ELP Emerson Lake & Palmer Cataloge in 5.1 Surround

[fredblue]

I did mention about the "DVD Audio" thing.

Oh, I can't wait for their "DVD Audio Expanded Edition" of "Pictures At An Art Exhibition"...

I'll believe they've got true Advanced Resolution DVDAs in them when I see them!

 

[Bob Romano]

Oh, I can't wait for their "DVD Audio Expanded Edition" of "Pictures At An Art Exhibition"...

I'll believe they've got true Advanced Resolution DVDAs in them when I see them!

That's why I mentioned it. however you can get 96/24 stereo on a dvd. Smart ass comments are not helpful. Especially at this stage.

 

[fredblue]

and apart from that typo.. who at this point seriously thinks, with things as dodgy globally as they are, these 5.1 releases dwindling to a trickle, mostly in lossy DVDV format, that Sony/Razor & Tie would go to the trouble/expense of remixing BSS into 5.1? AGAIN!?

If they do and these turn out to be DVDVs, we'll have gone from..

-The Good = an amazing DVDA over 10 years ago that's now a prized Collector's Item..
to..
- The Bad = an SACD 4 years ago, that was so sloppily put together it's seen as a bit of a joke..
to..
- The Fugly = a potentially Lossy DVDV in 2013.

Well, that's progress for you..!!

 

[JonUrban]

Is 'DVD Audio' really 'DVD-Audio' or merely Audio on a DVD? I wonder what this will be?

Good work, Bob

 

[fredblue]

That's why I mentioned it. however you can get 96/24 stereo on a dvd. Smart ass comments are not helpful. Especially at this stage.

your relaying of the info is much appreciated but with respect, whats wrong with light-heartedly picking up on a typographical error of the title of a bona fide classic album in a press release!?

my point was, if the PR people can get that wrong, they can get "DVD Audio" wrong too.
hence I'll wait and see, thank you.

Now, I'll just go and play my copy of The Bootles' Colonel Mustard and his lovely Cluedo Board...

 

[rtbluray]

I think I'm gonna email R&T about the online petition on Sony's website to let them know what we really want!

Can we get up to 400 votes?!
http://feedback.legacyrecordings.co...229-release-elp-5-1-mixes-in-high-resolution-

 

[Bob Romano]

Is 'DVD Audio' really 'DVD-Audio' or merely Audio on a DVD? I wonder what this will be?

Good work, Bob

These first two will be Audio DVD with Dolby and DTS according to what I was told. I emailed Bob Hoch today to explain the difference.

He also told me that "Welcome Back..." is also on the schedule to be released as part of this program. It will start with expanded versions of the first 6 albums. They are watching what the first two do number wise. The good news is that the response has been very positive so far.

 

[pklshpu]

I wonder why nearly everything regarding ELP in the last 15 years or so is always slower than stated. If they talk about a reunion on year X, you may count X + 3. If there's a book to be published on year Y, count Y + 4, and so on. If Emerson speaks of a Piano Concerto No. 2, wait your whole life to see it. Even with re-re-re-releases that's a fact. That comes from a band that released 3 albums from November 1970 (UK release date of ST album) to November 1971 (UK Release date of PAAE).

 

[kap'n krunch]

I wonder why nearly everything regarding ELP in the last 15 years or so is always slower than stated. If they talk about a reunion on year X, you may count X + 3. If there's a book to be published on year Y, count Y + 4, and so on. If Emerson speaks of a Piano Concerto No. 2, wait your whole life to see it. Even with re-re-re-releases that's a fact. That comes from a band that released 3 albums from November 1970 (UK release date of ST album) to November 1971 (UK Release date of PAAE).

Well, the band itself is in their 60's and have partied a lot (at least Keith..and Greg)..
-Keith will NEVER play in the same virtuoso way he used to -he himself says it - has had carpal tunnel syndrome and several surgeries on his right hand/wrist, that's why in the later concerts everything is so slow and simplified.
-Greg is HUUUUGEEEEEEEE, his voice changed and he is living the easy life. I have read that he has been working "with" Steven Wilson regarding the reissues in MCH, so at least he's there...up to a point.
-Carl, I think is the only one who is in the best shape..he has even learned to not change tempos so much within the same song (rushing/dragging)...

But then we have the Evil Empire, I mean , the record companies...who simply don't care and can't be bothered to roll with the changes and blame it all on illegal downloading, even when CDs have made a slight comeback and LPs are selling better every year.

