Got shipped msg today too
King Crimson in 5.1?!
- Thread starter elroy
- Start date
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neil wilkes
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
There are 2 channels per soundtrack - this does not necessarily mean it is in stereo, and it sounded very monophonic to me. I left it as 2-channel because that is what was on the Betacam tape. I had this transferred by our very own Patrick Cleasby to 10-bit uncompressed blackmagic with the audio at 24-bits. There were 2 soundtracks, full scale & broadcast. The full scale version is what is on the DVDA.
I did very little to the transferred audio except minor adjustments.
Dynamic range aside, there are other valid reasons to use 24-bit encoding here. 16 bit has a possible range of 65,536 possible values for each sample it uses - go to 24 bits and the possible values increase to 16,777,216.
Clearly, this is far more capable than 16-bits and is much, much more accurate.
roundhousequad
400 Club - QQ All-Star
toasted shed sent mine out oct 1
theCharm
Member
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2009
- Messages
- 22
Got my disk yesterday... postage says "Royal Mail" but quite possibly it was delivered by the Royal Air Force. Sometimes stuff shipped from the same zip code takes longer!
The 5.1 mix absolutely blows my mind, and a few of my neighbo(u)rs, too. Certainly a showcase disk, to be used for conversion of those remaining stereo-holdouts. Remarkable amount of noise from just 3 people. No, I know there's 5 guest musician on this one, but even the "pure" trio versions of Red and Fallen Angel sound tight and full.
I must say the MC brings out principally new dimensions in the music. Not just subtlety. All along in stereo, Red and Starless were my favorite tracks on this album. But now I see the Fallen Angel in a totally new "light", and it's a new #1 in my chart.
Kudos to Steve Wilson and Neil Wilkes for the fantastic work! Very aggressive mix, very playful. Just in my personal taste -- but I do think that using surrounds for ambiance only is a waste of 2 perfectly good speakers. Bruford's drumming particularly shines, 2 channels is just not enough for his work.
I am so looking forward to the rest of the catalog. Was only waiting for this audition to decide on the Court: you know, 2 disk vs THE BOX... no doubt anymore, box's ordered. The amount of care that went into this production reflects my love of this music, that's the way it should be done.
I'm just curious, what the others are waiting for? Why wouldn't The Beatles, Pink Floyd, Yes, Jethro Tull -- to start off a list, release their back catalog in 5.1 and make a few pennies, if not to please loyal fans and perhaps make a few new ones? I can't believe these releases are a net loss financially, though I'd like to know if anyone's got the actual numbers. Anyhow, I doubt Robert Fripp would lose money on this round, which is what -- the 5th on just the digital media? Good for him, the musical career and contribution to the world such as Crims must be rewarded.
The 5.1 mix absolutely blows my mind, and a few of my neighbo(u)rs, too. Certainly a showcase disk, to be used for conversion of those remaining stereo-holdouts. Remarkable amount of noise from just 3 people. No, I know there's 5 guest musician on this one, but even the "pure" trio versions of Red and Fallen Angel sound tight and full.
I must say the MC brings out principally new dimensions in the music. Not just subtlety. All along in stereo, Red and Starless were my favorite tracks on this album. But now I see the Fallen Angel in a totally new "light", and it's a new #1 in my chart.
Kudos to Steve Wilson and Neil Wilkes for the fantastic work! Very aggressive mix, very playful. Just in my personal taste -- but I do think that using surrounds for ambiance only is a waste of 2 perfectly good speakers. Bruford's drumming particularly shines, 2 channels is just not enough for his work.
I am so looking forward to the rest of the catalog. Was only waiting for this audition to decide on the Court: you know, 2 disk vs THE BOX... no doubt anymore, box's ordered. The amount of care that went into this production reflects my love of this music, that's the way it should be done.
I'm just curious, what the others are waiting for? Why wouldn't The Beatles, Pink Floyd, Yes, Jethro Tull -- to start off a list, release their back catalog in 5.1 and make a few pennies, if not to please loyal fans and perhaps make a few new ones? I can't believe these releases are a net loss financially, though I'd like to know if anyone's got the actual numbers. Anyhow, I doubt Robert Fripp would lose money on this round, which is what -- the 5th on just the digital media? Good for him, the musical career and contribution to the world such as Crims must be rewarded.
