Did Sony and Philips make the right call with the cd format being 44.1/16?

[KG10]

In a nutshell, Meridian's MLP is now akin to DOLBY TRUE HD which if your pre/pro does not embrace DOLBY ATMOS is now reconfigured to Dolby True HD 7.1

Is DTS HD Master Audio any different or the same?

Also side note how comes some sde releases include both a LPCM track and DTS HD Master Audio since they theoretically should be the same sound quality?

Is it because they want to include a lossy stream for systems with only spidif out and DTS HD Master Audio just so happens to have the classic 1.5Mbs dts at its core?

Edit: After thinking about it if that was the case then wouldn't it make more sense to just put a regular lossy DTS stream instead?

 

[Petr Kropotkin]

I have a burnt CD with a 5.1 mix of Floyd's "Meddle" on it, but I can't remember how/when I did it (though I'm guessing it was soon after "The Early Years" box set was released and the mix discovered). It will play fine on my Oppo-205, but not on just any CD player (I get white noise). Is this a violation of some law of the CD universe?

 

[Sonik Wiz]

I have a burnt CD with a 5.1 mix of Floyd's "Meddle" on it, but I can't remember how/when I did it (though I'm guessing it was soon after "The Early Years" box set was released and the mix discovered). It will play fine on my Oppo-205, but not on just any CD player (I get white noise). Is this a violation of some law of the CD universe?

Me thinks the 5.1 is DTS encoded.

 

[kap'n krunch]

Yes.
At that time it was good and still is…of course I, as we all are, am against the Loudness war…
I compare it to 35 mm slides…still good to look at…

 

[Petr Kropotkin]

Me thinks the 5.1 is DTS encoded.

Yes, I think you're right. I did some research after I posted it, and it seems DTS can do 5.1 on a CD, and my Oppo can decode DTS, which explains why other CD players I have can't. Cheers.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Yes, I think you're right. I did some research after I posted it, and it seems DTS can do 5.1 on a CD, and my Oppo can decode DTS, which explains why other CD players I have can't. Cheers.

God Bless the Oppo!

 

[mandrix]

Yes, I think you're right. I did some research after I posted it, and it seems DTS can do 5.1 on a CD, and my Oppo can decode DTS, which explains why other CD players I have can't. Cheers.

Indeed, Wiz didn't lead you astray. I burned many CD's with DTS.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Yes.
At that time it was good and still is…of course I, as we all are, am against the Loudness war…
I compare it to 35 mm slides…still good to look at…

Sir, Kodachrome vs Ektachrome. I choose the former.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

I have a burnt CD with a 5.1 mix of Floyd's "Meddle" on it, but I can't remember how/when I did it (though I'm guessing it was soon after "The Early Years" box set was released and the mix discovered). It will play fine on my Oppo-205, but not on just any CD player (I get white noise). Is this a violation of some law of the CD universe?

What's the make and model of your CD player? Which output are you using to connect to your AVR? Does your player have a volume control?

If you are using your players optical or electrical outputs and it has a volume control, try reducing the volume down to say 1 or 0.

For some reason the output voltage of the volume control on some players can often effect the DTS bitstream when passed via a players optical or electrical outputs.

 

[jwb474]

Yes, by today's standard the Red Book CD is outdated, but when folks like Telarc, DMP, Sheffield Labs, Phillips, MFSL and others did a great job of mastering I found the the CD could really deliver a great sonic experience. I still enjoy many CDs and DTS-CDs in my collection.
I was sold on the CD when way back in time I went to the original Hillcrest HiFi in Dallas and a salesman named Les Sims gave me a demo using Klipsch Cornwalls powered by Dynaco MK III amps. I believe the CD player was a Phillips. He played a CD titled Tunnel by Flim and the BBs. It was outstanding. At that time I was all in on the CD format although I still loved getting LPs.

 

[jimfisheye]

You realize that the "dts CD" is repurposing the container for a different data set, right? This wasn't any extension of the CD format. It was literally spoofing the format with a different data set. The device on the receiving end recognizes a telltale in the new dataset and decodes accordingly.

If the receiving device doesn't recognize the telltale of encoded dts surround audio from the incoming data, it assumes it's 16/44.1 pcm digital audio data and puts it to the DAC. Treating you and your speakers to dangerous levels of static/noise!

Repurposing stereo containers for surround audio has been a popular choice for quite a while now. It was the only choice for a while! This one was at least using digital data, even if it was a lossy encode to begin with. Crafty stuff! Good to leave in the past all the same.

