Marillion "Fugazi" (Deluxe Edition out in September 2021!)

[artwwweb]

Looking at recent comments on the Steve Hoffman site, and they’re really ripping on this. Personally, I think the 5:1 mix sounds great. I listened to half the Montreal concert and the band was killing it. On the Hoffman site they are mulling over the numbers.

I get a bit of tinnitus so find some records difficult to listen to. I think it tends to be heavily compressed albums, as you'd expect. I listened to this fine last night, so it never occurred to me that it was overly compressed.

I see there are also complaints about differences in the mixes. I have sympathy with someone who knows and loves an original mix so well, but again, it sounded great to me. And interestingly, I see from the main documentary that the band were not happy with the original mix even at the time. (They didn't all participate in the mixes and wanted to remix but EMI said, no, this will have to do.) So it's possible that there are changes that have been made on purpose. (Though I would have expected the Steven Wilson approach of including the original mix as well if they had knowingly changed it.)

 

[mch007]

I listened to it twice (DTS Master HD both times), agree with others that this is much more surroundy than Script...Sounded Punchy too...

 

[Muppet69]

I listened to it twice (DTS Master HD both times), agree with others that this is much more surroundy than Script...Sounded Punchy too...

And Judy too I hope!

 

[splinter7]

I see there are also complaints about differences in the mixes. I have sympathy with someone who knows and loves an original mix

On my first pass, I wasn’t paying 100% attention as I was reading the liner notes but the only change that significantly caused me to say “what the?” was at the very end of the title cut Fugazi.

Maybe because I finished reading by then but I think that it is really the only one that blatantly deviates from the original.

Maybe Assassing was a tad bit different but there has already been a slightly different alternate cut out there for decades so that didn’t register as much.

 

[Neil Palfreyman]

The surround mix is, imho, pretty good overall. But it's a tragedy that the dynamic range has been completely squashed by the mastering. Assassing is painful to listen to at volume

 

[splinter7]

I have to agree with Neil. The more aggressive songs are harsh on the ears.

 

[James Jay]

Looking at recent comments on the Steve Hoffman site, and they’re really ripping on this. Personally, I think the 5:1 mix sounds great. I listened to half the Montreal concert and the band was killing it. On the Hoffman site they are mulling over the numbers.

It’s the same two guys on the SHF who don’t like the dr numbers on the previously released Marillion special editions. I don’t agree with them that dr9 is brickwalled.
They state that they don’t listen to 5.1 surround so I don’t pay too much attention to them since I am mostly interested in surround mixes.

 

[Marplot]

People with no power/control in their own lives lash out at things to feel empowered. The best advice I can offer is to find someone who has the same general feelings on musical genre, mixing and production and check out what they think. Reading stuff by some knuckleheads with an axe to grind is time that could be better spent listening to something you enjoy.

 

[riskylogic]

My main problem is that the center channel which features most Fish vocals and also Trewavas seems to pegged at a much lower volume than it should be. Especially annoying on "Assassing" where the backing vocals in the rears are louder than Fish's vocals that I previously been led to believe should dominate the whole song. I fired up Audacity and created a new version with all four corners lowered by 3 dB, leaving the both center and LFE alone. I think it sounds much better - more Fish and more bass. I call it the submerged version.

 

[edisonbaggins]

I've seen people online claiming this is Andy and Avril's best 5.1 mix yet. But folks here claiming there are issues...
Can anyone post wav forms or some such?
Is this a good 5.1 mix or not?!

 

[srbjab]

Although Fugazi has never been my favorite Fish era Marillion album, I think Bradfield and Macintosh have delivered one of their better surround mixes, one that generally elevates a mixed bag of songs. The mix is fairly aggressive, frequently moving keyboard lines, lead guitar, and Fish's theatrical backing vocals (including whispers, screams and spoken words) into the surrounds. This results in a huge, immersive soundstage that reveals details previously obscured in the original mix. Unfortunately it's held back somewhat by an overly zippy high end and a fairly harsh overall sound quality that can be fatiguing at higher volume. I'm also not a fan of how the fadeout for Fugazi was changed. I think listeners who love the album will be very pleased, and others will probably be able to appreciate it more. I found the documentary material more interesting than usual with the band members very candidly (and sometimes bluntly) expressing disappointment with the album's quality and recalling the very unpleasant experience writing, recording and mixing it. I think all of their criticisms are clearly audible on the album which, despite a couple of good songs and "bits", remains choppy and less satisfying than the other studio albums with Fish. Ironically, the best sounding of the Fish Marillion reissues - Script and Misplaced Childhood - have the least aggressive surround mixes. I'll probably be voting a 7 or 8 just for the mix, but will need to spin it a few more times.

 

[Albert Dagger]

I've seen people online claiming this is Andy and Avril's best 5.1 mix yet. But folks here claiming there are issues...
Can anyone post wav forms or some such?
Is this a good 5.1 mix or not?!

I can't comment on the 5.1, because I am waiting for my copy to arrive from the UK. However, I have listened to the stereo remix a couple of times on Tidal.

In short, the way they have approached the remix is very similar to Script, and the same applies to mastering. The remix is much louder than my old CD. I had to lower the remix by 8 to 10db on average to level-match the original mix. That's an artistic choice I think, because they have reduced quite a lot the impact of the drums and therefore the overall dynamics. Similarly to Script, fidelity is great, tonality is spot on. However, I am really missing those punchy drums.

