ABC - The Lexicon Of Love (Steven Wilson 5.1 & Dolby Atmos remixes coming in August 2023; SDE Blu-Ray #12)

[Jeffrey Michael]

https://darko.audio/2023/06/the-madness-of-dolby-atmos-for-music/
Anyone see this article that starts out talking about the forthcoming The Lexicon Of Love Dolby Atmos mix then goes into thoughts of why people don’t want to put more than two speakers in their living space, etc? Sounds to me like he doesn’t like the idea, at all.

 

[sjcorne]

Anyone see this article that starts out talking about the forthcoming The Lexicon Of Love Dolby Atmos mix then goes into thoughts of why people don’t want to put more than two speakers in their living space, etc? Sounds to me like he doesn’t like the idea, at all.

The best part is the author’s insinuation that SW’s remix will have less dynamic range than the original mix

 

[privateuniverse]

The best part is the author’s insinuation that SW’s remix will have less dynamic range than the original mix

Yeah, I had to laugh when I read that. Maybe he should have listened to some of SW's other mixes before assuming that would be the case.

 

[key_wiz]

https://darko.audio/2023/06/the-madness-of-dolby-atmos-for-music/
Anyone see this article that starts out talking about the forthcoming The Lexicon Of Love Dolby Atmos mix then goes into thoughts of why people don’t want to put more than two speakers in their living space, etc? Sounds to me like he doesn’t like the idea, at all.

Well, we all know that what he's saying is probably basically true. There's a very good chance Dolby Atmos for audio will be dead five years from now.

Then again, I might be dead five years from now as well. And if not? I'll still have my surround system and all my discs to enjoy. And as far as all the streaming content that would likely disappear? Same as it is with All The (Other) Girls I've Loved Before -- they will be fond memories of good days gone by.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

https://darko.audio/2023/06/the-madness-of-dolby-atmos-for-music/
Anyone see this article that starts out talking about the forthcoming The Lexicon Of Love Dolby Atmos mix then goes into thoughts of why people don’t want to put more than two speakers in their living space, etc? Sounds to me like he doesn’t like the idea, at all.

What’s madness in IMO is that he figures someone going to all that trouble; but then stops short at .2 instead of .4- Atmosus Interruptus

 

[fredblue]

The best part is the author’s insinuation that SW’s remix will have less dynamic range than the original mix

i follow him on YouTube but he is something of a five minute wonder with zero qualification for his assertions (who by his own admission's really only seriously been into audio the last few years). he has expressed in past videos he has absolutely no desire to even try Multichannel for Music so i'm not sure why i still follow him tbh.. but then there's a fair few vlogging tosspots who fit the bill in that respect so i'll stick with him for now!

 

[fredblue]

Yeah, I had to laugh when I read that. Maybe he should have listened to some of SW's other mixes before assuming that would be the case.

i've been following him since covid but it might be time to unfollow someone who clearly goes so deeply against the grain of something i absolutely love

 

[fredblue]

What’s madness in IMO is that he figures someone going to all that trouble; but then stops short at .2 instead of .4- Atmosus Interruptus

that's because he's Atmossus Clueless

 

[fredblue]

Well, we all know that what he's saying is probably basically true. There's a very good chance Dolby Atmos for audio will be dead five years from now.

Then again, I might be dead five years from now as well. And if not? I'll still have my surround system and all my discs to enjoy. And as far as all the streaming content that would likely disappear? Same as it is with All The (Other) Girls I've Loved Before -- they will be fond memories of good days gone by.

that's a very pragmatic way of looking at it and i agree with you! "qué será, será!" and all that jazz!

i would also say that if that were to happen Atmos Music would still have made a bigger impact while it was around than most previous efforts at bringing Surround Music to the masses.

my main issue would as you have expressed be all the mixes disappearing if/when the streaming services pull out.. but until then let's enjoy it while it lasts!!

 

[key_wiz]

my main issue would as you have expressed be all the mixes disappearing if/when the streaming services pull out.. but until then let's enjoy it while it lasts!!