Besides, the world nowadays is a completely different ball game..it's polluted to no end and the vibes are really bad compared to the good ole' times.

 

[fredblue]

These first two will be Audio DVD with Dolby and DTS according to what I was told. I emailed Bob Hoch today to explain the difference.

He also told me that "Welcome Back..." is also on the schedule to be released as part of this program. It will start with expanded versions of the first 6 albums. They are watching what the first two do number wise. The good news is that the response has been very positive so far.

I'm so intrigued as to what numbers they are expecting these releases to sell in, in order to justify the reissue programmes' continuance?

let's hope they keep it in perspective, these are 40 year old Prog rock albums. they're hardly going to fly off shelves like more mainstream acts' reissues now, are they.

While I don't agree with everything the likes of MFSL or Hip-O do, I do admire those times they produce numbered Limited Edition reissues, they at least give some idea of the numbers involved in making their reissues worth doing, as they keep on churning them out. 2..3,4.. 5000 copies?

so at just what point can the production costs of these releases make them worthwhile? how much extra does the DVD cost the label to produce & replicate? From mixing to mastering to pressing to getting it out there in stores, are we talking 10's of thousands of $? 100's of thousands of $? Linda came up with some interesting figures and calculations, I can't find them right now but they seemed to indicate that things like the Quadios made money, yet still they got pulled

moreover, it can be a DVD A or DVD V, whatever it is makes no difference according to Neil Wilkes, it's just the dramatically increased costs for blu-ray that make them a non-starter afaik.

I've asked all over the place and never got an answer on the logistics of it all.

Now, I've found Universal Music's London offices, looking around online. Maybe I'll nip down there one lunch break, see if I can get any joy.. I'll probably get shown the door, if I even get a look in..!

 

[Quad Linda]

The problem is that although it's about numbahs, the record companies are too dumb or crooked to know how to count.

 

[pklshpu]

Well, the band itself is in their 60's and have partied a lot (at least Keith..and Greg)..
-Keith will NEVER play in the same virtuoso way he used to -he himself says it - has had carpal tunnel syndrome and several surgeries on his right hand/wrist, that's why in the later concerts everything is so slow and simplified.
-Greg is HUUUUGEEEEEEEE, his voice changed and he is living the easy life. I have read that he has been working "with" Steven Wilson regarding the reissues in MCH, so at least he's there...up to a point.
-Carl, I think is the only one who is in the best shape..he has even learned to not change tempos so much within the same song (rushing/dragging)...

But then we have the Evil Empire, I mean , the record companies...who simply don't care and can't be bothered to roll with the changes and blame it all on illegal downloading, even when CDs have made a slight comeback and LPs are selling better every year.

Besides, the world nowadays is a completely different ball game..it's polluted to no end and the vibes are really bad compared to the good ole' times.

I hear you, and couldn't agree with you more on your comments on Keith/Greg/Carl. Indeed some of that has been in my throat for years!
I was very sad with Emerson's playing issues. I respect the man for his courage, for his personal drama, and because he could talk openly about the subject. But it's a bit sad to me watching him live since 1997 (his playing was fantastic in a 1993 show I went!).
What is harder to me to understand, and of course that's an opinion, is why his/their compositional standards fell so much in the '90s, and why those terrible synth patches. That fake GEM-piano-strings-everything-MIDI-at-the-same-time killed the subtleties of songs like Take a Pebble/From the Beginning, that terrible "Europe-Final Countdown-like" brass synth sound Emo used everywhere didn't even allow one to hear the notes right, that from a man who used to have the best brass synth sounds in the planet (Time and a Place, Fanfare, the "Lyra" brass on KE9 etc.).
When ELP reunited in 1992, I was naive enough to think we would have albums on the level of Trilogy, BSS, but I would be satisfied with an ELPowell level (I like that album). Instead, I found disappointing studio albums (I don't think "Black Moon" is a bad album, many bands will retire without ever producing something like that, I just think it is bad considering what ELP can/could do).

I have a question. I read many times Carl had problems with keeping the tempo (rushing/dragging as kap'n krunch pointed out). When talking to some drummers I know, tha issue was something that came when talking about Carl. I didn't hear that myself (maybe because my listening is too much Emerson oriented). Is there particular tracks on ELP catalogue one can hear that more easily?

 

[Bob Romano]

Listen to Karn Evil 9. Especially the excerpt they play on the radio (1st Impression part 2) or many of the tracks on the first Asia lp. It's amazing to me that they could keep up.

