ELP Emerson Lake & Palmer Cataloge in 5.1 Surround

[pklshpu]

I must say I always thought Benny The Bouncer was the worst track of BSS.

By reading Keith Emerson's biography (pp.180-1), one gets the clear indication that "Lucky Man" is also a filler, at least considering Keith Emerson and Carl Palmer. Maybe even to Greg Lake "Lucky Man" was a filler. Lake said, in studio with E & P, according to Emerson, that it was "just a bit of fun" (p. 180).

I'm not talking about Mr. Wilson nor about any post from anyone else in particular, I'm just getting into the filler idea. So filler-wise, if we take that as an objective criterion, "Lucky Man", "Jeremy Bender", "Are You Ready Eddy?", "Benny The Bouncer", the entire "Works Volume 2" are fillers. And the list may grow: one could add "C'est la vie", "Tank" from Works 1, "Nutrocker", "Peter Gunn" and the entire Side A of "Love Beach" (I'd cut them all if I had to choose better tracks on their respective albums for any reason). And then, if one considers "Jeremy" and "Benny" fillers, then he/she will also say quite the same about "The Sheriff". And then the entire "saloon"/"old west" subgenre of ELP is erased from history (if "lesser" tracks are going to be ruled out).
Well, apparently, no classic album of ELP is completely safe from less ambitious tracks! Shall we bother to check "Black Moon" and "In The Hot Seat"?

I wonder if such a "filler band" like this really deserves any attention at all (LOL)!!!!. If Prog detractors (and I'm talking about guys like Lester Bangs, who understood ELP as deeply as I could grasp Milli Vanilli) used such a line of thought, ELP and others would be out of business maybe way before 1977!

I suspect that as high level as an album gets, bigger the chances are to have fillers appearing here and there. After all, isn't it a "relative" effect, that comes by comparison with the other tracks? Maybe it's easier to find fillers in bands like ELP than in 3-chord bands. Maybe everything that you put as a neighbor to Karn Evil 9 will sound like a filler. Maybe everything that is a neighbor to a Spice Girls' track in a compilation album will make it sound like a filler!

Also wonder if ELP is the only good band with that issue going on. I don't think so. It seems to me that taking risks sometimes is behind good but heterogenous albums.
I suppose (again, taking fillers as an objetive criterion): "More Fool Me" is a filler on "Selling England By The Pound" (Genesis), "Horizons" (it hurts me to even think about this!) a filler on "Foxtrot" (Genesis), "Cans and Brahms" and "We Have Heaven" fillers on "Fragile" (Yes).

Should these tracks have "special" treatment in the future because they're fillers? I guess not, and my only point here is that "filler" in itself, alone, with no other issues going on, is a dangerous concept.
But I see that's not the case in question! I can understand that with the ELP 2012 releases there were missing and rediscovered reels kind of pushing decisions (BTW, thank you, Steven Wilson, for the kind and detailed answer!). I just wouldn't like to see in the future "lesser tracks" being cut for no reason other than someone thinks they are lesser tracks. Again, I'm not talking about the upcoming ELP edition here, I'm talking about one day such decisions be in wrong hands. I'm worried about future editions, with other people envolved and with Corporations eagerer and eagerer to reinvent and re-release a catalogue with forceful "new" ideas.

 

[Quad Linda]

I LOVE C'est la Vie, Nutrocker and Peter Gunn. I think most folks love Lucky Man. Regardless of anyone's opinion, including ELP themselves, these are all great tracks and far from filler.

An album should ALWAYS be presented in its' full version, whether 2ch or 5.1. Things like the Quadrophenia "rip off" box in 5.1 with only 8 songs, which I bought, or early CD's trimmed to fit a single disc are unacceptable. Removing fillers for later pressings or removing songs and substituting others, which was done in the LP days, is also ridiculous.

 

[pklshpu]

I LOVE C'est la Vie, Nutrocker and Peter Gunn. I think most folks love Lucky Man. Regardless of anyone's opinion, including ELP themselves, these are all great tracks and far from filler.

An album should ALWAYS be presented in its' full version, whether 2ch or 5.1. Things like the Quadrophenia "rip off" box in 5.1 with only 8 songs, which I bought, or early CD's trimmed to fit a single disc are unacceptable. Removing fillers for later pressings or removing songs and substituting others, which was done in the LP days, is also ridiculous.

Absolutely! One never knows what track makes someone buy an album! I love "Peter Gunn" (I like ELP's version way more than the original), I like Nutrocker and, considering the band's catalogue, the only tracks I really don't get are "Love Beach", "C'est La vie" and half-dozen from "In The Hot Seat". But I'd feel sad if any of those were cut off.