I'm hoping that before then that someone figures out a way to capture those streams so that even if they are never made available for sale, those of us that really want them can have a way to access and preserve them in our private collections.*

(*BTW, I'm not advocating piracy and I never have. But I'm also very bothered by the fact that mixes that DO exist are out-of-print or otherwise unavailable to those of us who want them. I would gladly pay a fair price to the copyright holders of any such items I want. But if they purposely make them unavailable -- or if the only way to get one is to pay exorbitant money for used copies [which doesn't benefit the copyright holders anyway] then I really have no issue with obtaining the mixes by other means.)

 

[mandrix]

"But your honor!" "it's not piracy, they sent it right into my living room through that magic box right there I brought to court!"

 

[sjcorne]

Well, we all know that what he's saying is probably basically true. There's a very good chance Dolby Atmos for audio will be dead five years from now.

I'm not so sure I agree with that - if they're able to improve the binaural headphone rendering, it may well live on for some time.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

I'm not so sure I agree with that - if they're able to improve the binaural headphone rendering, it may well live on for some time.

I tend to agree, I may be very critical at times of the sound quality and mixing choices; but I'm in the camp that it's here to stay for a long while.

I believe also as the VR headgear improves, Atmos (or some form of it) will go along with it.

 

[steelydave]

I've been saying this for a while, but getting the Smyth Realiser technology into smartphones and other portable devices like DAPs and laptops would be an absolute game-changer for the adoption for immersive audio akin to the walkman's effect on cassette and CD sales.

 

[mandrix]

To me, while not a quantum leap perhaps, Atmos has made my listening experience x times better than 5.1.
How long it lasts is anyone's guess. Depends on how the buying public kicks in the almighty $$. Few and far between we are, I think, as far as Atmos music consumers.
If the trend continues with movies and finds enough willing to pony up, well, we'll see.
Some people buy high-ish end gear because they can, many take convincing that immersive audio is a worthwhile expenditure of the weekly wage. Most just don't give a thought to it. TV speakers.

 

[key_wiz]

I'm not so sure I agree with that - if they're able to improve the binaural headphone rendering, it may well live on for some time.

That's my hope as well. And that those of us with actual surround systems will be the beneficiary of this even if we aren't the target customer. As long as the mixes work well in both kinds of systems.

Hopefully mixing in Atmos becomes the standard the way stereo became such back in the 60s. But the reason THAT worked is because it was so easy to make virtually every system sold 'stereo' to some degree or another and they were able to convince the public that they wanted it even if they didn't even really know what it was or actually cared about it. (I remember my parents bringing home one of those big 'console' stereo systems back in the 60s. They were very proud to have what they thought was a state-of-the-art hifi system. At least as much as they could afford anyway. They knew 'stereo' was an improvement. But had it actually been a mono system? I seriously doubt they'd have been able to tell the difference. The speakers were only about 3 feet apart. How could you hear the separation unless you were sitting right in front of it?)

As much as we may all hate binaural headphones and Atmos soundbars and single bluetooth speakers that purport to turn your room into a virtual Atmos studio, it will actually be those things catching on with the general public that will determine the long term success of Atmos mixes. When nearly every music-playing device can emulate some sort of Atmos playability for no more cost and the customers at least believe they are hearing some sort of improved sound experience from it? Then we will know it's here to stay. And effort MUST be made to put the systems into automobiles. Which is where most people do anything that comes close to dedicated listening.

But yeah--as long as it is dependent upon any sort of extra cost and effort? Then the author is correct. The vast majority of people will ALWAYS choose affordability and convenience.

 

[mandrix]

That's my hope as well. And that those of us with actual surround systems will be the beneficiary of this even if we aren't the target customer. As long as the mixes work well in both kinds of systems.

Hopefully mixing in Atmos becomes the standard the way stereo became such back in the 60s. But the reason THAT worked is because it was so easy to make virtually every system sold 'stereo' to some degree or another and they were able to convince the public that they wanted it even if they didn't even really know what it was or actually cared about it. (I remember my parents bringing home one of those big 'console' stereo systems back in the 60s. They were very proud to have what they thought was a state-of-the-art hifi system. At least as much as they could afford anyway. They knew 'stereo' was an improvement. But had it actually been a mono system? I seriously doubt they'd have been able to tell the difference. The speakers were only about 3 feet apart. How could you hear the separation unless you were sitting right in front of it?)

