Pink Floyd The Wall in 5.1

[key_wiz]

Surely he couldn't have made it (The Final Cut) any worse than it already is Strangely no matter how many times I listen to it (I bought it the day it was released) I still don't like it!

That's because it's not a very good album.

I bought it upon release as well. Didn't like it. Read the 5-star review Rolling Stone gave it at the time and I figured I must be missing something. Kept trying to figure out what it was. Still didn't like it.

Have revisited it a handful of times over the years and nope. Doesn't get better with age. A couple of decent tracks that, even then, aren't as good as the weakest tracks on the previous 5 albums.

All just my opinion, of course.

 

[Bill B]

Surely he couldn't have made it (The Final Cut) any worse than it already is Strangely no matter how many times I listen to it (I bought it the day it was released) I still don't like it!

That's because it's not a very good album.

I bought it upon release as well. Didn't like it. Read the 5-star review Rolling Stone gave it at the time and I figured I must be missing something. Kept trying to figure out what it was. Still didn't like it.

Have revisited it a handful of times over the years and nope. Doesn't get better with age. A couple of decent tracks that, even then, aren't as good as the weakest tracks on the previous 5 albums.

All just my opinion, of course.

I can listen to it once and a while and enjoy it. It certainly is low on my "favorite PF albums list", but there are some decent songs on it. It's main shortcoming is that it is more of a Waters solo effort than a band effort. If I frame it that way, I can say it's my second favorite RW solo album (ATD being number 1).

Here's a question for you both; do you think a 5.1 or Atmos surround mix would help to change your opinion?

 

[key_wiz]

I can listen to it once and a while and enjoy it. It certainly is low on my "favorite PF albums list", but there are some decent songs on it. It's main shortcoming is that it is more of a Waters solo effort than a band effort. If I frame it that way, I can say it's my second favorite RW solo album (ATD being number 1).

Here's a question for you both; do you think a 5.1 or Atmos surround mix would help to change your opinion?

I asked myself that question right after I posted the above.

That has certainly helped me enjoy some albums more I didn't otherwise care much for. "The Endless River" is one I find way too dull in stereo but in surround it holds my interest more. Perhaps a surround mix of TFC would have a similar effect? But I also don't know if there's enough going on to make much difference in surround. And I seriously doubt improve what I think are simply weak songs.

And agreed-- Outside of "Not Now John", it's a Waters album, not a Floyd album. But even that isn't a GREAT track. More importantly, I think the album is serious hurt by a lack of Richard Wright. I didn't realize just how essential he was to the sound of PF until that album came out.

But after we finally get "The Wall" in surround it will really be the only major album of theirs left not issued in the format. ('Meddle' wasn't officially issued surround, of course, but I think most of us have it by now? The stuff before that? I'm just 'meh' on anyway, even though I know many others feel differently) So if they issued it, I'd buy it, just to complete the collection, so to speak, if nothing else.

 

[JulesRules]

The interesting thing, from a surround standpoint, about The Final Cut is the holophonic sound effects recorded with a dummy head...

 

[DrKlahn]

I can listen to it once and a while and enjoy it. It certainly is low on my "favorite PF albums list", but there are some decent songs on it. It's main shortcoming is that it is more of a Waters solo effort than a band effort. If I frame it that way, I can say it's my second favorite RW solo album (ATD being number 1).

Here's a question for you both; do you think a 5.1 or Atmos surround mix would help to change your opinion?

That is about where I'm at. With Gilmour being essentially a session guitarist, no Rick and Nick mostly there for mixing TFC is a Roger solo album.

I would love to have The Wall in Atmos on a Blu Ray, but if I'm being honest The Wall is something I've always felt could have had material trimmed from it and be better for it. It has some fantastic songs, but a lot of relentless melancholy ones that feel redundant to me.

 

[duanerocks2014]

Question? Can we really expect a physical release at this point, considering the ridiculous and childish feud between Roger and David that is only getting worse?

 

[DrKlahn]

Question? Can we really expect a physical release at this point, considering the ridiculous and childish feud between Roger and David that is only getting worse?

Well we did finally get Animals. So, hope springs eternal I guess. I'm sure they could get Guthrie to do it, which would appease Roger (at least on the Engineering side of things). I'm not sure it's being discussed as a project (even though it should). The Wall is the only immersion set I passed on because there was nothing audio wise I didn't already own. It's a shame, since The Wall would be quite something if treated the same as Dark Side's latest remaster.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

When it comes to any surround sound release of The Wall, ideally we need a minimum of three mixes: -
* A surround sound mix of the original tracks from the 1979 (80 min 42 sec) album.
* A surround sound mix of all the audio tracks from the 1982 movie.
* A surround sound mix of the all the available audio tracks into whatever order Mr Waters can agree on!

 

[splinter7]

That's because it's not a very good album.

All just my opinion, of course.