I do remember one case that particularly made me mad. Once I was glad enough to find Weather Report's "8:30" album finally on CD. I bought it without paying attention to the tracklist. When I got home, I was furious to learn that "Scarlett Woman" was cut in order that the set list fit a single CD and not a double CD... Some years after I had to buy it again, as a double CD, to have the original album!

 

[Quad Linda]

I had the Japanese 2 CD of 8:30 before the domestic came out. I saw WR live at Poplar Creek (RIP) in Hoffman Estates, IL. Papa Joe said, "now Jaco's going to do his thing." Jaco sat atop his amp and played Purple Haze solo on his bass! There is a new Complete '71-'75 Weather Report 7 CD box set on Columbia. It includes 7 bonus tracks and the 2CD Live in Tokyo, which I have on a 2 CD Japanese import. http://www.spincds.com/blog/2012/06/20/weather-report-complete-columbia-albums-1971-1975-7cd/

Now, back to the wonderful world of ELP!

Absolutely!...I do remember one case that particularly made me mad. Once I was glad enough to find Weather Report's "8:30" album finally on CD. I bought it without paying attention to the tracklist. When I got home, I was furious to learn that "Scarlett Woman" was cut in order that the set list fit a single CD and not a double CD... Some years after I had to buy it again, as a double CD, to have the original album!

 

[pklshpu]

I had the Japanese 2 CD of 8:30 before the domestic came out. I saw WR live at Poplar Creek (RIP) in Hoffman Estates, IL. Papa Joe said, "now Jaco's going to do his thing." Jaco sat atop his amp and played Purple Haze solo on his bass!

I'm sorry to get out of topic, but get out of here, you've seen them! If there's a band I wish I could see playing live, that band is WR. Especially in the Jaco era!

 

[Quad Linda]

BTW: Welcome to QQ, phishpu!! Not only did I see them, but it was in the 'burbs, a couple miles from home. Check out the new thread, which I'm still building, with 20 new/last fall Columbia box sets, none of which are ELP: https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...plete-Box-Sets&p=152365&highlight=#post152365

 

[pklshpu]

Thanks, Linda! I'm checking your thread now! Tons of good stuff!!

 

[mwk-empire]

Just got this from Amazon:

"Unfortunately, the release date for the item(s) listed below was changed by the supplier, and we need to provide you with a new estimated delivery date based on the new release date:

Lake & Palmer Emerson "Tarkus"

Estimated arrival date: August 01 2012 - August 02 2012"

Seems we have to wait even longer...

Markus

 

[user 1679]

I got the same message. I think Sony and R&T are trying to get their release dates in sync for these.

 

[timbre4]

Veering off topic and back

Saw Jaco in LA with WR @ Dorothy Chandler Pavillion in 1978, with Joni Mitchell @ Greek Theatre 1979 (Pat Metheny in band too), then inSan Diego fronting Word Of Mouth in San Diego 1982. He reverse heckled me when I asked "who's your guitar player?" "Charlie Christian" he replied, without missing a beat. (it was Mike Stern; passed me in Men's room after he had finished getting coked up)

Back to ELP and "filler", you have to provide contrast color or relief from intensity. This is something some metal bands never understand; if it's intense all of the time it gets dull.

Would I prefer 45 minutes of Karn Evil 9? Maybe, but I would offer that the BSS album sequencing is just about perfect. Jerusalem = majestic beauty, Tocatta = violent intensity, Still You Turn Me On = pull you back from the edge of madness, Benny The Bouncer = let's have a bit of a laugh before it get's ominous and deadly serious, Karn Evil 9 1st Impression = intense crown jewel, 2nd Impression = Ease up explore other mysteries behind the galloping piano, 3rd Impression = final act, make or break for humanity.

No small feat, no accident. They would never match the focus they put into this record again.

 

[Quadwreck]

There may be some good news in this delay. Remember when we let EMI know we preferred high-res surround and they added the Blu-ray disc to the Aqualung deluxe package? This might be the same situation, thanks to consumers telling Sony what we want.

 

[MyCuff]

Has anybody not voted? Never too late, well until it is...

 

[rikpepe]

Dear Steven Wilson,
Thanks for doing this great work - ELP fans are sometimes rough! - But they are the most dedicated.- Frivolous songs?- I agree and not with you and everybody - ANYTHING YOU DO IS JAKE WITH ME!!! - Sony have let some hack -hack it up- Thanks God it was you!!! I/we WILL ETERNALLY GRATEFUL.m I can't wait for the Discs to arrive.

