Suggestions for Dutton Vocalion Multichannel SACD Releases

[Colin London]

Where was this available? The retail mix I have was done by Tom Dowd and it sounds amazing.

Yes Tom Dowd, another great Engineer
of the 1970's.
My Error, thank you for correcting me

 

[SHB]

I think releasing the quad version of Tyranny and Mutation by BOC and the quad version of Down to Earth by Nektar would be big sellers for DV. I think they would make a few bones offering those.

 

[winopener]

To my knowledge, the Deodato/Airto title is the only one that ever used a decode and it said so previous to having to purchase it on their webpage. Good on them for letting everyone know before hand. I really didn't think it was that bad. Not as good as a quad reel or the actual master but I rather enjoy it.

IIRC Herbie Hancock too. Don't have the sacd on my hand now, it is boxed away.

 

[leahypc]

Yeah, that's right - Sextant.

 

[steelydave]

Sextant is not the same as the Airto/Deodato disc - the multichannel layer is from a discrete tape, and the SACD stereo layer has the album twice, the first is from the original stereo mix, and the second is from the SQ-encoded 2 channel master.

 

[Bob Romano]

Ahhh you are correct. So that means that a Q8 transfer may have been used. In any case it sounds excellent and I am more than happy to purchase discs with this kind of quality.

 

[ubertrout]

Ahhh you are correct. So that means that a Q8 transfer may have been used. In any case it sounds excellent and I am more than happy to purchase discs with this kind of quality.

DV has been coy about what exactly they're using as sources, but these are officially licensed, and I'm guessing if they're not from the quad masters they're from safety copies and the like.

 

[Bob Romano]

Whatever they use, as long as the get that quality, I'm all in.

 

[esimms86]

Hey @steelydave, I want some Watford Wizardry under my tree this Christmas! It would make social isolating sooooo much easier! Tell Mikey D that I sent you!

 

[Q-Eight]

DV has been coy about what exactly they're using as sources, but these are officially licensed, and I'm guessing if they're not from the quad masters they're from safety copies and the like.

I thought for that particular title it was explained that the original Quadraphonic mixdown Master could not be located but a safety copy WAS. I mean really, that's still lightyears ahead of anything we can find commercially. Generally speaking, if a dub is done properly from 15 i.p.s. to 15 i.p.s; there is a virtually indistinguishable amount of generational loss.
YES, there will be some, but no, your human ears will not be able to detect it. D-V was just covering their butt because for 99% of their releases, they CAN find the original Quad master. If Sextant was from a Q8 dub.... holy moly.... they need to do MORE. From my listening experience; there's no adjacent channel leakage, it's not hissy at all, the recording is bright with no artifacting in the high frequencies; and dare I say it sounds better than some of the Guess Who Quads which suffer from some pretty serious print-through.

 

[ubertrout]

I thought for that particular title it was explained that the original Quadraphonic mixdown Master could not be located but a safety copy WAS. I mean really, that's still lightyears ahead of anything we can find commercially. Generally speaking, if a dub is done properly from 15 i.p.s. to 15 i.p.s; there is a virtually indistinguishable amount of generational loss.
YES, there will be some, but no, your human ears will not be able to detect it. D-V was just covering their butt because for 99% of their releases, they CAN find the original Quad master. If Sextant was from a Q8 dub.... holy moly.... they need to do MORE. From my listening experience; there's no adjacent channel leakage, it's not hissy at all, the recording is bright with no artifacting in the high frequencies; and dare I say it sounds better than some of the Guess Who Quads which suffer from some pretty serious print-through.

To be clear, I wasn't complaining - it's so much better. And those safety masters are probably in better shape anyway.

I know for a few classical projects Michael Dutton has gotten access to the actual multitracks and made his own quad mix, but that's almost certainly going to be limited to classical where there's no copyright/approval concerns. For those few examples it's shocking how much better they sound - compare the vintage quad mix on Alexander Nevsky to the new quad mix for Lt. Kije: https://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=CDLX7362

My general suspicion is that the generation-level of the master tapes is in inverse proportion to its commercial interest. For the classical stuff I wouldn't be surprised if they're the masters, for pop there's probably much more variation, and tape condition may also be more of an issue for pop.

 

[Mark Williams Songwriter]

Cristopher Cross debut album was done in 5.1 but never released, and The best of Bread 2.

 

[Quadmon]

I'm with ya! Would LOVE to see any of these (preferably ALL of these) make it to the big time.

White Trash + They Only Come Out at Night
Shock Treatment + Jasmine Nightdreams
E.W.G. w/ Ricky D.
Would be interesting to see if there's a discrete tape of "Roadwork". There's potentially three 2-fer's worth of material there.

