Suggestions for Dutton Vocalion Multichannel SACD Releases

[GOS]

the Springsteen camp was not anti-surround i guess, since we did get a couple of 5.1 music releases; Live In New York City SACD and the Devils & Dust DualDisc and CD/DVD-V combo, sadly the surround mixes as we know aren't upto much on either.. and then you had the Seeger Sessions DualDisc, with Bob Clearmountain at the helm = Stereo only (D'OH!) but there's always a glimmer, i never say never!

You just said it....!!!! TWICE!! LMAO

 

[4-earredwonder]

Columbia was doing this at a breakneck pace, and in most cases I think the artists weren't even aware of the quad mixes being done.

I think a lot of their mixes were dropped because they wouldn't encode to SQ properly- the fact that there are multiple mixes of Columbia quads (both released and unreleased titles) like BS&T II, Sly's Greatest Hits, Edgar Winter's White Trash, and Laura Nyro's Eli seems to support that theory.

The Boston was probably dropped because it was way late in the game (1977)- only a few releases from Columbia made it out that year before they completely pulled the plug. Stuff like RTF's Musicmagic and the Isley Brothers' Go For Your Guns.

Which is all the more perplexing that Columbia didn't embrace Quad dolbyized Open Reel when just about all the majors did. Ironically, Columbia duplicated their own Stereo Open Reels [rather than farming them out to Ampex or Magtec] and might've aided in extending Quad's future especially since their SQ LP format/decoders were brutalized in the audiophile press of the time.

 

[sjcorne]

Which is all the more perplexing that Columbia didn't embrace Quad dolbyized Open Reel when just about all the majors did. Ironically, Columbia duplicated their own Stereo Open Reels [rather than farming them out to Ampex or Magtec] and might've helped to extend Quad's future especially since their SQ format was brutalized in the audiophile press of the time.

I don't disagree, but I would guess their thinking was that vinyl was the most affordable and popular delivery medium of the time, and to actually get quad mainstream it would have to be vinyl-based.

 

[fredblue]

Columbia was doing this at a breakneck pace, and in most cases I think the artists weren't even aware of the quad mixes being done.

I think a lot of their mixes were dropped because they wouldn't encode to SQ properly- the fact that there are multiple mixes of Columbia quads (both released and unreleased titles) like BS&T II, Sly's Greatest Hits, Edgar Winter's White Trash, and Laura Nyro's Eli seems to support that theory.

The Boston was probably dropped because it was way late in the game (1977)- only a few releases from Columbia made it out that year before they completely pulled the plug. Stuff like RTF's Musicmagic and the Isley Brothers' Go For Your Guns.

head-scratching as some CBS Quad releases seem now (it seems daft that a monster like Boston would be deprioritised for Musicmagic) and a great Quad mix of an album riding high like Boston could reignite Quad's fortunes, its worth putting it out there that their Quads sometimes seemed to be selected off the back of a previous hit album (Wild Cherry 1976 = Stereo Hit; Electrified Funk 1977 = Quad.. Romantic Warrior => Musicmagic; Harvest For The World => Go For Your Guns..).. its not Quads' fault some of those other records flopped! ahh.. hindsight, in retrospect, ain't what it used ta be!

 

[sjcorne]

its worth putting it out there that their Quads sometimes seemed to be selected off the back of a previous hit album (Wild Cherry 1976 = Stereo Hit; Electrified Funk 1977 = Quad.. Romantic Warrior => Musicmagic; Harvest For The World => Go For Your Guns..)..

Very true! That'd make for a great thread- you've also got stuff like Redbone's Beaded Dreams making it to quad instead of Wovoka, B.T. Express' Energy To Burn instead of Non-Stop, and the O'Jays' Ship Ahoy instead of Back Stabbers.

 

[4-earredwonder]

I don't disagree, but I would guess their thinking was that vinyl was the most affordable and popular delivery medium of the time, and to actually get quad mainstream it would have to be vinyl-based.

Or they had so much money wrapped up in their SQ system they 'stubbornly' persisted in advocating their [failed] format [especiallly in view of arch rival RCA's somewhat superior discrete CD~4 system] they just lost perspective.

