Stuff that sounds amazing with the Surround Master

[chucky3042]

I've never heard Lexicon Logic 7 (but I did lust after their products) but I had a Sansui QSD-1 and Fosgate Tate II in house together for a number of years. In their respective stereo to surround synthesis modes they both offered 270 deg wrap around sound. It really brought a lot of enhancement to be enjoyed. But they sounded a bit different. The Sansui synthesis also enhanced the center back reverb and the Fosgate did not. Subjectively the Sansui method seemed a bit fuller (rounder?) than the Fosgate but the latter sounded a bit dryer (cleaner?) than the Sansui.

Absolutely true the SMv2 never offends and is a big step up from DPL II/. I still think it has room to improve (for stereo. Perfect for QS/SQ!) & most folks are un-aware of that as all they can compare to is something Dolby/Neo:6, or as on my pre-pro also, Anthem Logic.

The key to getting better wrap around sound from stereo with out increasing artifacts is a certain amount of control over the effect. The Fosgate offered only one mode for stereo enhance (but the S&IC did have variable) and the Sansui stuff had 3 modes of decoding, Hall (forward oriented), QS, and wrap around synthesis. I'll never pass up the chance mentioning to Chucky that some sort of similar enhancement will be much more value added than Two Speaker Surround. IIRC he feels there's enough goodness baked into the SM it doesn't need this. How about a little frosting on that cake?

He also says including too much stuff will confuse the consumer. Here's how you include those functions with input/output/balance controls & still make it look simple & attractive:

View attachment 82565

Well, it's a crappy picture but it really look quite elegant & non-intimidating in person. The QSD-2 is another good example of doing a lot with a simple front panel design.

If I have Chucky's attention you can do away with the"modes"& just have single pot for phase balance with neutral, forward, and wrap around points indicated. I certainly think the SM would benefit from this as well as an input L/R balance control. Maybe on the new up coming pre-amp?

I am really thinking about it!!

 

[ar surround]

I am really thinking about it!!

If you build it, they will come...

 

[MidiMagic]

So today I saw a 5.1.2 soundbar with Atmos for half the price of Surround Master...??? How?

 

[Sonik Wiz]

So today I saw a 5.1.2 soundbar with Atmos for half the price of Surround Master...??? How?

The same way a lot of crap sells for less than something good. I think you know that.

 

[chucky3042]

So today I saw a 5.1.2 soundbar with Atmos for half the price of Surround Master...??? How?

Its a great question really. I remember looking at the insides of a pioneer 5.1 channel "receiver" selling for $600. I remember doing a rough guess costing if we made it in say 500 off quantities and just cost parts and labour would have been $2000!
The Asians make things in millions and prices are totally screwed down. I remember being in south Korea at Samsung HQ and Dawson mentioned to them that they would be able to cost things down a bit....... The Samsung guys reply was "you have no idea".

The typical ratio of cost to shop RRP is 4:1 in hifi, and the more top end the bigger that ratio. I can assure you the QQ get it at a way better ratio of under 2:1. Our distributors will push that a lot higher shortly but the price has been retained only for QQ as you guys have been so supportive.

 

[ar surround]

@chucky3042 , in the document you provided in post #776 titled, Objective comparison of Involve Audio against Prologic, Prologic II, Neo-6 and Neural audio, listening to standard stereo tracks decoded out to 4 channels, a weakness of the Involve Audio decode system is described as:

"Occasionally part of an instrument will be separated i.e. ride symbol being in the rear while the rest of the drum kit is in the front. This is rare, and won’t happen if the audio is explicitly encoded for surround. Most likely a function of the way it was recorded, and since it doesn’t jump around inside the surround image, it isn’t an unpleasant effect."

For this quadhead, that is not a weakness. It's actually really cool.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Yello One Second album
-try it, you might like it!
and it decodes spectacularly like a WWII Enigma machine

 

[MidiMagic]

@chucky3042 , in the document you provided in post #776 titled, Objective comparison of Involve Audio against Prologic, Prologic II, Neo-6 and Neural audio, listening to standard stereo tracks decoded out to 4 channels, a weakness of the Involve Audio decode system is described as:

"Occasionally part of an instrument will be separated i.e. ride symbol being in the rear while the rest of the drum kit is in the front. This is rare, and won’t happen if the audio is explicitly encoded for surround. Most likely a function of the way it was recorded, and since it doesn’t jump around inside the surround image, it isn’t an unpleasant effect."