Over with Brother Johnny, there's at least two 2-fer's to work with:

Unreleased Self Titled + Saints & Sinners
Still alive & Well + John Dawson Winter III

How about a Winter Brothers box set? All quads in one place. If they could make discs from my 8-tracks I'd loan them some. Lol

 

[esimms86]

How about a Winter Brothers box set? All quads in one place. If they could make discs from my 8-tracks I'd loan them some. Lol

A box set would violate GOS’s Law

 

[Quadmon]

Also I assume that many of the masters of the releases we would like were lost in the UMG fire.

 

[steelydave]

Hey @steelydave, I want some Watford Wizardry under my tree this Christmas! It would make social isolating sooooo much easier! Tell Mikey D that I sent you!

Believe me, everyone involved with D-V are working really hard to get new releases out sooner rather than later. I'm sure it sounds like a cliche by now, but, even for a company like D-V that does as much of their work in-house as they can, due to the nature of their business model they still rely on the cooperation of a number of outside entities from master licensing to disc replication, and COVID has created logistical issues all over the place. Obviously I can't put a timeline on when things will iron themselves out entirely, but the upside is that because we've got all our ducks in a row during the wait this year, when things do come they'll come in bunches rather than dribs and drabs.

As far as the master tape thing goes, I've suggested to Mike before that being more transparent about tape provenance could work in his favour (believe me, he's not hiding anything, in fact it's much the opposite) but he feels that his sources, methods and techniques give him a competitive advantage over other competitors doing the same thing and he doesn't feel beholden to share them. He feels that the sound of his releases speak for themselves (and presumably his sales numbers too) and really, who are we to argue with his approach - he's the one with the reissue label that's been around for 22 years (!)

 

[4-earredwonder]

Believe me, everyone involved with D-V are working really hard to get new releases out sooner rather than later. I'm sure it sounds like a cliche by now, but, even for a company like D-V that does as much of their work in-house as they can, due to the nature of their business model they still rely on the cooperation of a number of outside entities from master licensing to disc replication, and COVID has created logistical issues all over the place. Obviously I can't put a timeline on when things will iron themselves out entirely, but the upside is that because we've got all our ducks in a row during the wait this year, when things do come they'll come in bunches rather than dribs and drabs.

As far as the master tape thing goes, I've suggested to Mike before that being more transparent about tape provenance could work in his favour (believe me, he's not hiding anything, in fact it's much the opposite) but he feels that his sources, methods and techniques give him a competitive advantage over other competitors doing the same thing and he doesn't feel beholden to share them. He feels that the sound of his releases speak for themselves (and presumably his sales numbers too) and really, who are we to argue with his approach - he's the one with the reissue label that's been around for 22 years (!)

GREAT NEWS INDEED, SD! BTW, I wish all reissues QUAD and STEREO [SACD] SOUNDED AS MARVELOUS AS ALL THOSE D~V SACDs I HAVE IN MY COLLECTION. Even their RBCDs sound FANTASTIC which is more than I can say for the Major Conglomerates. A CLASS ACT .... ALL THE WAY!

NO NITPICKIN' HERE!

FROM THE WATFORD WIZARD: NO QUAD SACD SHALL BE RELEASED ...BEFORE IT'S TIME!

And From the WATFORD ELVES: We're Working as FAST AS WE CAN

 

[hirez]

The sound does speak for itself and as long as it is a title I have any interest in I will buy it.

 

[hirez]

Believe me, everyone involved with D-V are working really hard to get new releases out sooner rather than later. I'm sure it sounds like a cliche by now, but, even for a company like D-V that does as much of their work in-house as they can, due to the nature of their business model they still rely on the cooperation of a number of outside entities from master licensing to disc replication, and COVID has created logistical issues all over the place. Obviously I can't put a timeline on when things will iron themselves out entirely, but the upside is that because we've got all our ducks in a row during the wait this year, when things do come they'll come in bunches rather than dribs and drabs.

As far as the master tape thing goes, I've suggested to Mike before that being more transparent about tape provenance could work in his favour (believe me, he's not hiding anything, in fact it's much the opposite) but he feels that his sources, methods and techniques give him a competitive advantage over other competitors doing the same thing and he doesn't feel beholden to share them. He feels that the sound of his releases speak for themselves (and presumably his sales numbers too) and really, who are we to argue with his approach - he's the one with the reissue label that's been around for 22 years (!)

Thank You for a great comment!

 

[J. PUPSTER]

What is known about the 'Black Jazz Records' label for availability like this title?

https://www.discogs.com/Doug-Carn-Featuring-The-Voice-Of-Jean-Carn-Revelation/release/10870649