Matrix Quad CD's

[Simon A]

The US Machine Head was only available in CD-4 (and Q4, Q8)

The UK Machine Head was only available in SQ (and Q8)





Hope this clarifies things.

So this means there are two dedicated Quad mixes and one 5.1 mix, correct?

 

[Philip Spinner]

So this means there are two dedicated Quad mixes and one 5.1 mix, correct?

Correct.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

So this means there are two dedicated Quad mixes and one 5.1 mix, correct?

Yes indeed.

Strange to see SQ on a WARNER BROS disc, but it is 2016 and the quad format wars are over....long over ! ☆

Who knows ,we may see Warners Chicago's cds in SQ yet....or (miracles) like Paul Simon in WB SQ ? The possibilities are there as they own the discrete Q4 masters and the 2ch SQ encodes.




☆ I was surprised when both EMI and WB 30th anniversary "Machine Head" discs contained two SQ encoded tracks on that cd rather than a downmix from Q4 tape.

 

[Simon A]

Yes indeed.

Strange to see SQ on a WARNER BROS disc, but it is 2016 and the quad format wars are over....long over ! ☆

Who knows ,we may see Warners Chicago's cds in SQ yet....or (miracles) like Paul Simon in WB SQ ? The possibilities are there as they own the discrete Q4 masters and the 2ch SQ encodes.

If only Warner would give us the Black Sabbath Quads.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

If only Warner would give us the Black Sabbath Quads.

Ok, but put me down for the 4 (or 5) DOOBIE BROTHERS in a QUADRADISC BOX, all 4 Quad Doobies that I know of are exceptional Quad mixes.

 

[MidiMagic]

To test if it is QS encoded, you need to record it in MONO .Sansui's QS is not mono-compatible.There would likely be centre channel info either missing or fading out namely "vocals". Most quad recordings tend to centre vocals in front channels.
The BBC rejected the use of QS for this very reason, as back in the 70's most fm listener's owned mono radios, I think it was like 80-90% of their listeners.
That is why they came up with their own matrix quad system H and later HJ , both "mono compatible".

This is not true.

It would be things encoded in the center back that disappear in mono play. This happens in both QS and SQ. In fact, almost all matrix systems (including Dolby Surround) have the center back encoded so it disappears in mono play. Only BMX, G, H, HJ, and UHJ (Ambisonic) do not do this.

Things encoded in the front center in both QS and SQ are louder than other parts in mono then they are in stereo or matrix playback.

When things disappear from the center front is if you are playing them in Pro Logic, you don't have a center speaker, and the speaker mode is set wrong in your decoder.

Maybe it was background vocals that disappeared in mono play. Those are often mixed in LB and RB.

H gets rid of the center front and center back problems but puts phasiness in stereo playback instead.

HJ and UHJ mostly remove the phasiness problem, but the center front is louder in mono again.

 

[MidiMagic]

Ten Years After-A Space In Time. SQ on the remastered cd.

I spent a lot of time thinking about this one before I purchased it.The SQ matrix encode was "remixed for stereo????".What?

Impossible to remove the matrix encode! You can however screw it up, and that's what they did.SQ is intact, but somehow they did (very bizarrely I must say) perform the same mistake as was done on the discreet dvd.Mainly that "Alvin Lee's" vocals are in the REAR CHANNELS!!

I can think of several possibilities here:

1. They just put that language on the CD so people would not think they had to have a decoder to play it.

2. They just copied the SQ mix to the CD unchanged.

3. They used tricks in the mastering to remove out-of-phase material. This changes encoded positions.

4. They played it through an SQ decoder and mixed the LF and LB channels into the L track and mixed the RF and RB into the R track. This messes up the encoding. It also changes levels of individual parts.

5. They used digital delay on the decoded back channels, mixing them into the undelayed front channels. This also messes up the encoding. This can put a vocal into the back.

6. They used the original master tape for the Q8 release.

 

[MidiMagic]

it's only mean the digital processing, usually remastering of the sound after it been converted from analog to digital but without cardinal changes to original mix.
A - analog source
D - digital processing
D - digital form of distribution

The middle D could mean either a new digital mix from the multitrack or digital remastering of the original encoded mix.

But mastering an encoded mix can do things to the encoding.

 

[JediJoker]

it's only mean the digital processing, usually remastering of the sound after it been converted from analog to digital but without cardinal changes to original mix.
A - analog source
D - digital processing
D - digital form of distribution

The middle D could mean either a new digital mix from the multitrack or digital remastering of the original encoded mix.

