Frank Zappa Waka/Wazoo Deluxe 4CD + Blu-Ray 5.1 and Atmos!!!!

[mboddy]

There are no volume differences on my disc bought here in Norway, and the general volume is maybe a little low but not by much compared to other discs I have. This is for the Atmos mix, I don't listen to the other mixes.

My disc bought in Australia appears to be the USA version.
The volume of the WAZOO Atmos is very very low. It is a faulty disc and must be replaced.

 

[esimms86]

I didn’t say I didn’t like the mix, just the interface! I don’t rip anything anymore! That’s too much like work and I just want to enjoy the content. I have 8 TB of ripped content that I’ve assembled over the years.

It may be worth your while to make an exception in this case and rip the disc. You would be looking at the time and effort put into ripping versus the fact you have to deal with the menu every time you play the disc. It’s obviously your decision but I know what I would choose(speaking as someone who rips everything AND also has a healthy fear of disc rot).

 

[esimms86]

My disc bought in Australia appears to be the USA version.
The volume of the WAZOO Atmos is very very low. It is a faulty disc and must be replaced.

IMHO they would almost certainly have to replace the disc if they have any intent to sell future Zappa releases to their customer base.

 

[ergalthema]

Thought I'd give the 5.1 mix a shot since I didn't really care for the Atmos mix overall. While it was a little less intense without the overhead speakers, it was still too overwhelming for me to enjoy. I like the possibility of "sitting in the middle of the ensemble", but this feels like every instrument is 2 inches away, pointed directly at my head, constantly, and from all directions (including directly above in Atmos). The lack of reverb exaggerates this (but I like very dry recordings in other mixes). The effect of an ensemble playing directly at me in close proximity like that can be a very cool effect - especially for certain climactic or intimate moments - but I don't want to feel like that throughout most of an album. It's claustrophobic for too long - I want variety - there is so much more opportunity for surround mixes to create different spaces (but again, lack of reverb limits this).

To be clear - I love complicated music with a lot going on simultaneously - including very extreme forms of metal/jazz/RIO/etc. I don't prefer "front heavy" mixes. I might have said something about appreciating "front-focused" stuff like Animals, but I enjoy lots of activity in the surrounds (Sea Change, Yoshimi, etc.). I've always considered myself as someone who enjoys liberal, full use of surrounds (I've created my own surround mixes with stuff flying all around the room). So, I'm surprised that I haven't been able to enjoy this release.

That said - I'm very glad it exists - I hope there will be more FZ surround mixes.

Honestly, I don't recall ever feeling so bombarded by a mix as this - and I've heard quite a lot of surround mixes over the last 25 years. I'm not trying to be a downer or change anyone's opinion. I'm just surprised by how opinionated I am about this one. It's important for me to try to understand why I feel that way. (I'm not as concerned about all the dialnorm levels stuff.)

And while I'm ranting.... Something else (not specific to this release) that has bothered me is how Atmos is technically Dolby TrueHD (but not all TrueHD is Atmos of course). It's terribly confusing for the average consumer. For example, this disc has an Atmos option and a Dolby TrueHD option - but if I choose Atmos, my UBP-X800 player will still say "TrueHD" in the display (my receiver recognizes and specifies Atmos, at least). A friend was confused by that, understandably. And when you consider that the "Atmos" label can also be applied to anything - soundbars, stereo laptops, etc. - it's a confusing mess.

 

[sjcorne]

A friend was confused by that, understandably. And when you consider that the "Atmos" label can also be applied to anything - soundbars, stereo laptops, etc. - it's a confusing mess.

It may seem like a confusing mess from an audiophile point-of-view, but if Atmos were only marketed towards home theaters (like 5.1 was in the early-2000s) it'd have little chance of catching on.

 

[himey]

Thought I'd give the 5.1 mix a shot since I didn't really care for the Atmos mix overall. While it was a little less intense without the overhead speakers, it was still too overwhelming for me to enjoy. I like the possibility of "sitting in the middle of the ensemble", but this feels like every instrument is 2 inches away, pointed directly at my head, constantly, and from all directions (including directly above in Atmos). The lack of reverb exaggerates this (but can like very dry recordings in other mixes). The effect of an ensemble playing directly at me in close proximity like that can be a very cool effect - especially for certain climactic or intimate moments - but I don't want to feel like that throughout most of an album. It's claustrophobic for too long - I want variety - there is so much more opportunity for surround mixes to create different spaces (but again, lack of reverb limits this).

To be clear - I love complicated music with a lot going on simultaneously - including very extreme forms of metal/jazz/RIO/etc. I don't prefer "front heavy" mixes. I might have said something about appreciating "front-focused" stuff like Animals, but I enjoy lots of activity in the surrounds (Sea Change, Yoshimi, etc.). I've always considered myself as someone who enjoys liberal, full use of surrounds (I've created my own surround mixes with stuff flying all around the room). So, I'm surprised that I haven't been able to enjoy this release.

That said - I'm very glad it exists - I hope there will be more FZ surround mixes.