IMO, the ONLY way to REALLY hear 'quality' QUAD at the time was via Open Reel as I just gave up on the shitty LP pressings and problematic decoders of the time.

 

[fredblue]

Which is all the more perplexing that Columbia didn't embrace Quad dolbyized Open Reel when just about all the majors did. Ironically, Columbia duplicated their own Stereo Open Reels [rather than farming them out to Ampex or Magtec] and might've aided in extending Quad's future especially since their SQ LP format/decoders were brutalized in the audiophile press of the time.

earlier on it would've been cool for CBS to do Quad reels but not a game-changer imho (other than showing up SQ technology of the time even further).. but by 75/6 i think those few still-involved parties had probably felt like they'd flogged the Quad horse to death, i'm always amazed there were any CBS Quads in 1977 at all (i love them all, don't get me wrong but the writing must've been on the wall in indelible ink by that point!?)

 

[fredblue]

Very true! That'd make for a great thread- you've also got stuff like Redbone's Beaded Dreams instead of Wovoka, B.T. Express' Energy To Burn instead of Non-Stop, and the O'Jays' Ship Ahoy instead of Back Stabbers.

ahh.. i'm so happy those Beaded Dreams and Energy To Burn flops got Quadraphonicised... drool, drool.. Don and Larry at their finest!

 

[sjcorne]

ahh.. i'm so happy those Beaded Dreams and Energy To Burn flops got Quadraphonicised... drool, drool.. Don and Larry at their finest!

Thread started - https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...after-the-one-with-the-hit.25752/#post-400920

 

[fredblue]

Thread started - https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...after-the-one-with-the-hit.25752/#post-400920

nice one! i'll chip in tomorrow, time to hit the hay

 

[4-earredwonder]

earlier on it would've been cool for CBS to do Quad reels but not a game-changer imho (other than showing up SQ technology of the time even further).. but by 75/6 i think those few still-involved parties had probably felt like they'd flogged the Quad horse to death, i'm always amazed there were any CBS Quads in 1977 at all (i love them all, don't get me wrong but the writing must've been on the wall in indelible ink by that point!?)

This is a bit way off topic but after Quad died, all types of decoders [Tate, etc] were released to the public in an attempt to ameliorate the major's failed decoders and it seems the RBCD shares similar attempts to make it sound better with gimmicks like 24k Gold, HDCD, JVC's K2 HD Mastering, Blu Spec, SHM CD, etc. but the truth is it's still 16/44.1 and some of these discs in all fairness do sound better probably due to superior mastering but hey, it's 2018 and 24/96 and DSD are the way to fly.

Perhaps one day these major record conglomerates will really get their shit together and stop jacking us around ..... as they did then ... and NOW! Are $18~30+ 'hi res' downloads really the answer...or solution?

Isn't it time to retire the 'failed' RBCD, as well"? Or find a dualdisc solution with 96/24 that works in ALL players!

 

[bangsezmax]

the Springsteen camp was not anti-surround i guess, since we did get a couple of 5.1 music releases; Live In New York City SACD and the Devils & Dust DualDisc and CD/DVD-V combo, sadly the surround mixes as we know aren't upto much on either.. and then you had the Seeger Sessions DualDisc, with Bob Clearmountain at the helm = Stereo only (D'OH!) but there's always a glimmer, i never say never!

The BTR 30th package has the Hammersmith Odeon '75 video in 5.1, although it's standard concert 5.1 with nothing interesting in the rears. I recall Bruce was asked if he wanted to do a 5.1 of the studio LP for the box and his response was "Naah." I'm sure there's a link to that piece here in QQ somewhere.

 

[Q-Eight]

earlier on it would've been cool for CBS to do Quad reels but not a game-changer imho (other than showing up SQ technology of the time even further).. but by 75/6 i think those few still-involved parties had probably felt like they'd flogged the Quad horse to death, i'm always amazed there were any CBS Quads in 1977 at all (i love them all, don't get me wrong but the writing must've been on the wall in indelible ink by that point!?)

If you look at the release dates of some of these albums, I would put money on the fact that the stereo mixes and Quad mixes were done congruently. I would imagine it took several weeks to produce the LP's and tapes and at least another to distribute to stores. Musicmagic's Return to Forever was released in January so it was definitely mixed sometime in the last quarter of 1976. Mac Davis' Thunder in the Afternoon was released in February 1977, which sort of suggests the mixes were done during the ass-end of 1976. Wild Cherry's Electrified Funk came out in April so that may have been mixed about the same time or maybe as late as January.

