them

So the two Johnnie Taylor albums are 'classy', nice Quad, amazing voice, I'd say way more R&B/Soul than Disco, so to me more Sam Cooke/Bill Withers/Isley Bros', and some brilliant tracks, a couple just a touch too disco for me...…..still. But overall a great SACD, plus some well known artists appear on it. Dave's liner notes are as informative as we expect - I can tell a lot of work goes into them. Of the Soul/R&B/'Disco' Quad releases from D-V this is my favourite so far.

 

[fredblue]

for anyone here on the fence about the Poco... i cannot begin to tell you how absolutely gob-smacking the surround sound is on this one, just.. i'm speechless.

 

[DuncanS]

I managed to listen to the Airto/Deodato SACD today, great disc. The Airto is Santana-like Jazz-Rock, nice Quad mix, and the live Airto/Deodato is an excellent performance, D-V have done a great job with the SQ decode.

 

[4-earredwonder]

I managed to listen to the Airto/Deodato SACD today, great disc. The Airto is Santana-like Jazz-Rock, nice Quad mix, and the live Airto/Deodato is an excellent performance, D-V have done a great job with the SQ decode.

Indeed, Michael J. Dutton did an amazing job with the SQ encoded tapes on the Airto/Deodato Concert disc. I played it DSD out into my all analogue Parasound P7 preamplifier and what sweet sounds it made. Of course, Airto's Fingers was an absolute delight from start to finish!

The audiophile pedigree of Angie Bofill's two~fer GRT STEREO SACD was another surprise, and as Snood [] commented, she surrounded herself with some ace jazz musicians and Dave Grusin's arrangements caressed her voice with spot on interpretations of some wonderful R&B tunes and originals.

I'm currently spinning Johnnie Taylor's fantastic EARGASM [talk about an Al Green vibe] and will save POCO for my main system listening session later tonight. And thanks to Steelydave [Dave Zimmerman] for his superbly informative liner notes.

The question always arises [and deserves to be REPEATED]: How does D~V give us SO much for SO little? 8 FULL albums, 6 Quadraphonic and 2 in hi res Stereo for LESS than $10 each, delivered? I'm really tired of 'pinching' myself.

Small dreams do come true!

 

[Q-Eight]

The question always arises [and deserves to be REPEATED]: How does D~V give us SO much for SO little? 8 FULL albums, 6 Quadraphonic and 2 in hi res Stereo for LESS than $10 each, delivered? I'm really tired of 'pinching' myself.

Small dreams do come true!

Whatever they're doing, they're doing it right! I hope it's a successful venture for them and I hope they keep it up!

 

[4-earredwonder]

Am currently spinning [finally] POCO [Seven and Cantamos]. Are you kidding me? Were these albums recorded yesterday? Superb! Fredblue's right......an absolute EARGASM.

And anyone who thinks the late 90's 'vintage' DTS Entertainment DTS 5.1 disc of Poco "Crazy Eyes" doesn't need a QUAD mch SACD upgrade SHOULD LISTEN TO THIS D~V sonic 'miracle!'

 

[4-earredwonder]

Airto's FINGERS gets a fist bump. Even my knuckles aredancing. I actually got up and danced and haven't FLOWED like this since I don't know when.

Part of what I term Dutton Vocalion's DIVERGENT SERIES, it points in a positive direction.

Oz [WATFORD] has just become more interesting!