How is Dolby Atmos Doing? (2023)

[austinsignal]

That first quote I've read in multiple audiophile groups and threads...raises hand in support of loathe.

To be fair the dude in the video didnt mention any of those quotes, or arguments, though he does mention about the investment on an atmos setup and gear to mix, which IMO is valid.

You can get into a good atmos mixing rig for 10k. I'm amazed at how and audio engineer will lovingly pay $5k for a cool compressor, but can't wrap their head around an investment in a mixing environment that enables you to deliver so many formats (5.1, 5.1.4, 7.1, 7.1.4, 7.1.2, 2.0, binaural, Apple Spatial) with one mix effort.

 

[austinsignal]

I watched the entire video, and I appreciate that the author truly enjoys the sonic experience of well-executed Atmos mixes. He expres concern about the financial monetization of the current Atmos/Apple hype, specially for the investors in Atmos studio mixing, considering that the vast majority of consumers will be listening through headphones. His personal experience is about many current Atmos mixes that sound worse than a stereo mix, or if they are good, they still do not provide the complete immersive experience of a well-equipped speaker room.

The entry point for consumers, such as soundbars or Atmos speakers bouncing sound off the ceiling in poorly acoustically conditioned rooms, is subpar and unlikely to attract a significant number of people. High-quality Atmos setups are only affordable for a select group of audiophiles and mixing engineering studios. This situation does not bode well for the future of Atmos music reaching the masses.

All these arguments have been previously discussed, and we fear an eventual negative conclusion.
What can I say, specially to all of us QQ members? Let us appreciate and enjoy as much as we can what we currently have.
What does the near future hold? Will Atmos music disappear in five years? Perhaps, but by then, we will have amassed enough Atmos music to enjoy for a lifetime.

Just like with stereo systems, there's a wide continuum from cheap to really expensive for playback. At SxSW last March, Dolby had a huge installation - one portion of which was a little living room setup: couch, coffee table, TV...a reproduction of a little apartment-sized living room. Sonos ARC soundbar, a pair of ERA 300's, and a sub. It sounded mind-bogglingly good. While not inexpensive, that rig doesn't break the bank.

As an aside, I have an ERA 300 in my studio lounge. That thing is an engineering marvel. I use it to counter the 'no one can afford to listen to ATMOS'... I play a song in stereo through it, then play the same song's ATMOS version. It's amazing. Definitely not 7.1.4 - but far superior, and far more engaging than stereo!

 

[austinsignal]

I watched the entire video, and I appreciate that the author truly enjoys the sonic experience of well-executed Atmos mixes. He expres concern about the financial monetization of the current Atmos/Apple hype, specially for the investors in Atmos studio mixing, considering that the vast majority of consumers will be listening through headphones. His personal experience is about many current Atmos mixes that sound worse than a stereo mix, or if they are good, they still do not provide the complete immersive experience of a well-equipped speaker room.

The entry point for consumers, such as soundbars or Atmos speakers bouncing sound off the ceiling in poorly acoustically conditioned rooms, is subpar and unlikely to attract a significant number of people. High-quality Atmos setups are only affordable for a select group of audiophiles and mixing engineering studios. This situation does not bode well for the future of Atmos music reaching the masses.

All these arguments have been previously discussed, and we fear an eventual negative conclusion.
What can I say, specially to all of us QQ members? Let us appreciate and enjoy as much as we can what we currently have.
What does the near future hold? Will Atmos music disappear in five years? Perhaps, but by then, we will have amassed enough Atmos music to enjoy for a lifetime.

I dunno. In the United States, if you to the Best Buy website and search on Dolby ATMOS, you get pages and pages of devices the support ATMOS. Virtually all the new TV's, AVR's, etc. So it's in front of everyone buying new equipment of all price points. Obviously, I haven't listened to all the various rigs - but it seems to me that a little entry level 'home theater in a box' (soundbar, little sub, 2 surrounds) would sound better than an entry level stereo system. If I was a young person thinking about spending $1500 on a new system, I sure think I'd at least ask about ATMOS...?

 

[austinsignal]

Seems to me one thing that isn't being discussed is prudence and posterity, and Apple is clearly thinking about this. Technology will change, and is changing exponentially. "Soundbars and funky headphones" are just the latest example, and let's also remember these products are for many an entryway to something they didn't even realise existed. Apple is creating new products and the spatial concept is at the centre of things, it seems.