For this quadhead, that is not a weakness. It's actually really cool.

"ride symbol being in the rear" Really? You can see it? Or is it cymbalic?

 

[kvadro]

I just played Madonna's "Immaculate Collection" CD thru the SM... it sounded like discrete quad, when played through the SM's Involve 4.1 mode.

☀ This recording has been processed with QSound, an unrivaled advancement in stereophonic sound technology. QSound presents the listener with a new three dimensional aspect of recorded sound when played back through any conventional stereo system.

 

[Scott65]

The Pretenders (first album) 40th anniversary edition (3 x CD)

 

[Scott65]

Queen - Sheer Heart Attack - 2011 remaster

 

[jaybird100]

"ride symbol being in the rear" Really? You can see it? Or is it cymbalic?

What has to be understood is, that the effect you get from any matrix decoder while playing stereo material, is purely a random effect that wasn't planned for. Still, when stereo material is passed through a decoder, such as the SM, the added separation of sounds can reveal details in the music that are covered up when played in regular stereo.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

What has to be understood is, that the effect you get from any matrix decoder while playing stereo material, is purely a random effect that wasn't planned for.

Yes and and having a bit of control over the S2S enhancement, like on the
S & IC or Sansui units, makes it a bit less random.

Still, when stereo material is passed through a decoder, such as the SM, the added separation of sounds can reveal details in the music that are covered up when played in regular stereo.

Absolutely true. I've heard this many times over the years including the SM. But the most memorable might be an upmix project of a video live performance by Chisato Moritaka. I had demuxed the audio & video & working on the audio upmix without the benefit of the visual cues. On one song I heard a tok-a-ta tok-a-ta tok-a-ta sound out of left rear. I had watched this many times with PL II & never heard that sound. It seemed in beat with the music but still I wondered if I did something wrong & created a weird artifact. But I moved on to the next song.

When I put the video back with the audio, there it was: congas on stage that had otherwise been buried in the mix. On the wide shots from the rear of the stage the congas were positioned to the left & behind the singer so it seemed in perfect alignment with the visuals.

I guess this is why @par4ken likes to refer stereo to surround playback as "un-wrapping."

 

[Overture]

If you haven't heard the 50th anniversary remaster of The White Album - it's great, maintains the detail and spirit of the original mix but with updated production hardware it absolutely shines. Particularly "Revolution 9" - they've widened the stereo a bit so that it wraps around in surround quite wonderfully, but is also sharper and clearer, including the panning and channel swapping - it's like hearing it again for the first time.

 

[MidiMagic]

What has to be understood is, that the effect you get from any matrix decoder while playing stereo material, is purely a random effect that wasn't planned for. Still, when stereo material is passed through a decoder, such as the SM, the added separation of sounds can reveal details in the music that are covered up when played in regular stereo.

What my comment was about was the word you used.

I find it very hard to play a symbol (e.g. an ampersand ("&"). I type it and nothing happens.

Meanwhile, cymbals are quieter if kept far apart and far from drumsticks.

 

[DuncanS]

What my comment was about was the word you used.

I find it very hard to play a symbol (e.g. an ampersand ("&"). I type it and nothing happens.

Meanwhile, cymbals are quieter if kept far apart and far from drumsticks.

If I remember correctly Peter Gabriel won't have cymbals played on his albums!

 

[kap'n krunch]

If I remember correctly Peter Gabriel won't have cymbals played on his albums!

same as 80s King Crimson..Bruford always joked that Belew was the only one allowed to play HiHats during Sartori in Tangier!

 

[esimms86]

same as 80s King Crimson..Bruford always joked that Belew was the only one allowed to play HiHats during Sartori in Tangier!

Poor Bruford. First he was tossed from Yes because they didn't like his Chinese drumming. Then this.Well, at least he was able to keep the gig!

 

[Overture]

 

[LB-V]

This is a lot of fun and sounds quite nice through the SMv3 AND the all new Amp Master!