You are misinterpreting the SPARS code. The three letters are for:

- Recording
- Mixing
- Mastering

So, your "ADD" example was an analog recording (tracked to analog tape), digital mix (mixed on a digital console or in a DAW after transfer), and digital master (of necessity for a digital end product). SPARS codes are notoriously inaccurate, however.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

I can think of several possibilities here:

1. They just put that language on the CD so people would not think they had to have a decoder to play it.

2. They just copied the SQ mix to the CD unchanged.

3. They used tricks in the mastering to remove out-of-phase material. This changes encoded positions.

4. They played it through an SQ decoder and mixed the LF and LB channels into the L track and mixed the RF and RB into the R track. This messes up the encoding. It also changes levels of individual parts.

5. They used digital delay on the decoded back channels, mixing them into the undelayed front channels. This also messes up the encoding. This can put a vocal into the back.

6. They used the original master tape for the Q8 release.

I think I have finally come to the realization that the notes on encode are indeed a typo.

And the vocals in the rears are a result of a mixdown from the discrete master which was in reverse . It makes the most sense to me.
it kinda makes this disc a happy coincidence in quad albeit reversed channels of course .

 

[fizzywiggs41]

This is not true.

It would be things encoded in the center back that disappear in mono play. This happens in both QS and SQ. In fact, almost all matrix systems (including Dolby Surround) have the center back encoded so it disappears in mono play. Only BMX, G, H, HJ, and UHJ (Ambisonic) do not do this.

Things encoded in the front center in both QS and SQ are louder than other parts in mono then they are in stereo or matrix playback.

When things disappear from the center front is if you are playing them in Pro Logic, you don't have a center speaker, and the speaker mode is set wrong in your decoder.

Maybe it was background vocals that disappeared in mono play. Those are often mixed in LB and RB.

H gets rid of the center front and center back problems but puts phasiness in stereo playback instead.

HJ and UHJ mostly remove the phasiness problem, but the center front is louder in mono again.

And yet the reason "Tom Moulton " had to do a second pressing on "Experience " (sans QS )was because her vocals tended to fade out or disappear when heard in mono , by a large number of her music fans when it was broadcast and heard mostly by people listening in mono.?

 

[humprof]

Can anyone refer me to a post and/or a thread that addresses the following question: is there any easy way of "decoding" a matrix CD if one doesn't have a hardware decoder? I've recently acquired a couple of the Black Jazz titles reissued by Snowdog, and I'd love to hear them in surround. In post #21 of this thread, KansaiQuad mentioned using Switch Soundfile Converter, but I'm not quite sure how that would work. Sorry if I'm a little slow...

 

[John Svensson]

I'm not familiar with any software solutions to your question, but good old Dolby PLII does a reasonable job on placing sound where it is supposed to be with QS matrix discs...somewhere there are threads that state how to best replicate that with the 3 Dolby settings (Panorama, etc....)on your AV receiver. I will hunt for a thread.....

 

[John Svensson]

"Someone years ago wrote a QS-like decoding of DpL2, was
Mode: Music
Panorama: On
Dimension: 3 (range from 0 to 6)
Center Width: n/a"

Here you go, edited from a thread from The Deep State.

 

[humprof]

Thanks for tracking that down, John. Sadly, my new(ish) Marantz NR1607 seems to offer only a plain-vanilla one-size-fits-all "Dolby Surround" setting. I think that setting is supposed to be backwards-compatible for all generations of genuine Dolby encoding, but for these Black Jazz discs it seems to channel an awful lot of info into the center channel and adds noticeable "breathing" and other artifacts in the rears. I'll dig deeper into the setup menus and see if it's possible to fine-tune.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Brand X live in Chicago 78 .

Does anyone know if this is a WXRT SQ QUAD Broadcast ?



https://burningshed.com/brand-x_live-from-chicago_cd?filter_tag=brand x

 

[hwkn]

The Quad broadcast was from 11/16/77 not in 78.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

The Quad broadcast was from 11/16/77 not in 78.

Thanks.

 

[All Ears]

So does that mean that the Brand X timeline cd is encoded?

https://www.amazon.com/Timeline-Brand-X/dp/B00003Q5AI?tag=mfconvert-20

 

[fizzywiggs41]

So does that mean that the Brand X timeline cd is encoded?

https://www.amazon.com/Timeline-Brand-X/dp/B00003Q5AI?tag=mfconvert-20

Good catch . I wonder as well.