Even if many people can't enjoy this currently, future technological advancements will change this. And Apple will be ready. I really believe this is part of their consideration - the other part being the hype and they money the make from it right now.

Bravo!

 

[austinsignal]

You definitely don't have to remodel a room to build a decent Atmos system, and I don't think the placement specs have to be followed to the letter either.

I'm in a rental, so in-ceiling monitors (which some specs cite as a requirement) were never an option - instead, my heights (Paradigm Atom V3 bookshelf speakers) are mounted on top of Ikea KALLAX cabinets and pointed down. In-ceiling monitors are actually pretty uncommon in the mixing studios too, you tend to see more wall-mounted bookshelf-size monitors (like Genelec 8010s or Kali IN-5-Cs) angled down or even attached directly to the ceiling.

I also think there is some latitude with the placement of the height speakers - for example, lots of 7.1.4 diagrams (like the one below) show that the ceiling speakers are supposed to be positioned in a sort of 'smaller rectangle' within the 'larger rectangle' of your 7.1 floor array.

View attachment 93810

I can't figure why they designed it like this, because lots of Atmos mixes have elements suspended halfway between the front & front heights, rears & rear heights, sides & top middles, and so on. Wouldn't those 'phantom images' be clearer if the speakers were properly aligned?

So I set my room up with the front heights directly above the fronts and rear heights directly above the rears, and it sounds great - I can clearly hear stuff like the lead vocals in Sarah McLachlan's Surfacing album or Katatonia's Sky Void Of Stars hovering between the fronts & front heights.

Funny enough, Frank Filipetti made this same comment when I interviewed him last year:

yes! - just like with stereo, you put your system up, calibrate if you can, and adjust to make it to your liking. The idea that ATMOS listening environments have to be perfectly set up is a complete mischaracterization!

 

[Franck]

Here is another video on Atmos


I think the main complain here is that "Marketers ruin everything"

But as people pointed on this thread, for many audio engineers it is about "who moved my cheese"

 

[Franck]

You can get into a good atmos mixing rig for 10k. I'm amazed at how and audio engineer will lovingly pay $5k for a cool compressor, but can't wrap their head around an investment in a mixing environment that enables you to deliver so many formats (5.1, 5.1.4, 7.1, 7.1.4, 7.1.2, 2.0, binaural, Apple Spatial) with one mix effort.

and even it depends... if you want to be an Atmos Certified Studio or not. For movie work, you have to, for music you don't unless you want to work with majors. My setup is 5.1.4 Focusrite 18i/20 4xHS7 5xHS5 and 1xHS8S. My studio progression was from 2.0 to 2.1, 4.1 and finally 5.1.4

 

[Daniel]

Well, I can see the hype all over about Atmos and I was contemplating adding some ceiling speakers (2 or 4) but for the moment I decided against it. I simply do not trust Apple or Dolby, all they want is to cash in and lock you in and there aren't too many Atmos mixes yet to justify it. There are other frustrating things about it. It cannot be (easily) decoded on a computer, one needs a receiver or another HDMI device that has to comply with whatever standards and revisions that keep changing. It's a frustrating environment.
Now, if an open standard is adopted regarding spatial audio and some restrictions cease to exist, we may see more and more people adopting it. Look here, it seems Google is working on something and I truly hope they succeed.
https://www.protocol.com/entertainment/google-dolby-atmos-vision-project-caviarWe also need a proper standard for spatial audio in regards to mixing, the role of the LFE channel in music as well. I was thinking about some object based format that would actually downmix PERFECTLY to stereo or expand to spatial depending on the system configuration detected. Once a solid foundation for open source standards are set, mainstream interest for the format could peak.
The current state of affairs of spatial audio is total chaos and marketing.

 

[Old Quad Guy]

Well, I can see the hype all over about Atmos and I was contemplating adding some ceiling speakers (2 or 4) but for the moment I decided against it. I simply do not trust Apple or Dolby, all they want is to cash in and lock you in and there aren't too many Atmos mixes yet to justify it. There are other frustrating things about it. It cannot be (easily) decoded on a computer, one needs a receiver or another HDMI device that has to comply with whatever standards and revisions that keep changing. It's a frustrating environment.
Now, if an open standard is adopted regarding spatial audio and some restrictions cease to exist, we may see more and more people adopting it. Look here, it seems Google is working on something and I truly hope they succeed.
https://www.protocol.com/entertainment/google-dolby-atmos-vision-project-caviarWe also need a proper standard for spatial audio in regards to mixing, the role of the LFE channel in music as well. I was thinking about some object based format that would actually downmix PERFECTLY to stereo or expand to spatial depending on the system configuration detected. Once a solid foundation for open source standards are set, mainstream interest for the format could peak.
The current state of affairs of spatial audio is total chaos and marketing.