Honestly, I don't recall ever feeling so bombarded by a mix as this - and I've heard quite a lot of surround mixes over the last 25 years. I'm not trying to be a downer or change anyone's opinion. I'm just surprised by how opinionated I am about this one. It's important for me to try to understand why I feel that way. (I'm not as concerned about all the dialnorm levels stuff.)

And while I'm ranting.... Something else (not specific to this release) that has bothered me is how Atmos is technically Dolby TrueHD (but not all TrueHD is Atmos of course). It's terribly confusing for the average consumer. For example, this disc has an Atmos option and a Dolby TrueHD option - but if I choose Atmos, my UBP-X800 player will still say "TrueHD" in the display (my receiver recognizes and specifies Atmos, at least). A friend was confused by that, understandably. And when you consider that the "Atmos" label can also be applied to anything - soundbars, stereo laptops, etc. - it's a confusing mess.

Baby got back! And top!

 

[bayards]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/14491189...0e2tP1uSci&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Ripped Blu-ray so not needed now.

 

[FusionHead]

Listened to the podcast. Really cool to hear these Zappa experts! Did I hear Travers hint at a Hot Rats III release? Was some of the material from Sleep Dirt/Studio Tan recorded in Quad? That would be amazing...

Glad you mentioned those... the trio of albums including Studio Tan, Sleep Dirt, and Orchestral Favorites (later repackaged as Läther) are some of my fave Zappa music. I would LOVE to hear Greggery Peccary, Duke Of Prunes, Filthy Habits, Regyptian Strut, etc. in surround!

 

[jimfisheye]

Glad you mentioned those... the trio of albums including Studio Tan, Sleep Dirt, and Orchestral Favorites (later repackaged as Läther) are some of my fave Zappa music. I would LOVE to hear Greggery Peccary, Duke Of Prunes, Filthy Habits, Regyptian Strut, etc. in surround!

Am I missing the punchline? Läther was infamously repackaged as that handful of albums when Warner Brothers refused to release it after initially green lighting it. There were lawsuits. There were stage "reenactments". It was kind of a big deal and business relationship ending. Frank player the master on the radio and told everyone to record it and not to buy the repackaged albums!

 

[modwerks]

Am I missing the punchline? Läther was infamously repackaged as that handful of albums when Warner Brothers refused to release it after initially green lighting it. There were lawsuits. There were stage "reenactments". It was kind of a big deal and business relationship ending. Frank player the master on the radio and told everyone to record it and not to buy the repackaged albums!

Yes, thanks I'm aware of the history of this material. I was hoping for a re-release of this music in quad(if tapes exist) and/or new 5.1/Atmos mixes...

 

[FusionHead]

Am I missing the punchline? Läther was infamously repackaged as that handful of albums when Warner Brothers refused to release it after initially green lighting it. There were lawsuits. There were stage "reenactments". It was kind of a big deal and business relationship ending. Frank player the master on the radio and told everyone to record it and not to buy the repackaged albums!

I am not referring at all to the business of how the music was released, I am only referring to the content of those releases. I am well aware of Frank’s original intent to release the full collection as Läther and Warner Bros refusal to do so, subsequently breaking up the content into 3 separate releases without Frank’s permission. It was decades later - after regaining ownership of all of his music - that Frank himself released all of the same content (including some alternate takes with added vocals) as the combined album he had originally envisioned. The music is incredibly rich and layered with band and orchestra arrangements, so would be perfect for an Atmos treatment.

 

[jimfisheye]

Four albums counting Zappa in New York. FZ produced all those himself. And they're still great albums! But he did tell everyone not to buy them and made the album covers intentionally downplayed. The original Läther was one of the first posthumous releases. Frank never actually saw its official release. Yeah, that would be a monster remixed in Atmos! No rumors of him ever making quad mixes. That would sure be a holy grail of a find!

If there was any obvious choice after (') for an Atmos remix it would be Läther, right?

 

[FusionHead]

Four albums counting Zappa in New York. FZ produced all those himself. And they're still great albums! But he did tell everyone not to buy them and made the album covers intentionally downplayed. The original Läther was one of the first posthumous releases. Frank never actually saw its official release. Yeah, that would be a monster remixed in Atmos! No rumors of him ever making quad mixes. That would sure be a holy grail of a find!

If there was any obvious choice after (') for an Atmos remix it would be Läther, right?

Sorry, forgot “In New York”, you are right of course. And yes, agreed that Lather would be the greatest Atmos mix to release next, but I very much doubt it will happen… those albums are not as high profile/popular as others. My bet is that they will do One Size Fits All (excellent), maybe Zoot Allures (cool!) and then maybe Joe’s Garage, Sheik Yerbouti, You Are What You Is, etc. The Lather stuff would just not sell enough compared to those other ones… I’m guessing.

 

[modwerks]

Four albums counting Zappa in New York. FZ produced all those himself. And they're still great albums! But he did tell everyone not to buy them and made the album covers intentionally downplayed. The original Läther was one of the first posthumous releases. Frank never actually saw its official release. Yeah, that would be a monster remixed in Atmos! No rumors of him ever making quad mixes. That would sure be a holy grail of a find!

If there was any obvious choice after (') for an Atmos remix it would be Läther, right?

Well it would be One Size Fits All, but apparently even though it was planned (Disc Reet), there are no quad mixes of this?