This guy on SHF highlights some changes in the remix he didn't like:
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/marillion-fugazi-deluxe-sets.1096554/page-13#post-27757016
I feel that removing the silence after the intro of Fugazi is a good change. I don't mind the missing fade out. But I don't like the end of She Chameleon with "chameleon" placed on a different bar. Also, I don't like the intro of assassin missing Fish shouting "shock".

If you are going to interview Avril again, perhaps you can ask her about the changes and the way they have rebalanced the instruments in the remix.

 

[Juggsnelson]

Still waiting on my shipping notice from Fish....anyone else?

 

[Muppet69]

Still waiting for mine. It’s now been “preparing for shipment” for 3 effing days from Amagonnatakemysweettimepostingthisbecaushesgettingfreeshippingandonlywaithedthreemonthszon.ca

 

[jefe1]

Mine just arrived today from DD
I have no history with this album. Listened to it with the extra tracks. Liked what I heard. Does not grab me like Misplaced Childhood does which I now frequently listen to. I will listen to this more and see if it grows on me.

 

[JulesRules]

It’s the same two guys on the SHF who don’t like the dr numbers on the previously released Marillion special editions. I don’t agree with them that dr9 is brickwalled.
They state that they don’t listen to 5.1 surround so I don’t pay too much attention to them since I am mostly interested in surround mixes.

People with no power/control in their own lives lash out at things to feel empowered. The best advice I can offer is to find someone who has the same general feelings on musical genre, mixing and production and check out what they think. Reading stuff by some knuckleheads with an axe to grind is time that could be better spent listening to something you enjoy.

Even if I'm not sure I'm one of "those two guys" (I disagreed with the most active poster on this issue that the remaster of MC was bad in any way, but agreed that Bradfield/Mackintosh have been putting much more compression on their mixes than Wilson and Hunter, which kept me from buying both Script and Fugazi because I didn't enjoy their Clutching mix), I formally ask you to cease your generalizations, false statements (you totally ignored Sordel's detailed critique of the 5.1, now linked here, in an effort to make the entire forum look like lunatics) and drive-by insults. You're totally out of your lane. This is not a good look for this forum and considering I was already ripped to shreds on a previous thread and have wisely stayed out of the discussion here so far, I really wonder who's got an axe to grind when some people simply want to express their opinion. Especially when said opinion is now also getting traction by several posters on this thread.

 

[James Jay]

Even if I'm not sure I'm one of "those two guys" (I disagreed with the most active poster on this issue that the remaster of MC was bad in any way, but agreed that Bradfield/Mackintosh have been putting much more compression on their mixes than Wilson and Hunter, which kept me from buying both Script and Fugazi because I didn't enjoy their Clutching mix), I formally ask you to cease your generalizations, false statements (you totally ignored Sordel's detailed critique of the 5.1, now linked here, in an effort to make the entire forum look like lunatics) and drive-by insults. You're totally out of your lane. This is not a good look for this forum and considering I was already ripped to shreds on a previous thread and have wisely stayed out of the discussion here so far, I really wonder who's got an axe to grind when some people simply want to express their opinion. Especially when said opinion is now also getting traction by several posters on this thread.

If you are one of the ”two guys” you stated you didn’t listen to 5.1 surround. I don‘t believe that dr9 was brickwalled and it seems you are the one with an axe to grind. No one “ripped you to shreds” or stopped you from stating your opinion. I said I just ignored you. You are exaggerating quite a lot.

 

[DuncanS]

Still waiting for mine. It’s now been “preparing for shipment” for 3 effing days from Amagonnatakemysweettimepostingthisbecaushesgettingfreeshippingandonlywaithedthreemonthszon.ca

I know that feeling, its the if I piss him off enough he'll cough up for Prime, and every time you order they tell you sign up for Prime you're missing out. Unfortunately for amazon I don't think I am!

 

[sjcorne]

I just got my copy and listened to the first two tracks, which are among my favorites from the Fish era. I kind of agree with all the comments - positive and negative - that have been made in this thread thus far. The 5.1 mix is very active with lots of isolated elements in the rear channels, but the overall balance and tonality leave something to be desired. Some initial thoughts:

"Assassing" - the opening used to build to a huge crescendo, but now it just kinda lays there - the volume barely changes. The toms moving around in the rears sounds super cool though. Fish's "shock!" being barely audible feels like a mixing error. But the opening guitar riff is in the rears! The vocals are way too low and sound kind of 'hollow' on my system - upping the center channel 3 dB as @riskylogic suggested helps, but it doesn't entirely fix the problem. The keyboard solo at around 3:50 is crazy loud! Almost made me jump out of my seat.

"Punch and Judy" - Lead guitar once again in the rears! I like how Fish's voice hops back-and-forth between the center and rear speakers (though the center needs a +3 dB boost to match the level in the rears). It's also cool how they brought out the telegraph sound effect. The drums seem kind of subdued, though the shrill high-end of the original mix is mostly gone.

 

[Marplot]

I formally ask you to cease your generalizations, false statements (you totally ignored Sordel's detailed critique of the 5.1, now linked here, in an effort to make the entire forum look like lunatics) and drive-by insults. You're totally out of your lane.

That is quaint. So my generalization about how people are in forums on the internet, made about people's observation on comments on a different forum cause you to come here and take umbrage? Props to you for standing up for the perceived slight to your honor but my generalization remains intact. Just go anywhere and see how horrible we are to each other online compared to in person.