ELP Emerson Lake & Palmer Cataloge in 5.1 Surround

[rontoon]

I'm new to this forum and am disappointed to see the perpetuation of this back and forth type of argument but understanding human nature I guess I shouldn't be surprised. And I don't think it's so much ego but rather tarkusnj's own unrealistic expectations not being met. If you have preconceived notions and hear in your head what you think should be the mix before the product is released then there is an excellent chance of being disappointed.

I love reading articulate, well-informed opinions about these releases because, having an open mind, it allows me to explore these opinions, however different from mine, with each successive listen.

 

[Pockets17red]

I am waiting for the next batch which I have heard will be sometime early next year.

:banana:

 

[tarkusnj]

I'm new to this forum and am disappointed to see the perpetuation of this back and forth type of argument but understanding human nature I guess I shouldn't be surprised. And I don't think it's so much ego but rather tarkusnj's own unrealistic expectations not being met. If you have preconceived notions and hear in your head what you think should be the mix before the product is released then there is an excellent chance of being disappointed.

I love reading articulate, well-informed opinions about these releases because, having an open mind, it allows me to explore these opinions, however different from mine, with each successive listen.

It is in part my expectations not being met as far as the surround treatment but if anyone sat down with me for an AB comparison to the original Tarkus master tapes and the DVD-A mix, there is actual instrumentation that has been omitted and/or buried. It is not surprising that I would notice this and and quite frankly I am not surprised no one else has. I realize this now.
Like someone else said, let's move on.

 

[Old Quad Guy]

Yes, let's move on here..

Ok, no one was able to answer the album cover question. So here should be a simple one.

How many Quad albums did ELP release? When (perhaps even year) did they start to tour with a Quad set-up? And what year did they stop using such set-up? Did they have a Quad set-up for the tour with the full orchestra?

 

[tarkusnj]

Yes, let's move on here..

Ok, no one was able to answer the album cover question. So here should be a simple one.

How many Quad albums did ELP release? When (perhaps even year) did they start to tour with a Quad set-up? And what year did they stop using such set-up? Did they have a Quad set-up for the tour with the full orchestra?

The only Quad album I know of was WBMF. Trilogy, to my knowledge, was never actually released although I believe it was assigned a catalog number. WBMF was on 8-track tape and I think the original 3-record set was going to be pressed in a quad format also.
When ELP toured with their BSS show beginning in the States, November of 73, they lugged that sound system around from show to show and the tour ended in the States in August 74. I know they were playing Karn Evil 9 in Europe early Spring of 73 but I don't think they used the quad system probably until BSS was released later in the year.
And they didn't use it for any other tour. Carl has said it was really not true quad and that they just did the sound for the fans enjoyment.
When ELPowell toured in 86, they used a speaker or 2 suspended at the rear of the venue but only used it during Mars and the encore which disappointed me. I lugged in 2 LONG shotgun mics and 4 regular mics along with a portable mixer, cables and Nak 550 to tape the show. The guy who held the stand for the mics looked like an alien!

 

[strat54]

I don't think it's so much ego but rather tarkusnj's own unrealistic expectations not being met.

I don't think tarkusnj's expectations are totally unrealistic.
He is highly familiar with the nuances of the Offord mixes, its balance and the elements that inject excitement.
He has heard them perform this music live several times, as have I, through a quadraphonic P.A. system during the BSS/WBMF tours and knows how that sounds. So I think his expectations, and certainly mine, come from that experience.
The BSS DVD-A comes closest to that original intent. I guess you had to be there.

 

[rontoon]

I don't think tarkusnj's expectations are totally unrealistic.
He is highly familiar with the nuances of the Offord mixes, its balance and the elements that inject excitement.
He has heard them perform this music live several times, as have I, through a quadraphonic P.A. system during the BSS/WBMF tours and knows how that sounds. So I think his expectations, and certainly mine, come from that experience.
The BSS DVD-A comes closest to that original intent. I guess you had to be there.

I'm sorry if I was being unclear with my statement. By unrealistic I simply meant that it was unrealistic to expect Steven Wilson to have the same 5.1 sensibilities/interpretation as tarkusnj. I certainly respect the "opinion" of any hardcore fan that is knowledgeable about their albums and live performances as long as it is articulated intelligently and respectfully.

 

[strat54]

I am waiting for the next batch which I have heard will be sometime early next year.

So I guess they are already mixed?
Start sharpening those axes :howl
(just kidding, my feeble attempt at comedy) bah-dum-tsch

 

[Old Quad Guy]

I don't think tarkusnj's expectations are totally unrealistic.
He is highly familiar with the nuances of the Offord mixes, its balance and the elements that inject excitement.
He has heard them perform this music live several times, as have I, through a quadraphonic P.A. system during the BSS/WBMF tours and knows how that sounds. So I think his expectations, and certainly mine, come from that experience.
The BSS DVD-A comes closest to that original intent. I guess you had to be there.

But I wasn't there, at least for ELP shows unfortunately. So we're relying on those who we're there to give us info. Think about it.. We're the last of the actual eye-witnesses to history. If we don't share what we saw, the info will be lost. So, it is cool and very good to know about what one saw at shows and what the Quadraphonic era as a whole was. There are also blog tools here for each one of us to post and share our experiences. So I recommend we all sit down and put our best foot forward by carefully writing about our experiences back then.

