SACD to ISO with Oppo & Pioneer BD players!

[GOS]

Forgive me if some of this has been covered. Also, I am no expert with converting DSD discs (SACD) to .iso images!

I can tell you that converting DSD to 24/88.2 is a high def to high def conversion and any loss would be well within perception bias. You will get more sound fidelity by converting DSD to 24/88.2 PCM and listening through pro PCM DA converters than listening to the DSD program natively with consumer grade DSD DA converters. So there's that.

I believe Foobar and other apps that convert DSD tp PCM give you the option to reduce the gain. A DSD to PCM conversion can give you data that goes above zero! You can give yourself a safety margin of -6db. Better is to convert the files to 32 bit floating point instead of 24 bit fixed. Then you can lower the gain precisely with a DAW app as needed to end up normalized just under 0db. Then render to 24 bit flac files.

As far as 88.2k vs. 176.4k, 88.2k is a container that can hold the complete fidelity of an audio file. 176.4k can be used for processing work (especially restoration work) and have some better results with the math involved in certain processing. When you're done working on it, 88.2k will contain the complete final result audio with no loss. (Same thing for 96k vs. 192k.)

Well - Jim. Most of what you say there is over my head. Which illustrates why this is all so confusing to me. You say converting DSD to 24/88.2 PCM. As far as I know, there are no options to do that in Foobar. PCM? I dunno. I see Flac, WAV, and some other things that mean very little to me. For me, it really has to be a check the box thing. If it requires understanding what happens if I "do this, or do that" Isn't gonna happen. Unfortunately.

 

[GOS]

Well - Jim. Most of what you say there is over my head. Which illustrates why this is all so confusing to me. You say converting DSD to 24/88.2 PCM. As far as I know, there are no options to do that in Foobar. PCM? I dunno. I see Flac, WAV, and some other things that mean very little to me. For me, it really has to be a check the box thing. If it requires understanding what happens if I "do this, or do that" Isn't gonna happen. Unfortunately.

Sort of like sticking a novice in the cockpit of a 727 and telling them to start flipping switches and understand what the outcome is. That's me with all this damn audio stuff.

 

[jimfisheye]

Well - Jim. Most of what you say there is over my head. Which illustrates why this is all so confusing to me. You say converting DSD to 24/88.2 PCM. As far as I know, there are no options to do that in Foobar. PCM? I dunno. I see Flac, WAV, and some other things that mean very little to me. For me, it really has to be a check the box thing. If it requires understanding what happens if I "do this, or do that" Isn't gonna happen. Unfortunately.

Foobar does have a plugin you can download to convert DSD digital files to PCM digital files.

PCM digital is what most of the world uses. It's a format to digitize analog audio into samples (eg. 96,000 samples of 24 bit samples per second - CD would be 44,100 16 bit samples per second). Think of it like film. Run the samples past your ear fast enough and the audio puts itself back together. WAV is the file container that holds the data. FLAC is a lossless compression of WAV. mp3 is a crude 10% - 20% of the audio data (throw away data to compress).

DSD is literally a different digital format. We're still sampling the analog audio but the format/pattern of ones and zeros is different. It requires hardware that operates with this different language. WAV and FLAC containers cannot be used. You see, Sony decided that there was a problem with 24/96 PCM (hint: there wasn't) and thought that not only every consumer but also every studio would replace the most expensive pieces of audio gear - the AD/DA converters - with DSD converters and the world would change. Sony are idiots like that! (They gave up and bluray - which uses standard PCM - is their current format.)

So the format should be shunned IMHO but on the bright side it IS a high def format that delivers modern full fidelity audio.

That help?

 

[GOS]

Foobar does have a plugin you can download to convert DSD digital files to PCM digital files.

PCM digital is what most of the world uses. It's a format to digitize analog audio into samples (eg. 96,000 samples of 24 bit samples per second - CD would be 44,100 16 bit samples per second). Think of it like film. Run the samples past your ear fast enough and the audio puts itself back together. WAV is the file container that holds the data. FLAC is a lossless compression of WAV. mp3 is a crude 10% - 20% of the audio data (throw away data to compress).

DSD is literally a different digital format. We're still sampling the analog audio but the format/pattern of ones and zeros is different. It requires hardware that operates with this different language. WAV and FLAC containers cannot be used. You see, Sony decided that there was a problem with 24/96 PCM (hint: there wasn't) and thought that not only every consumer but also every studio would replace the most expensive pieces of audio gear - the AD/DA converters - with DSD converters and the world would change. Sony are idiots like that! (They gave up and bluray - which uses standard PCM - is their current format.)