BananaSlug
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
Got mine today! Never heard this record before, unfortunately I have a bad cold and blocked ears. Packaging is nice though.
got mine today excellent so far its all new to me as well
simonwagstaff
Active Member
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2008
- Messages
- 93
Sorry, I am an old fart. No disrespect meant for anybody. How could you not be familiar with Red and be a King Crimson fan? From my rocking chair Red is the lamest of the REAL King Crimson albums, Court, Lark's Tongues, Starless, Islands (well Wake also) are the REAL King Crimson. Beat and Three of a Perfect Pair etc. a whole new band. NEW stuff....
And all that Thrak, and Thrakattack and Thrackattackathrakatacka...
who are those guys?
Put my body in the boat, set it on fire and push me off into the sea....
That all being said, I truly believe that King Crimson is what resides inside the coporeal body of Robert Fripp, and what he says, goes. it is a being and a force greater than any one person. I believe that King Crimson is second only to the Grateful Dead for their ability to tap into the cosmic stream, and pull music, wriggling like an eel, out of the water to be presented at out feet as a musical offering...
but to have never heard Red? Oh, my friends, I envy you in a way. To be able to hear Lark's Tongues for the first time...
Prepare yourselves well...
And all that Thrak, and Thrakattack and Thrackattackathrakatacka...
who are those guys?
Put my body in the boat, set it on fire and push me off into the sea....
That all being said, I truly believe that King Crimson is what resides inside the coporeal body of Robert Fripp, and what he says, goes. it is a being and a force greater than any one person. I believe that King Crimson is second only to the Grateful Dead for their ability to tap into the cosmic stream, and pull music, wriggling like an eel, out of the water to be presented at out feet as a musical offering...
but to have never heard Red? Oh, my friends, I envy you in a way. To be able to hear Lark's Tongues for the first time...
Prepare yourselves well...
Opinions are like....
Lame?
Starless unto itself (33% of the album running time) is very true to the original intentions of KC; it is a reunion of sorts (Ian McDonald, Mel Wallace, et al), provides strong horn arrangements, several movements and is also one of the strongest tunes lyrically and vocally in the entire Crim catalog.
Maybe you don't care for the other tracks on Red but give credit where it's due! To denegrate this classic track is to generate disbelief.
That's okay, you've got Lizard. Meh.
Lame?
Starless unto itself (33% of the album running time) is very true to the original intentions of KC; it is a reunion of sorts (Ian McDonald, Mel Wallace, et al), provides strong horn arrangements, several movements and is also one of the strongest tunes lyrically and vocally in the entire Crim catalog.
Maybe you don't care for the other tracks on Red but give credit where it's due! To denegrate this classic track is to generate disbelief.
That's okay, you've got Lizard. Meh.
What were the original intentions of King Crimson? There is no way around the fact that "Take A Pebble" and some of the Mellotron flourishes throughout CRIMSON KING seem to borrow from the Moody Blues. If so, so what? Robert Fripp was the constant, but KC was a band always searching beyond the confines of rock, jazz, or anything else worked with over the years. I always thought they seemed to thrive on a bit of improv, while the end product would still sound very meticulous and ocontrolled. Not always my cup of java, but it never occurred to me that they were playing for anyone but themselves. With what one considers prog, how could any act do anything else? And they're still around, in whatever grouping, to play on. Bring it on....
ED
ED
simonwagstaff
Active Member
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2008
- Messages
- 93
I will take Lizard, thank you very much. I am very happy it is in the first batch.
Of all the Crimson albums I could reach for, Red is the last one.
Yep, it is all opinion. I spent too much time in a college dorm room doing who knows what with god knows who, huddled around a little stereo, oh yes, I know those Advents, listening to the likes of Islands and Court and Lark's Tongues. Just my opinion, Red doesn't hold up, a try for the past but a sign of the future.
Of all the Crimson albums I could reach for, Red is the last one.
Yep, it is all opinion. I spent too much time in a college dorm room doing who knows what with god knows who, huddled around a little stereo, oh yes, I know those Advents, listening to the likes of Islands and Court and Lark's Tongues. Just my opinion, Red doesn't hold up, a try for the past but a sign of the future.
I offered up Starless here because there seemed to be an appreciation only for the early elements, but no sale. We like what we like.