As much as we may all hate binaural headphones and Atmos soundbars and single bluetooth speakers that purport to turn your room into a virtual Atmos studio, it will actually be those things catching on with the general public that will determine the long term success of Atmos mixes. When nearly every music-playing device can emulate some sort of Atmos playability for no more cost and the customers at least believe they are hearing some sort of improved sound experience from it? Then we will know it's here to stay. And effort MUST be made to put the systems into automobiles. Which is where most people do anything that comes close to dedicated listening.

But yeah--as long as it is dependent upon any sort of extra cost and effort? Then the author is correct. The vast majority of people will ALWAYS choose affordability and convenience.

Yes but one thing those big ass console systems often had was: bass. Better than an AM car radio and better than a transistor radio. For probably the first time we (some) heard some actual bass instead of tinny sounding music.

 

[key_wiz]

Yes but one thing those big ass console systems often had was: bass. Better than an AM car radio and better than a transistor radio. For probably the first time we heard some actual bass instead of tinny sounding music.

For a kid like me? Certainly. Big improvement over my Close-and-Play.

But didn't the earlier mono 'hifi' systems from the 50s have plenty of bass as well?

I'm not sure what my parents listened to prior to that console. Probably just the radio. But I imagine they went into the store looking to buy a nice system for the living room -- something that was furniture as much as a record player, since that was what was in vogue at the time -- and probably were hyped up on the marketing of 'stereo' at the time as well and that's what they were sold. Were they even still making mono hifi systems by the mid 60s?

Anyway, my point being that they were sold this system because A) that's what was available B) they believed they were getting something new and special but in reality they probably weren't discerning enough listeners to tell it apart from mono.

And unless and until Atmos systems are manufactured, sold and received by the public in the same way, I question whether it will be around to stay.

One thing that would be helpful? Even though I recognize they don't have the same bitrate and fidelity, if these streaming services were to drop the stereo options and provide only the Atmos options and let those with stereo just play folddown versions? (Just like the old "Stereo LP Playable On Any System!" labels put on LPs in the 60s) That would spur it to become the 'standard' for sure.

 

[dobyblue]

The biggest thing I noticed with that article is the complete lack of discussion on how existing 5.1 systems can enjoy listening to surround mixes because Dolby Atmos is just metadata on TrueHD, which means you don’t need new equipment at all if you’ve had 5.1 since the early 2000s from the SACD/DVD-A days nor if you’ve had 5.1 for Blu-ray movies since the late 2000s when TrueHD-capable AVRs were launched. Sure you might need the extras if you want to go the whole hog, but Atmos doesn’t equal 7.2.4 or bust.

 

[mandrix]

For a kid like me? Certainly. Big improvement over my Close-and-Play.

But didn't the earlier mono 'hifi' systems from the 50s have plenty of bass as well?

I'm not sure what my parents listened to prior to that console. Probably just the radio. But I imagine they went into the store looking to buy a nice system for the living room -- something that was furniture as much as a record player, since that was what was in vogue at the time -- and probably were hyped up on the marketing of 'stereo' at the time as well and that's what they were sold. Were they even still making mono hifi systems by the mid 60s?

Anyway, my point being that they were sold this system because A) that's what was available B) they believed they were getting something new and special but in reality they probably weren't discerning enough listeners to tell it apart from mono.

And unless and until Atmos systems are manufactured, sold and received by the public in the same way, I question whether it will be around to stay.

One thing that would be helpful? Even though I recognize they don't have the same bitrate and fidelity, if these streaming services were to drop the stereo options and provide only the Atmos options and let those with stereo just play folddown versions? (Just like the old "Stereo LP Playable On Any System!" labels put on LPs in the 60s) That would spur it to become the 'standard' for sure.

I doubt your parents were "hyped" up over stereo. IDK. Probably spot on about the console as furniture part, though. But only one family I knew had one of those consoles in the mid 60's. My best friend's parents bought one when I was a teen, and we loved it. Had a TT of course. It even had a jack to plug in for my cheap electric guitar. Shoot, we would bring our dates over and have dance parties and such. A lot of good memories in that house, my "home away from home".
I had a very large 45 record collection due to my Mother having a little cafeteria with a jukebox. The guy would change records every week and give them to me and I would haul them over to my Bud's house for parties.
Sadly my friend passed during Covid, and his Mom "my second Mom" a year later.