 

[4-earredwonder]

You realize that the "dts CD" is repurposing the container for a different data set, right? This wasn't any extension of the CD format. It was literally spoofing the format with a different data set. The device on the receiving end recognizes a telltale in the new dataset and decodes accordingly.

If the receiving device doesn't recognize the telltale of encoded dts surround audio from the incoming data, it assumes it's 16/44.1 pcm digital audio data and puts it to the DAC. Treating you and your speakers to dangerous levels of static/noise!

Repurposing stereo containers for surround audio has been a popular choice for quite a while now. It was the only choice for a while! This one was at least using digital data, even if it was a lossy encode to begin with. Crafty stuff! Good to leave in the past all the same.

Jim, I'm totally aligned with you on the last point! DTS and even DD were wonderful tools to get surround off the ground and running but in 2024 and with the expense of remixing for surround.....is surely deserving of lossless codecs!

Am still scratching my head how Michael Dutton can still release a SACD QUAD two~fer for US$16 in this high inflationary day and age .... but he DOES!

 

[KG10]

Please ignore this message I replied to the wrong message

 

[KG10]

You realize that the "dts CD" is repurposing the container for a different data set, right? This wasn't any extension of the CD format. It was literally spoofing the format with a different data set. The device on the receiving end recognizes a telltale in the new dataset and decodes accordingly.

If the receiving device doesn't recognize the telltale of encoded dts surround audio from the incoming data, it assumes it's 16/44.1 pcm digital audio data and puts it to the DAC. Treating you and your speakers to dangerous levels of static/noise!

Repurposing stereo containers for surround audio has been a popular choice for quite a while now. It was the only choice for a while! This one was at least using digital data, even if it was a lossy encode to begin with. Crafty stuff! Good to leave in the past all the same.

I know this is a really stupid question but what would happen if you recorded a coaxial out to an analogue source ( eg compact cassette or vhs) then after plugged the output into coaxial in?

 

[Petr Kropotkin]

What's the make and model of your CD player?

Ah, two were old players well before I got the Oppo, a Panasonic and a Marantz 6003; new ones were just a little midi player (Denon RCD-M40), and an external drive plugged into my Mac. None of them (I now see) could decode the DTS off the CD.

 

[jimfisheye]

I know this is a really stupid question but what would happen if you recorded a coaxial out to an analogue source ( eg cassette or vhs) then after plugged the output into coaxial in?

I'd have to look up a few things to give a detailed dissertation of the tolerances involved and where noise, impedance mismatches, etc would lead to errors and failure.

Remember using consumer cassette players for the 1st home computers before the days of floppy disc?

All digital systems at the nuts and bolts level are analog storage medium for ones and zeros. As long as the clock cycles line up and 1's come back +0.6 or more and 0's come back as +0.4 or less, everything is golden. A little insidious perhaps with gradual media failure disguised!
Still good. Still good. Still good. Still good. Still good. Incomprehensible noise... ERROR!

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

Ah, two were old players well before I got the Oppo, a Panasonic and a Marantz 6003; new ones were just a little midi player (Denon RCD-M40), and an external drive plugged into my Mac. None of them (I now see) could decode the DTS off the CD.

And how are these players connected to your AVR? Optical, Coaxial or analogue?

 

[JulesRules]

The thing with HDCD tho is that I heard from sources that the sound is much worse compared to a normal cd when it isn't being decoded.

Some HDCDs are noticeably less dynamic when played back on a non-HDCD decoding device. Several Mark Knopfler albums spring to mind. However, Some Things Never Change by Supertramp is, IMHO, one of the best sounding CDs in my collection and that's a HDCD as well...

 

[Petr Kropotkin]

And how are these players connected to your AVR? Optical, Coaxial or analogue?

Well, they're not anymore, the old ones are "retired", and I don't have an AVR; just an Oppo 205 going into a pre-amp Parasound Halo P7, then an Emotiva 7-channel power amp (all analogue).

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

Well, they're not anymore, the old ones are "retired", and I don't have an AVR; just an Oppo 205 going into a pre-amp Parasound Halo P7, then an Emotiva 7-channel power amp (all analogue).

I see... A regular CD player does not offer 'onboard' DTS decoding, so is unable to pass 'decoded' DTS audio via its analogue outputs. By contrast, your OPPO UDP-20x player does offer onboard DTS decoding, so it is able to pass decoded DTS audio via its analogue outputs... It's a simple as that!