By definition, a progressive band will change over time and KC surely did that. Not all phases or output are going to be appreciated.
Not sure how Take A Pebble (ELP) fits here, perhaps be Lake's post Crimson agenda is seen as similar vein.
Much as I enjoy Moody Blues, I still chuckle about Tony Clarke checking out KC as an opener for MB and realizing the Crim "were just too strong".
By definition, a progressive band will change over time and KC surely did that. Not all phases or output are going to be appreciated.
Not sure how Take A Pebble (ELP) fits here, perhaps be Lake's post Crimson agenda is seen as similar vein.
Much as I enjoy Moody Blues, I still chuckle about Tony Clarke checking out KC as an opener for MB and realizing the Crim "were just too strong".
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jefe1
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Mine came yesterday!!
Got to check out the 5.1 when I got home but couldn't listen to it loud cause it was late
Listened to the stereo cd on the way to work this morning.
To put this in perspective I bought Red when it originally came out and still have the record. Bought it and Yes Relayer the same day. I had seen Crimson on tour the year before, Strawbs opened for them, what a great concert!
I was and am a Strawbs fan, but Crimson completely blew me away, they were so good live.
Anyways I have always liked Red especially Fallen Angel and Starless but just cannot abide Providence, I always skip it.
But let me actually talk about the DVDA......
I am very happy with the quality and care that went into it.I like the mix and like that I can isolate Wettons vocals in the center speaker, just for kicks I was very impressed with the sound quality of the mono French TV footage it is very listenable and good performances. I'm looking forward to going home today and playing it LOUD plus listening to the extra tracks.
I am ordering Lizard and court and will get Starless and Bible Black when it is released. I never much liked In the Wake of Poseiden and considered Islands a little Poppy but I will probably go for those and reevaluate.....
So
Got to check out the 5.1 when I got home but couldn't listen to it loud cause it was late
Listened to the stereo cd on the way to work this morning.
To put this in perspective I bought Red when it originally came out and still have the record. Bought it and Yes Relayer the same day. I had seen Crimson on tour the year before, Strawbs opened for them, what a great concert!
I was and am a Strawbs fan, but Crimson completely blew me away, they were so good live.
Anyways I have always liked Red especially Fallen Angel and Starless but just cannot abide Providence, I always skip it.
But let me actually talk about the DVDA......
I am very happy with the quality and care that went into it.I like the mix and like that I can isolate Wettons vocals in the center speaker, just for kicks
I was very impressed with the sound quality of the mono French TV footage it is very listenable and good performances. I'm looking forward to going home today and playing it LOUD plus listening to the extra tracks.I am ordering Lizard and court and will get Starless and Bible Black when it is released. I never much liked In the Wake of Poseiden and considered Islands a little Poppy but I will probably go for those and reevaluate.....
So
Where did you see Strawbs open for Crimson? We saw this in L.A. (Shrine Auditorium 6/19/74) ; got there early and we sat on the back dock as the doors were wide open. Strawbs keyboardist John Hawkin and a young lady got out of a 1967 Firebird and said a cheery hello as they walked in the back door.
Would love to have Hero & Heroine + Ghosts in 5.1 some day...
Would love to have Hero & Heroine + Ghosts in 5.1 some day...
Whooo...
Australia Post delivered my copy of 'Red' (in Sydney) by registered mail and courier early today (7th Oct) from Burning Shed. Had to sign. The postal driver had troubling manoeuvring his Toyota Hi Ace out of the driveway and ended up in all sorts of trouble but I digress...
It was almost as exciting as picking up 'Islands' from a do it yourself importer at a service station in Lane Cove in early 1972.
This has long been one of my all time bands. The first four albums were my favourites but I came to love this album after Red and Starless appeared on 'A Young Persons Guide to King Crimson' in 1976. 'Lizard' and 'Islands' have long been the most regularly played as they tended to upset parents, siblings, girlfriends, wife and children less than the others and are still brimming with originality. I came to appreciate this (72-74) version of King Crimson more after 'The NightWatch' was released in the late nineties.
The packaging is excellent and worthy of the art that this album is. The content seems ageless and this version of King Crimson has not dated like many other pieces from the same period. The love and respect with which this 40th anniversary edition of 'Red' has been produced is a wonder. It is a privilege to receive it. Its an even greater privilege to receive it while I can still hear....