I'll stand up for the Final Cut album. I wholeheartedly agree that it is a Floyd album in name only. Bleak and grim as anything but somehow I was drawn in and it resonated with me and pushed me to more deeply consider what was happening in the world then. I do not listen to it often now but when I do, it is as strong as it was back in 1983. Sadly so many of the lyrics can still be viewed as current today.

The Final Cut's lyrical content and subject matter that were more descriptive, critical, exact, and biting seemed like a natural progression of Roger's lyrical style at the time. Thematically - The title cut's lyrical theme is essentially the same as the mental health & isolationistic themes explored previously in a more "standard rock lyrics" type of way. Prose vs poetry?

I do appreciate though that many find it tough listen.

The one thing I can't figure out is why the band & management let this one garner the Pink Floyd name unless it was just for the money? It seems pretty obvious that everyone but Roger was checked out on working with Roger under the banner of Pink Floyd at the time. While I am more team Gilmour than team Waters, it does publicly appear that Gilmour & Mason were disinterested in the band and brand. Or was that Roger soemhow not budging on their song ideas?

​

 

[DrKlahn]

I'll stand up for the Final Cut album. I wholeheartedly agree that it is a Floyd album in name only. Bleak and grim as anything but somehow I was drawn in and it resonated with me and pushed me to more deeply consider what was happening in the world then. I do not listen to it often now but when I do, it is as strong as it was back in 1983. Sadly so many of the lyrics can still be viewed as current today.

The Final Cut's lyrical content and subject matter that were more descriptive, critical, exact, and biting seemed like a natural progression of Roger's lyrical style at the time. Thematically - The title cut's lyrical theme is essentially the same as the mental health & isolationistic themes explored previously in a more "standard rock lyrics" type of way. Prose vs poetry?

I do appreciate though that many find it tough listen.

The one thing I can't figure out is why the band & management let this one garner the Pink Floyd name unless it was just for the money? It seems pretty obvious that everyone but Roger was checked out on working with Roger under the banner of Pink Floyd at the time. While I am more team Gilmour than team Waters, it does publicly appear that Gilmour & Mason were disinterested in the band and brand. Or was that Roger soemhow not budging on their song ideas?

​

Reading some of the books on the band, my impression was that Nick and David were kind of just going through the motions to appease Roger (Rick was already fired) and figure out what was next. I think they may have had a contractual obligation to do one more album too, but it's been a while since I've read about it. The Wall was the death of collaboration it seems. Roger saying the band was lazy/unengaged and not wanting to contribute. The rest of the band feeling sidelined and pushed out. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. But TFC was basically left over material from The Wall from my understanding and really didn't have any input from other members to begin with.

I don't think anyone would debate that the lyrics and message of TFC aren't intelligent and insightful. For me it's just not all that musically interesting. The Wall suffers a bit from that to me as well, but the tracks that shine elevate it. TFC doesn't really have that to pull me in. I still own it and give it a spin now and then. But I feel like it really spotlights what the rest of the band brought to the table and why Roger really did need their creative spark to make something that is wholly satisfying (at least for me). Which is something that, judging from the snippets I've heard from his Dark Side treatment, he still really has not grasped.

Of course this is all dependent on our own wants from a piece of music. Some would put TFC at the top or near the top of their list. And nothing wrong with that. I may not understand it, but I don't have to.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

The one thing I can't figure out is why the band & management let this one garner the Pink Floyd name unless it was just for the money?

Plus... What was the reason behind Roger Waters fall out with Richard Wright. Who does not feature on The Final Cut?

 

[DrKlahn]

Plus... What was the reason behind Roger Waters fall out with Richard Wright. Who does not feature on The Final Cut?

From what I have read, Waters felt Wright was not contributing and was dead weight. Wright felt essentially bullied and sidelined, which made him withdraw from participating. Wright was then fired prior to touring for The Wall. Ironically because of the expense of The Wall tour and the venues selected Wright was reported to be the only one to make a profit as a session musician on the tour.

Wright was officially welcomed back into the band for the Delicate Sound of Thunder tour and of course The Division Bell and it's tour. He was not officially part of the band for Momentary Lapse of Reason because of the continuing legal disputes (I guess him being back in the band would have caused problems for their case). Though it has come to light recently that he was unofficially involved with that album.

 

[par4ken]

While I'm not a huge Floyd fan, I'm rather surprised at the negative comments about the album. As I recall "The Wall" was almost as big as "Dark Side of the Moon". AFAIK all the other albums went somewhat unnoticed. I'm sure that they were all huge other places like the UK.

Aside from "Money" from Dark Side, I can't recall any other "Pink Floyd" track getting any amount of airtime. The title track "The Wall" was played extensively, I remember it fondly from MTV. I had a friend who had "Animals" and heavily played it. Animals is still my favorite Floyd album, I don't recall ever hearing any of it played on AM or FM radio.