So the format should be shunned IMHO but on the bright side it IS a high def format that delivers modern full fidelity audio.

That help?

I'm interested in that DSD to PCM plug in. I can't find it. Rather, I don't know the name of it. I searched Foobar and didn't see something that rang a bell.

 

[HomerJAU]

I'm interested in that DSD to PCM plug in. I can't find it. Rather, I don't know the name of it. I searched Foobar and didn't see something that rang a bell.

I have it but I'm on holiday. I get back tomorrow so if you haven't got it by then I will send a link.

You should be able to find it using a Google search for DSD or SACD Foobar

edit: https://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/

 

[GOS]

I have it but I'm on holiday. I get back tomorrow so if you haven't got it by then I will send a link.

You should be able to find it using a Google search for DSD or SACD Foobar

edit: https://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/

Oh! Well, I already have a SACD plugin. I didn't know the DSD to PCM was the same as the SACD plugin. See? I'm clueless. It's gotta be word for word, or I get lost.

 

[ssully]

Using Autosript and iso2dvd_gui on a PC (Win 10), and a Pioneer BDP-80FD (autoplay and autoresume turned off), I got this far:

1) connect player and laptop to my lan router via ethernet, player is assigned IP 10.0.1.8
1) insert USB stick, tray opens
2) SACD loaded
3) iso2dvd_gui started
4) set parameters to raw iso output, server input ,
5) input IP (10.0.1.8:2002, the port seems to be automatic)
6) hit execute
7) result:

Failed to connect
libsacdread: Can't open 10.0.1.8:2002 for reading



fwiw I tried using the files in the 'SACD-extract-BDP160' download instead, and running sacd.cmd (with IP edited in) on the command line instead of using the GUI, same result. (sacd_extract.exe starts but quits after about 15 sec)

tried assigning a manual static IP, same result.

tried connecting laptop directly to player, but it does not show as a device

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I have never come across an address like the one you list. Almost all I have seen are in the form 192.168.n.nn
What are the IP addresses of your computer and modem/router?

 

[GOS]

I have never come across an address like the one you list. Almost all I have seen are in the form 192.168.n.nn
What are the IP addresses of your computer and modem/router?

I agree with Kal. I just double checked the IP of my Oppo and it's 192.168.1.15
Also, I wonder Sully if you can "see" your blu-ray player on the network? Checking the network from my laptop, here is what I can see....
Probably I'm stating the obvious...but this stuff isn't obvious to me, so forgive me.

 

[himey]

Using Autosript and iso2dvd_gui on a PC (Win 10), and a Pioneer BDP-80FD (autoplay and autoresume turned off), I got this far:

1) connect player and laptop to my lan router via ethernet, player is assigned IP 10.0.1.8
1) insert USB stick, tray opens
2) SACD loaded
3) iso2dvd_gui started
4) set parameters to raw iso output, server input ,
5) input IP (10.0.1.8:2002, the port seems to be automatic)
6) hit execute
7) result:

Failed to connect
libsacdread: Can't open 10.0.1.8:2002 for reading



fwiw I tried using the files in the 'SACD-extract-BDP160' download instead, and running sacd.cmd (with IP edited in) on the command line instead of using the GUI, same result. (sacd_extract.exe starts but quits after about 15 sec)

tried assigning a manual static IP, same result.

tried connecting laptop directly to player, but it does not show as a device

I just pm'ed you. As others have said, the ip has to be exact and starts 192.xx.xx.xx:2002

 

[himey]

I agree with Kal. I just double checked the IP of my Oppo and it's 192.168.1.15
Also, I wonder Sully if you can "see" your blu-ray player on the network? Checking the network from my laptop, here is what I can see....
Probably I'm stating the obvious...but this stuff isn't obvious to me, so forgive me.

View attachment 27761

Right click on Oppo icon in network gives properties including ip address if you do a direct connection. Not sure if you use a router...

 

[GOS]

Right click on Oppo icon in network gives properties including ip address if you do a direct connection. Not sure if you use a router...

No worries - I have the process figured out. I was just rambling. I also have an APP on my phone that shows me all the network, along with assigned IP addresses and what is connected direct and what is connected wirelessly.

