Opeth - Pale Communion 5.1 (Blu-ray)

[pulse]

Something to keep in mind about the surround mix. I'm pretty sure that all of the previous surround mixes by Opeth have been 5.0, not 5.1. Even though this is on Blu-ray, it's likely no different. The LFE is channeled through the main 5 speakers as if all 5 of your speakers are full range. If all of your speakers are full range monitors and you have a good amp pushing them, the bass should be there. If you don't, you'll have to adjust your LFE to both and possibly even tweak your DSP settings to allow the dedicated powered subwoofer to pick it up. Otherwise, the 5.0 mix should be spot on.

 

[Simon_LDT]

Is that confirmed though? I know there is a way to rip the individual channels to check the waveforms and that would prove if the .1 channel has any data/sound in it (I've never done this myself though).

 

[pulse]

Is that confirmed though? I know there is a way to rip the individual channels to check the waveforms and that would prove if the .1 channel has any data/sound in it (I've never done this myself though).

I haven't seen where this has been confirmed and I have not done it myself. I am just going on all the previous surround mixes that have been released in the Opeth catalog that I own. Clearly, the LFE .1 is either much lower DB or it's not there at all if you've got a dedicated sub. And even if there is information there or a waveform, it doesn't mean that in the mix process that the bulk of LFE was intent on 5 full range monitors. I'm at work right now, but when I get my hands back on the BD this evening, I'll see if I can pull the channels and check, unless someone here gets to that before I can.

 

[Nimbatus]

If all of your speakers are full range monitors and you have a good amp pushing them, the bass should be there. If you don't, you'll have to adjust your LFE to both and possibly even tweak your DSP settings to allow the dedicated powered subwoofer to pick it up. Otherwise, the 5.0 mix should be spot on.

But it is not spot on, and it's only with this particular release. I have 5 full range speakers, four of them half-active with a dedicated amp built-in for the bass reproduction plus two subwoofers, all set up properly in a treated room. The DSP-Z7 is not the weakest amp either. I can assure you, this system is more than capable of reproducing a nice bass

The other thing is, it's not just the lack of bass in this mix. It's the whole way the drums are mixed. This is so not Wilson style compared to any other mix he ever did.

 

[Cheezmo]

Something to keep in mind about the surround mix. I'm pretty sure that all of the previous surround mixes by Opeth have been 5.0, not 5.1. Even though this is on Blu-ray, it's likely no different. The LFE is channeled through the main 5 speakers as if all 5 of your speakers are full range. If all of your speakers are full range monitors and you have a good amp pushing them, the bass should be there. If you don't, you'll have to adjust your LFE to both and possibly even tweak your DSP settings to allow the dedicated powered subwoofer to pick it up. Otherwise, the 5.0 mix should be spot on.

There is content on the LFE channel on the Pale Communion blu-ray. I've ripped it and examined the waveform.

 

[Robert van Diggele]

But it is not spot on, and it's only with this particular release. I have 5 full range speakers, four of them half-active with a dedicated amp built-in for the bass reproduction plus two subwoofers, all set up properly in a treated room. The DSP-Z7 is not the weakest amp either. I can assure you, this system is more than capable of reproducing a nice bass

The other thing is, it's not just the lack of bass in this mix. It's the whole way the drums are mixed. This is so not Wilson style compared to any other mix he ever did.

You mentioned the drums before, but mixing drums in the rears is signature SW.

 

[IMachine]

I think we need a poll.

 

[perzon57]

Got this in the post today and played it through.Love it! Very good music and a nice 5.1 mix.Bass is nice and full.Good use of the rear channels.No problems with weak bass here.Easy to follow the bass guitar.

Regards

 

[HomerJAU]

Mine arrived from Amazon UK today in under a week to Australia! (Unexpected joy icon here)


I'll take a listen later today!

 

[HomerJAU]

Definitely low bass on the 5.1. I looked at the waveforms and the the LFE looks low to me although there's info above 40kHz! The Dolby dialnorm is set at -27db. (I can't remember seeing that high previously but I have not taken too much notice)

Apart from missing bass it does sound nice though! Only listened on my PC 5.1 speakers not yet hit my main B&Ws...