But it’s just like the 1970s today. No surround system is going to work unless there’s absolute long-term commitment to whatever is being offered. And most importantly, the public needs to have easy access, like in cars or a simple, relatively inexpensive plug and play surround system.

I agree in theory that an open system is better. But as we’ve learned from the past, if you don’t have the surround music and a general accepted format, nothing is going to be successful. So, if Apple and Atmos can do it now, and the public accepts it, then maybe more open systems would follow. But if nothing practical is being offered, like an expansive library of surround music, nothing is going to happen, just as we experienced in the 1970s.

 

[Daniel]

But it’s just like the 1970s today. No surround system is going to work unless there’s absolute long-term commitment to whatever is being offered. And most importantly, the public needs to have easy access, like in cars or a simple, relatively inexpensive plug and play surround system.

I agree in theory that an open system is better. But as we’ve learned from the past, if you don’t have the surround music and a general accepted format, nothing is going to be successful. So, if Apple and Atmos can do it now, and the public accepts it, then maybe more open systems would follow. But if nothing practical is being offered, like an expansive library of surround music, nothing is going to happen, just as we experienced in the 1970s.

Absolutely, the content must be there, it must be created. However, an easier system of delivery, flexible and free to use would be a step forward. In my opinion, that is. Just imagine how bad it would be today is stereo was a proprietary format. Multiple proprietary formats would only bring frustration to the consumer. For example, I was quite annoyed when LG dropped DTS support from their smart TV's.
Apparently Dolby did not invent object based audio so why would their format become a standard? Also, in the video above it is mentioned that DTS X is superior to Atmos in capabilities.

 

[Old Quad Guy]

If some smart startup company got with it, AI could be used to automate instantly the extraction of music (stereo and even mono) into multi-tracks, and remix back into Quad, 5.1 or any other format, for any type system. But, that’s a lot of “IFs” to overcome.

I think it’s good that Google is working on surround. But, not if it creates another format war. However, since things are digital, perhaps different systems can live side by side. I don’t know.

I think the action is going to be, or should be with Car systems, and how fast they can get surround as a standard in them. I’m looking to see what happens here.

And, maybe, a real inexpensive surround sound system with something like 4 (or more) Mini Speakers that one can just hang on the wall. I already have two Google mini speakers on different walls for left/right stereo (the Home app allows you to configure them this way). Add two more, and you get Quad, the minimum for surround.

 

[baward]

Having gone to the faff of installing ‘Atmos speakers’ (i.e. the 6th and 7th speakers in my 7.1 set-up), I remain rather non-plussed. I only have a few Atmos Blu-ray discs to listen on them, rather than subscribing to a costly streaming service - Apple etc. I reckon the happiest element of my ‘home cinema’ set-up is my Sony DN1080

 

[madscot]

Having gone to the faff of installing ‘Atmos speakers’ (i.e. the 6th and 7th speakers in my 7.1 set-up), I remain rather non-plussed. I only have a few Atmos Blu-ray discs to listen on them, rather than subscribing to a costly streaming service - Apple etc. I reckon the happiest element of my ‘home cinema’ set-up is my Sony DN1080

I find atmos much better with movies than music so don’t give up on it just yet, a couple of brilliant atmos movies off the top of my head are “Sicario”, “13 hours: the secret soldiers of Benghazi” and the latest Bond “No time to die”

 

[mandrix]

Excuse for repeating myself, but there are just so many misconceptions about Atmos when it comes to what can be done for playback. I'm skipping the soundbars because that's well covered previously.

I don't understand why I hear so much that there isn't any Atmos content. Or not enough (well, OK), or nothing I like (Classical, Rock, Jazz is available + more avant-garde music)
If you count MP4/MKV downloads (such as from IAA) I have over 100 titles in Atmos. Actually there are BD's that are released with BOTH Atmos and Auro3D!

As for playback on the pc, there is a way to do it, I know, because I do it every day. All you need is an HDMI cable from the motherboard or graphics card to your Atmos capable AVR. Free VLC or paid PowerDVD set to bitstream and you got it.