 

[GOS]

The other day I had to reinstall Foobar2000 due to some troubles. I tried to remember which plugins I needed. Probably I've missed a few here and there for all the things I need to do.

Today first time trying to Quick Convert an ISO (ripped from SACD) to a Flac via Foobar. Now when I do this, I get to the point of selecting the folder where I want to place the newly created Flac files and I get stopped. HEre is the final window I get, and normally at this point, it is already converting and sticking in my selected folder.

EDIT - Nevermind, I found it. I downloaded something called Free_Encoder_Pack 2016-09-09.exe from Foobar site. That took care of it.

 

[ubertrout]

I have never come across an address like the one you list. Almost all I have seen are in the form 192.168.n.nn
What are the IP addresses of your computer and modem/router?

Use of 10.x.x.x IP addresses is pretty common - most home routers only use 192.168.x.x, but that limits you to 65k IP addresses. Not a big deal on a home network, but it matters on an enterprise private network. More explanation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_network

 

[GOS]

OK gang. I have another question, that I'm sure the fix is super easy. So, there must be some setting, in Foobar that is limiting the eventual loudness of my rips. I just ripped Hearts by America and I have to turn it up way louder than most other rips I did last week. Again, I had to reinstall Foobar, so something probably isn't set right. IN other words, normally when I have my Denon volume at 70 and that is pretty loud. Now, at 70, it's at a very modest loudness.

Is it something in these settings that likely make the rip much quieter? I don't like it this quiet...I have to really crank it to get what I'm used to...

 

[sukothai]

OK gang. I have another question, that I'm sure the fix is super easy. So, there must be some setting, in Foobar that is limiting the eventual loudness of my rips. I just ripped Hearts by America and I have to turn it up way louder than most other rips I did last week. Again, I had to reinstall Foobar, so something probably isn't set right. IN other words, normally when I have my Denon volume at 70 and that is pretty loud. Now, at 70, it's at a very modest loudness.

Is it something in these settings that likely make the rip much quieter? I don't like it this quiet...I have to really crank it to get what I'm used to...

View attachment 27763

You will need to adjust the "PCM Volume:". The correct way to do it is to convert it at +0dB and then test it with foobar2000 DRM to find the loudest track and then run the conversion to PCM again with the "PCM Volume:" setting set to bring the loudest channel/track to 0dB or a little below 0dB. For example if the +0dB conversion has a DRM of -3.15dB at the loudest peak, then run the PCM conversion a second time with "PCM Volume:" set to +3dB. This will still leave just a little bit of headroom (.15dB) on that loudest peak to avoid distortion.

 

[GOS]

You will need to adjust the "PCM Volume:". The correct way to do it is to convert it at +0dB and then test it with foobar2000 DRM to find the loudest track and then run the conversion to PCM again with the "PCM Volume:" setting set to bring the loudest channel/track to 0dB or a little below 0dB. For example if the +0dB conversion has a DRM of -3.15dB at the loudest peak, then run the PCM conversion a second time with "PCM Volume:" set to +3dB. This will still leave just a little bit of headroom (.15dB) on that loudest peak to avoid distortion.

yikes. OK. That seems like a lot of extra work. But thanks for the explanation. I'll try it.

let me ask this. Is having it set at 0db essentially copying it at the same levels as the SACD has? If that makes sense....

 

[sukothai]

yikes. OK. That seems like a lot of extra work. But thanks for the explanation. I'll try it.

It is a lot of work and takes a lot of time. I wish there were an easier way.


You can always just roll the dice and try +6dB on the first conversion.

 

[GOS]

It is a lot of work and takes a lot of time. I wish there were an easier way.


You can always just roll the dice and try +6dB on the first conversion.

notice I edited my post earlier....what you think??

 

[ssully]

I agree with Kal. I just double checked the IP of my Oppo and it's 192.168.1.15

And mine for the BDP-80 is 10.0.1.8
That's what the BDP itself reports in its Network-->Information view. This is with the BDP set to 'Auto' network settings, rather than 'Manual'.
And its what my laptop reports when I click 'Properties' on the BDP icon in Networks view.



I have also tried 'Manual' and changed the IP address (and only that, no other network settings) to 192.168.1.106 , which is the default IP in the sacd.cmd file. Same result.

Also, I wonder Sully if you can "see" your blu-ray player on the network?

Yes. It display as two icons, actually, both with the same IP address