DR analysis:

foobar2000 1.3.3 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2014-08-29 15:10:53

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Opeth / Pale Communion (5.1 BDA)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR12 -0.10 dB -17.24 dB 6:46 01-Eternal Rains Will Come
DR12 -0.10 dB -15.24 dB 5:34 02-Cusp Of Eternity
DR13 -0.10 dB -18.14 dB 10:52 03-Moon Above, Sun Below
DR14 -0.10 dB -21.59 dB 4:50 04-Elysian Woes
DR13 -0.10 dB -16.34 dB 4:34 05-Goblin
DR12 -0.10 dB -16.77 dB 7:33 06-River
DR12 -0.10 dB -16.95 dB 7:44 07-Voice Of Treason
DR13 -0.10 dB -19.40 dB 7:59 08-Faith In Others
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 8
Official DR value: DR12

Samplerate: 96000 Hz
Channels: 6
Bits per sample: 24
Bitrate: 5855 kbps
Codec: FLAC
================================================================================

 

[HomerJAU]

Examples: end of track 7 - Voice of Treason

 

[Wildman]

That picture says a thousand words. Exactly what I heard on my first play. My LFE issue turned out to be an advantage for this mix. As soon as I switched from bass managment to full range all was well.

 

[Wildman]

Is it just me, or does the center look a little weird also. It looks like some of the peaks are clipped off.

 

[Nimbatus]

You mentioned the drums before, but mixing drums in the rears is signature SW.

Indeed, he puts parts of the overheads and room mics to the rears. But he usually doesn't forget to mix in the direct mics.

Reading the comments here, I strongly believe there are some incompatibility issues with this disc. I'll give up for now, since I don't see a solution other than waiting for the day I might purchase another player and see what happens then.

 

[HomerJAU]

Played a couple tracks on my main system and there's plenty of bass in all speakers except the sub. Seems that channel is mastered lower.

Nice sounding disc! Although my wife won't want to listen. Some not her taste.

 

[fredblue]

Definitely low bass on the 5.1. I looked at the waveforms and the the LFE looks low to me although there's info above 40kHz! The Dolby dialnorm is set at -27db. (I can't remember seeing that high previously but I have not taken too much notice)

Apart from missing bass it does sound nice though! Only listened on my PC 5.1 speakers not yet hit my main B&Ws...

DR analysis:

foobar2000 1.3.3 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2014-08-29 15:10:53

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Opeth / Pale Communion (5.1 BDA)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR12 -0.10 dB -17.24 dB 6:46 01-Eternal Rains Will Come
DR12 -0.10 dB -15.24 dB 5:34 02-Cusp Of Eternity
DR13 -0.10 dB -18.14 dB 10:52 03-Moon Above, Sun Below
DR14 -0.10 dB -21.59 dB 4:50 04-Elysian Woes
DR13 -0.10 dB -16.34 dB 4:34 05-Goblin
DR12 -0.10 dB -16.77 dB 7:33 06-River
DR12 -0.10 dB -16.95 dB 7:44 07-Voice Of Treason
DR13 -0.10 dB -19.40 dB 7:59 08-Faith In Others
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 8
Official DR value: DR12

Samplerate: 96000 Hz
Channels: 6
Bits per sample: 24
Bitrate: 5855 kbps
Codec: FLAC
================================================================================

DialNorm strikes again.. -27dB..!! :yikes

I've yet to hear any convincing argument as to why you'd want Dialog Normalization on a music only disc. For movies I get it but music, hmm..

Has anybody here who is running their BDP via HDMI tried setting it to output LPCM rather than Bitstreaming the Dolby encode?

Ordinarily on my setup this has the effect of stripping out the DialNorm (or rather its ignoring any DialNorm flag I guess?) from Dolby (both lossy DD and lossless True HD) with interesting, usually what sound like me to favourable results.

 

[keenly]

My order from WOWHD is delayed. Very annoying.

 

[keenly]

If this has been messed up complain!

Jon Astley didn't master it did he? I was really looking forward to this one and avoided the reviews until now. Does not sound good at all. Steve would not of messed this up; he loves Opeth and would of done his best work.

 

[keenly]

Indeed, he puts parts of the overheads and room mics to the rears. But he usually doesn't forget to mix in the direct mics.

Reading the comments here, I strongly believe there are some incompatibility issues with this disc. I'll give up for now, since I don't see a solution other than waiting for the day I might purchase another player and see what happens then.

When I get it I will tell you what is up. My system is perfectly set up with help from experts. I will no if something is not right.

There's high rez disc on the market that have been messed up and not recalled; eg Megadeth Live Blu Ray; has a MAJOR error; the music in fronts has also been put in left rear but not right rear. This is not a mixing choice; it is an error; they should of recalled and replaced all discs.

 

[keenly]

Examples: end of track 7 - Voice of Treason

View attachment 15889View attachment 15890

Unnecessary compression added!