Played the DVD-A Surround Version on my outside sound system very loud just as a southerly came up. The sound is incredible. There is much going on but it is crystal clear. My main comment is that the muddiness of the original recording appears to be gone. I particularly enjoyed the clarity and depth of John Wetton's voice on 'Fallen Angel and 'Starless'. The mix on 'Providence' was such I almost feel I haven't heard it before. It rained a little towards the end of 'Starless' but it didn't subtract from the exquisite mix.
The surround extras are excellent. The video is compelling if only to see how young the band were and how such a small group of players could make all that intricate noise with so few instruments. Now if someone had video of this quality of 'USA'.
This is a reference DVD-A and is going to be high on the rotation list over the summer. I might even have to buy one of those new Universal Oppo BluRay players and a new amp just to maximise the experience. The neighbours are going to have to move. Can you wear these things out? I had better order another one (or three)....
Congratulations to everyone involved in the production of this disc including some of the members of this forum. You should be proud. This is how to do it right.
In the meantime even more avidly waiting for ITCOTCK and Lizard...
Australia Post delivered my copy of 'Red' (in Sydney) by registered mail and courier early today (7th Oct) from Burning Shed. Had to sign. The postal driver had troubling manoeuvring his Toyota Hi Ace out of the driveway and ended up in all sorts of trouble but I digress...
It was almost as exciting as picking up 'Islands' from a do it yourself importer at a service station in Lane Cove in early 1972.
This has long been one of my all time bands. The first four albums were my favourites but I came to love this album after Red and Starless appeared on 'A Young Persons Guide to King Crimson' in 1976. 'Lizard' and 'Islands' have long been the most regularly played as they tended to upset parents, siblings, girlfriends, wife and children less than the others and are still brimming with originality. I came to appreciate this (72-74) version of King Crimson more after 'The NightWatch' was released in the late nineties.
The packaging is excellent and worthy of the art that this album is. The content seems ageless and this version of King Crimson has not dated like many other pieces from the same period. The love and respect with which this 40th anniversary edition of 'Red' has been produced is a wonder. It is a privilege to receive it. Its an even greater privilege to receive it while I can still hear....
Played the DVD-A Surround Version on my outside sound system very loud just as a southerly came up. The sound is incredible. There is much going on but it is crystal clear. My main comment is that the muddiness of the original recording appears to be gone. I particularly enjoyed the clarity and depth of John Wetton's voice on 'Fallen Angel and 'Starless'. The mix on 'Providence' was such I almost feel I haven't heard it before. It rained a little towards the end of 'Starless' but it didn't subtract from the exquisite mix.
The surround extras are excellent. The video is compelling if only to see how young the band were and how such a small group of players could make all that intricate noise with so few instruments. Now if someone had video of this quality of 'USA'.
This is a reference DVD-A and is going to be high on the rotation list over the summer. I might even have to buy one of those new Universal Oppo BluRay players and a new amp just to maximise the experience. The neighbours are going to have to move. Can you wear these things out? I had better order another one (or three)....
Congratulations to everyone involved in the production of this disc including some of the members of this forum. You should be proud. This is how to do it right.
In the meantime even more avidly waiting for ITCOTCK and Lizard...
Okay, that's it! I've had it! I wasn't going to order "Red" as it is not my fav KC but reading about how great it sounds has pushed me over the edge. Just went to BS and ordered it. I guess I'm a goner now. I will likely order all of them as they become available.
Heck, I have all 3 ordered now. Never heard Lizard.
jefe1
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Yea, but have you ordered extra copies for your Mother?
jefe1
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Hi Neil,
I notice there is a high resolution stereo version of Red the trio version but not one in surround. Is there reason it wasn't included? Fallen Angel Trio appears in both high res stereo and 5.1 and it sounds great.
Thank you for the work you put into this, the sound is phenomenal and I am really enjoying Red.
Heck I'm even listening to Providence now!
Jeff
I notice there is a high resolution stereo version of Red the trio version but not one in surround. Is there reason it wasn't included? Fallen Angel Trio appears in both high res stereo and 5.1 and it sounds great.
Thank you for the work you put into this, the sound is phenomenal and I am really enjoying Red.
Heck I'm even listening to Providence now!
Jeff