I really like the re-imagining theme. We have suffered through a countless burping of mostly pathetic releases all claiming to be "remastered" with only a few noteworthy -thanks MSFL Tarkus and Trilogy & rhino DVD-audio and a rare Tarkus in what can only be said in pristine quality? The first official CD releases sounded like it had ? LP pops and pathetic hiss. For this reason alone I will treasure forever your interpretations.

PLEASE CONSIDER A ONE OFF 5.1 OF PIRATES.

why ? because i did an "official" video of Pirates.
I ask this in all due humility.
But Pirates is arguably the PENULTIMATE ELP song. By penultimate I mean the most representative. It has all the great ELP elements including orchestra complimented by Lake/Pete Sinfield's evocative lyrics
I know that the group loves this video interpretation. Whatever the lyric said you see it on the screen I did the this as assiduously as I could.
here is the link posted by my friend Joe Hannigan on vimeo.com:

http://vimeo.com/1466041

A video interpretation of ELP's "Pirates", from the "WORKS, VOL 1." CD/LP.
Sacred Cow Productions
A Video by Rik Pepe
Inspired by the music & lyrics of Emerson, Lake, Palmer and Sinfield.


5 questions more (will they ever end?)
1. what would your ELP priorities be? would be "in order" or woulld you skip? We really want to hear Trilogy!!!
2. Re Works Vol 1 I would suggest at least Pirates and Fanfare.

3. Is Rave up and Drum solo= Tank?
4. Re Works 2 - yes - it was outtakes but what outtakes they were! I will take ELP Outtakes and filler any day over most other one trick pony groups. Theses filler and Outtakes showed the variety and experimental natures of ELP. They dared, may have failed RARELY sometimes but were brave enough and had the chops enough to try. A fun 5.1 song of this type would be When the apple blossoms bloom or Brain Salad surgery (the Song)?

5. ELP had done the first Rock surround (or so it was told) piece in the Return of the Manticore box set with Pictures at an exhibition in some very early dolby "surround" sound technology. Would that be an easy piece to bring up to modern discrete 5.1 formats?

Of course I would love to hear your 5.1 Brain salad surgery of course- absolutely OK I your treatment of the whole catalog. Heck I'll pay! Another frontier LIVE AQUATARKUS (my personal favorite)

Thanks!
Rik
Did daniel send you my Email?

 

[Ranasakawa]

I played my very expensive SACD of Brain Salad Surgery yesterday. If these new mixes sound as good as this i'll be in heaven.

 

[LizardKing]

I can't wait for Trilogy.... its on my Area 51 list (below) - especially if they sort out hi-rez by then:

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...p-to-51-Titles&p=134140&viewfull=1#post134140

 

[Bob Romano]

You can now go to the ELP merchandise page http://elp.merchnow.com and order directly from Razor & Tie for $19 per disc set plus $4.47 (for me anyway) for shipping. $42.47 for both shipped from the states. Other shipping methods are available as well. Estimated shipping date is 8/14/2012.

 

[0tto]

Wilson, a skilled producer and engineer as well as founder of the band Porcupine Tree, received a Grammy nomination for his surround sound mixes of that bands album, Fear of a Black Hat, has also remixed Jethro Tull and King Crimson back catalogues.

how come that i had missed one surround album from SW.
anyone was more in luck and have in his/her pile one extra "Fear of a Black Hat"? i'll pay pretty generously

b.t.w. Bob, if you're already in touch with them, please ask them to correct format of third disc as an Audio only DVD.
they state it as DVD Audio, which isn't true.

 

[kap'n krunch]

how come that i had missed one surround album from SW.
anyone was more in luck and have in his/her pile one extra "Fear of a Black Hat"? i'll pay pretty generously

b.t.w. Bob, if you're already in touch with them, please ask them to correct format of third disc as an Audio only DVD.
they state it as DVD Audio, which isn't true.

I think it's "Fear of a Black CAT"

 

[neil wilkes]

b.t.w. Bob, if you're already in touch with them, please ask them to correct format of third disc as an Audio only DVD.
they state it as DVD Audio, which isn't true.

Confused, Otto.
What title is listed as DVD-A instead of Audio-only DVD? ELP? PT? AFAIK, all the PT surround releases are full DVD-A/V.
Cannot comment on the ELP though, but thought only 2 had been so far announced.

 

[timbre4]

Thanks Bob, I did the same order.
'
Black Hat, that's funny.