All of these mentioned were deleted from catalogs by 1979. So they really weren't on shelves for very long. But then again, Columbia Records were tied to Sony, and we all know how Sony will beat a dead horse to a pulp with it's own proprietary formats. Yeah, they were doing it back then, too.

But RCA hung in even longer!! Some of their mail order / Ford Dealership order Q8's came as late as 1981!

 

[4-earredwonder]

The BTR 30th package has the Hammersmith Odeon '75 video in 5.1, although it's standard concert 5.1 with nothing interesting in the rears. I recall Bruce was asked if he wanted to do a 5.1 of the studio LP for the box and his response was "Naah." I'm sure there's a link to that piece here in QQ somewhere.

In light of recent Surround Developments...aka the Beatles, Guns n' Roses, Jimi Hendrix, Rush, the Tulls, the Dutton Vocalion QUAD Renaissance, et alia, perhaps Bruce may have an awakening as to the merits of remixing his core albums into surround.

Never say Naah Bruce. We all know you won't be in it for the money [his net worth is 1/2 billion] ...... but your albums will surely sound BETTER in Surround!

Your rabid QQ fans have a 'Hungry Heart' for SURROUND!

 

[MrSmithers]

In light of recent Surround Developments...aka the Beatles, Guns n' Roses, Jimi Hendrix, Rush, the Tulls, the Dutton Vocalion QUAD Renaissance, et alia, perhaps Bruce may have an awakening as to the merits of remixing his core albums into surround.

Never say Naah Bruce. We all know you won't be in it for the money [his net worth is 1/2 billion] ...... but your albums will surely sound BETTER in Surround!

Your rabid QQ fans have a 'Hungry Heart' for SURROUND!

Cos tramps like us - baby we were born to run...Bum bom bum bum... Man this is a great album! Probably not on the DV radar but... Maybe with a bit of QQ pressure - 1,2,3,4 (speakers)

 

[esimms86]

Cos tramps like us - baby we were born to run...Bum bom bum bum... Man this is a great album! Probably not on the DV radar but... Maybe with a bit of QQ pressure - 1,2,3,4 (speakers)

Side question. Were any of these artists involved in the Quad mixes? Or was it akin to the Fab Four who only hung around for the Mono mixes?

 

[sjcorne]

Side question. Were any of these artists involved in the Quad mixes? Or was it akin to the Fab Four who only hung around for the Mono mixes?

It’s been said that Rick Derringer and the Winter Brothers were involved in their quad mixes- in fact there is a pic of Rick Derringer with Larry Keyes in the studio out there somewhere.

The Carpenters were also involved in their quad releases- said to be big fans of the format.

 

[esimms86]

S

It’s been said that Rick Derringer and the Winter Brothers were involved in their quad mixes- in fact there is a pick of Rick Derringer with Larry Keyes in the studio out there somewhere.

The Carpenters were also involved in their quad releases- said to be big fans of the format.

So can one assume that they were the rare exceptions?

 

[4-earredwonder]

Cos tramps like us - baby we were born to run...Bum bom bum bum... Man this is a great album! Probably not on the DV radar but... Maybe with a bit of QQ pressure - 1,2,3,4 (speakers)

Master Smithers, for your aerobic exercises, you can now replace your well worn Jane Fonda VHS workout tape with a homemade Dolby Atmos upmix of Springsteen's Born To Run...followed by a refreshing swill of festive Prickly Pear Ale! AAhhhhh!

 

[sjcorne]

So can one assume that they were the rare exceptions?

I'd say so. Though in the case of Columbia, when the quad mix was done by the artist's preferred engineer (that may have worked on the original stereo release) instead of one of the in-house CBS quad engineers (like Larry Keyes or Don Young), it suggests to me that the artist may have pushed for their involvement.

Examples of this include:
Chicago's quads- almost all done by Wayne Tarnowski
Aerosmith's quads- all done by Jay Messina
Barbra Streisand's quads- several done by Sy Mitchell

This is all just speculation on my part though.