Don't have an Atmos capable AVR? No problem! Before I bought my Onkyo TX-RZ50 last year, I was using two AVR's to produce 7.1.4. Although it's definitely done in the Mac world as well, I only know details of how to do it in the pc world. The only catch is you must have the Dolby Reference Player as your software playback device, and you must "strip out" the .mlp track from your source. None of this rocket science, just a few extra steps. Also you likely won't get video, but you will get the Atmos sound, the lossless as you would find on a BD or an IAA download, and/or the DD+ lossy if you are grabbing streaming Atmos off one of the providers. The DRP will convert to pcm with all Atmos information decoded.

There is a free utility for Windows called ASIO4ALL that can be used to "tie" the two AVR's together sound-wise so they function as one.
Multichannel capable AVR's, used, can be picked up on EvilBay or other places like yard sales, etc. for reasonable prices. Get creative. When buying two for Atmos, at least one must be HDMI capable. Both if possible but the second one can be analog input. Neither needs be more than 5.1 capable. In fact the "second" AVR doesn't have to be an AVR, neither one really, as long as the primary input/amplifying devices have HDMI. (easiest) or one HDMI and one analog in (with an HDMI extractor, such as the Monoprice Blackbird 7.1)

I won't go into further detail here, and the idea was not mine, but it works. It works, people.

If you are capable of mounting speakers either on the ceiling or on the walls (I have both) the overhead speakers and/or side surround speakers do NOT have to break the bank. Of course I recommend the 5.0 aspect be as good as you can reasonably afford.

My 4 overheads are merely Polk Monitors (30 series I think) I bought quite some time ago. At the time I think they were roughly $200/pair, although that particular model is no longer made there are plenty of options.

How long will Atmos as it exists today, be around? Who knows? I'm just loading up on what I can get now. 20 years from now I likely won't be around anyway.
Dolby, well I have had my gripes about them. But one thing they absolutely got right, was acquiring MLP (Meridian Lossless Packing) from Meridian and enhancing it beyond 5.1 to encompass more channels.

 

[MidiMagic]

So far I have seen two Atmos decoding devices (both soundbars) and NO programs.

 

[mandrix]

So far I have seen two Atmos decoding devices (both soundbars) and NO programs.

The Dolby Reference Player is all I know of, software wise, that will decode Atmos. And it will play MP4 DD+ with video, but it's very particular about what it will play.
So you can't just rip a BD and watch any video content, but the mlp can be stripped out and played/decoded with the DRP.
I'm guessing there are heavy licensing fees from Dolby, could be one reason we're not seeing any other software programs. Better all around with an AVR doing the decoding and bitstreaming to it via HDMI. Hopefully someone like PowerDVD will enable Atmos decoding allowing to bypass an AVR entirely. Not here yet though, AFAIK.

 

[Franck]

I started a little survey of Apple Music users on Reddit:

 

[mandrix]

I started a little survey of Apple Music users on Reddit:

I put in my two cents worth. Although I'm not an Apple Music user. lol. Sure to get some sort of negative comment, such is Reddit.

 

[himey]

I started a little survey of Apple Music users on Reddit:

The comments are mostly positive.

 

[Daniel]

The Dolby Reference Player is all I know of, software wise, that will decode Atmos. And it will play MP4 DD+ with video, but it's very particular about what it will play.
So you can't just rip a BD and watch any video content, but the mlp can be stripped out and played/decoded with the DRP.
I'm guessing there are heavy licensing fees from Dolby, could be one reason we're not seeing any other software programs. Better all around with an AVR doing the decoding and bitstreaming to it via HDMI. Hopefully someone like PowerDVD will enable Atmos decoding allowing to bypass an AVR entirely. Not here yet though, AFAIK.

Yes, that DRP it's all that's out there and it's not available to the general public. AND you would have to manipulate the files quite some to get it to play from what I read online, etc, etc. Dolby's model is restrictive, pure "chokepoint capitalism", like Benn Jordan says in the video posted above. A different model, open source that would scale perfectly to whatever system it plays (quad, stereo, 16 channel, 30 channel, whatever) would probably pick up in time if the content is there and if Google is behind it. The manufacturers hate paying fees to Dolby and they'd be excited to adopt a free version of spatial, with a solid standard. This multiplicity of standards in existence now is just ridiculous.
If you use computer playback, the software could do ALL and much more than what an AVR is doing. It could also transmit the audio through USB audio, PCI-E, etc, without the restriction to HDMI. What we have as options today for stereo would be there for spatial and that could change things!