 

[tarkusnj]

Well, the band itself is in their 60's and have partied a lot (at least Keith..and Greg)..
-Keith will NEVER play in the same virtuoso way he used to -he himself says it - has had carpal tunnel syndrome and several surgeries on his right hand/wrist, that's why in the later concerts everything is so slow and simplified.

I don't believe Keith has the carpal tunnel any longer. It has been stated by him that it is focal dystonia (look it up) which causes his figures to curl up. Keith had cancelled his KE Band tour a couple of years ago and produced a doctors note explaining this to get out of the contract dates for the tour. The carpal tunnel problem was his earlier problem and I believe it was corrected.

 

[kap'n krunch]

.....

I have a question. I read many times Carl had problems with keeping the tempo (rushing/dragging as kap'n krunch pointed out). When talking to some drummers I know, tha issue was something that came when talking about Carl. I didn't hear that myself (maybe because my listening is too much Emerson oriented). Is there particular tracks on ELP catalogue one can hear that more easily?

The first one that comes to mind was Asia's "Heat of the moment" where he can't decide which tempo to play at...don't think it was a "production" issue...


Also agree on
-Emo's patches are horrid,
-ELPowell was awesome and Cozy was the best drummer they ever had (saw them in Boston!)..it was another beast...also saw ELP in '92 and it was a great show!
-"Black Moon" was substandard...but by then Greg had been transformed into Jabba The Hutt (his voice and appearance)

 

[pklshpu]

I don't believe Keith has the carpal tunnel any longer. It has been stated by him that it is focal dystonia (look it up) which causes his figures to curl up. Keith had cancelled his KE Band tour a couple of years ago and produced a doctors note explaining this to get out of the contract dates for the tour. The carpal tunnel problem was his earlier problem and I believe it was corrected.

I believe you're right, tarkusnj. I read somewhere that around 1996 Keith had some tests done and clinically the nerve response in his right hand/arm was normal.

Nevertheless, something is definitely not right. I could never get if he got surgery sequels or other things were going on. My guess is there must be some relevant physical problem still there. I'd bet a million on it.

This youtube video shows better than anything else what I'm talking about (this is a performance from 2007).
Another youtube video shows the same piece of music played by him circa 1977

Notice that in the 2007 video he can force his last 2 fingers down to the keyboard (flexors), but he has bad timing bringing them back up (extensors). So he uses the hand (raises it) everytime he wants to take his last 2 fingers off the keyboard (otherwise they'd keep the keys down). I've noticed this issue discretely in the four 1997 ELP shows I went (and it seems it got worse in later years). Didn't notice any of that in a 1993 show.
Also, notice/hear his right hand has lost a lot of strenght, and seems to be another persons's hand (compare with the left hand, the right hand is thinner and has thicker joints).
There is a Brazilian musician, Joao Carlos Martins (by coincidence the very pianist who introduced Ginastera's music to Emerson when they met in a Zubin Mehta early 1970 orchestral event which "The Nice" and Martins took part along with Daniel Barenboin, Ray Charles, Jerry Goodman etc.), who had a similar surgery that the one Emerson went through. Martins had other health issues before and after the surgery, so their case is not the same. But some years after the surgery, Martins had to more or less quit his piano career and start conducting, and his right hand were kind of deformed, his fingers curled completely. I suspect something in a lesser degree could have happened with Emo.

Joao Carlos Martins playing ca 2012, youtube video
Joao Carlos Martins playing Ginastera Piano Concerto No. 1, 1974, youtube video, Toccata starts at 4'19''

 

[quad57]

Carl had Carpal Tunnel surgery, not Keith. or in his case Carlpal Tunnel.

 

[pklshpu]

Was it Ulnar nerve surgery, perhaps?

 

[tarkusnj]

I tried calling Razor & Tie on Tuesday but the phone just kept ringing. I think they knew it was me calling....

 

[rtbluray]

What do you think the chances are for the expanded 5.1 version of Trilogy being released at the end of this year?
I say we're more likely to see it early next year, especially since the first two have been pushed a few weeks, but I hope I'm wrong.
I also wonder if we will see an alternate track list for Disc 2, or they will keep the original running order and add the other tracks at the end. We'll see...

PS. We've surpassed 400 votes! http://feedback.legacyrecordings.co...229-release-elp-5-1-mixes-in-high-resolution-