Trust this fact, part of what QQ is about is to be the living history of what it was like in the 1970s - to be read by those 50-100 years from now.

 

[strat54]

I'm sorry if I was being unclear with my statement. By unrealistic I simply meant that it was unrealistic to expect Steven Wilson to have the same 5.1 sensibilities/interpretation as tarkusnj. I certainly respect the "opinion" of any hardcore fan that is knowledgeable about their albums and live performances as long as it is articulated intelligently and respectfully.

Cool, gotcha. Thanks

 

[rontoon]

But I wasn't there, at least for ELP shows unfortunately. So we're relying on those who we're there to give us info. Think about it.. We're the last of the actual eye-witnesses to history. If we don't share what we saw, the info will be lost. So, it is cool and very good to know about what one saw at shows and what the Quadraphonic era as a whole was. There are also blog tools here for each one of us to post and share our experiences. So I recommend we all sit down and write and put our best foot forward.

Trust this fact, part of what QQ is about is to be the living history of what it was like in the 1970s - to be read by those 50-100 years from now.

My 1st ELP show was at the now-famous Nassau Coliseum gig from 2/9/78 that they have recently issued as an official bootleg. I have many great detailed memories of this show but whether or not it was performed in quad is unfortunately not one of them. I also saw them in later that year at the now-deceased Hollywood Spotatorium. Definitely worth every penny of the $7.50 I spent on each show.

It's a shame what they did to some of our ticket stubs back then.

 

[tarkusnj]

My 1st ELP show was at the now-famous Nassau Coliseum gig from 2/9/78 that they have recently issued as an official bootleg. I have many great detailed memories of this show but whether or not it was performed in quad is unfortunately not one of them. I also saw them in later that year at the now-deceased Hollywood Spotatorium. Definitely worth every penny of the $7.50 I spent on each show.

It's a shame what they did to some of our ticket stubs back then.

I was at both shows at the Nassau Coliseum. I taped the one show and they broadcast the other. The official recording is missing a few tunes I believe. I think there was a lot of snow right before those shows just like the 73 Christmas BSS shows at MSG.

 

[Old Quad Guy]

That's really cool, the ticket stubs. Yeah, was disappointing how they had torn tickets up. Sometimes they would just hand them back to you or rip them to shreds. When I saw the Sex Pistols last U.S. show with "Sid Vicious," in 1978 at Winterland, they purposely tore the show info off and only gave a stub, which I still have. They also confiscated the half pint of booze I had hidden in my boot that my friends and I were going to share inside the venue.

But that was a Bill Graham show for you. Sometimes at different shows here they let you bring in whatever you wanted, or threw everything away.

 

[rontoon]

That's really cool, the ticket stubs. Yeah, was disappointing how they had torn tickets up. Sometimes they would just hand them back to you or rip them to shreds.

Well if anyone is interested in my ticket stub history, and I've save the stubs from every concert I attended starting back in 1977, here's a link for ya. I still need to update this to include the shows I've seen over the past few years.

http://www.harvested.org/MAIN PAGE/Ticket Stubs/1970s Tickets.html

 

[Old Quad Guy]

Well if anyone is interested in my ticket stub history, and I've save the stubs from every concert I attended starting back in 1977, here's a link for ya. I still need to update this to include the shows I've seen over the past few years.

http://www.harvested.org/MAIN%20PAGE/Ticket%20Stubs/1970s%20Tickets.html

Thanks, that's totally cool. Look at how inexpensive it was to see a great show back then!

 

[fluid]

I have some questions, based on the posibilty of a future Pictures release and WBMF, is it possible there is a Pictures encore from the BSS tour that was taped but unused, not the cal jam stuff, and in regard of Pictures from Newcastle City hall why was the rest of the gig not taped, or was it.

 

[tarkusnj]

Thanks, that's totally cool. Look at how inexpensive it was to see a great show back then!

Hey, I saw Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, the Chambers Brothers and the Soft Machine at one show for about $4 back in 69.

 

[tarkusnj]

I have some questions, based on the posibilty of a future Pictures release and WBMF, is it possible there is a Pictures encore from the BSS tour that was taped but unused, not the cal jam stuff, and in regard of Pictures from Newcastle City hall why was the rest of the gig not taped, or was it.

I would guess that the entire WBMF King Biscuit Flower Hour show was taped including Pictures and Rondo. If those tapes exist, it would be a great find. The Newcastle City Hall show probably the same and a copy DOES exist without the annoying cartoon overlays but the negotiations for the unaltered video being released has not been finalized to my knowledge and I do not know whether or not any additional video is available.

 

[tarkusnj]

Well if anyone is interested in my ticket stub history, and I've save the stubs from every concert I attended starting back in 1977, here's a link for ya. I still need to update this to include the shows I've seen over the past few years.

http://www.harvested.org/MAIN PAGE/Ticket Stubs/1970s Tickets.html

So rontoon, I guess we all should know you are a PF fanatic. We have connected before on Yeeshkul. You must have a copy of my PF MSG July 4, 1977 show and my 79 Wall show. I used 3 mics L-R+Center for the Wall show at Nassau Colisseum. And I have your GREAT Chicago video with the upmix surround. You should have my 4-mic/dual recorders, DD encoded recording of the Wall from MSG also.

 

[wavelength]

So I recommend we all sit down and put our best foot forward by carefully writing about our experiences back then.

Well, you know what they say...if you remember the 70s you weren't really there.