Many people had a copy of "The Wall" in the early eighties. I was not enough of a fan to get my own copy, now if Quad was still a thing I surely would have. Double albums at times can tend to be watered down or too repetitive, perhaps a condensed version would have been be preferable for the critics.

I do understand that often as an artist gains fame, they tend to alienate their biggest fans. I find that true in almost every case, as an artist gains fame the quality of the product diminishes. What attracted you in the first place is replaced by commercial drivel.

 

[Kodaline]

I think what a lot of people are ignoring is that, while the final cut is not necessarily the greatest pink floyd album, it's better than the best work of many lesser bands. It's not a slight to the other, better albums to have it in your collection. It does sound derivative of the wall, and that is because it is. The music video of the gunner's dream is incredible; the father of the slain serviceman is the same actor playing the teacher in the wall movie, and, the same character. This puts a deeper meaning on the interaction of a kid writing poems in class with no connection to reality because he lost his dad in a war and a teacher upset at him who lost a son in a war. Staying with that song, I have never heard a song where the end of a verse is exactly the same note and timbre as the beginning of an instrumental solo. Waters's voice bleeds right into the saxophone, and, later, you can, for several seconds, hear the scream at the end of one verse in the background as the next one starts. That's just the one track.

I think one of the reason's the final cut gets a lot of grief is that a lot of people don't like the wall, but they don't want to say that out of fear of mockery. It's like not liking the white album. Many people think that the peak of the band was somewhere around wish you were here, and the wall is tolerated due to its massive popularity, but it's not what a REAL FAN likes. They can't say that, because it's bollocks, but they can say it on the final cut because it's ok to hate on it.

While the wall is my favorite floyd album due to the story, and the themes, and the insane number of awesome guitar solos, I don't think it's their best album, and I would go with wish you were here for that one. Neither of those are the most commercially successful, so the normal listener does not agree with either of those statements and picks dark side of the moon.

I think the best recording of a concert was a quad project made from two stereo tape recordings of a 75 Boston Garden concert. It had the entire dark side of the moon album, early versions of shine on you crazy diamond with have a cigar in between, the two main songs of animals under their original names, and the encore was echoes with a saxophone. That's the best parts of arguably the best 4 albums.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I'll stand up for the Final Cut album. .

Me as well. Its got more filler and lyrical silliness than other Floyd albums, but The Gunners Dream, Two Suns in the Sunset, and Not Now John are very Floyd worthy

The one thing I can't figure out is why the band & management let this one garner the Pink Floyd name unless it was just for the money?

I one read an article that said Waters came to the band with two potential projects, The Final Cut, an what eventually became Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking. Gilmour hated both of them but voted for Final Cut. The specific quote I remember was Waters saying, (paraphrased) "of course they accepted it, they know songs don't grow on trees."

 

[DrKlahn]

While I'm not a huge Floyd fan, I'm rather surprised at the negative comments about the album. As I recall "The Wall" was almost as big as "Dark Side of the Moon". AFAIK all the other albums went somewhat unnoticed. I'm sure that they were all huge other places like the UK.

Aside from "Money" from Dark Side, I can't recall any other "Pink Floyd" track getting any amount of airtime. The title track "The Wall" was played extensively, I remember it fondly from MTV. I had a friend who had "Animals" and heavily played it. Animals is still my favorite Floyd album, I don't recall ever hearing any of it played on AM or FM radio.

Many people had a copy of "The Wall" in the early eighties. I was not enough of a fan to get my own copy, now if Quad was still a thing I surely would have. Double albums at times can tend to be watered down or too repetitive, perhaps a condensed version would have been be preferable for the critics.

I do understand that often as an artist gains fame, they tend to alienate their biggest fans. I find that true in almost every case, as an artist gains fame the quality of the product diminishes. What attracted you in the first place is replaced by commercial drivel.

The Wall definitely got radio play. Of course the most popular song, Another Brick in the Wall pt2, was widely misunderstood and celebrated by school kids who thought the band was telling them they didn't need to be in school. A lot of the tracks that get airplay are also the tracks where the rest of the bands musical influences were felt most. Good By Blue Sky, Comfortably Numb, Young Lust and Run Like Hell are all good examples of that. Even Mother is a duet.

I hope I'm not coming off as negative on The Wall. While I feel like it would have benefited from some trimming, it's still a very good album and one I would love to own in an immersive mix.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

The title track "The Wall" was played extensively, I remember it fondly from MTV.

For the record, there is no track called The Wall, on the album. You are referring to Another Brick in the Wall part 2

 

[DrKlahn]

I think what a lot of people are ignoring is that, while the final cut is not necessarily the greatest pink floyd album, it's better than the best work of many lesser bands. It's not a slight to the other, better albums to have it in your collection. It does sound derivative of the wall, and that is because it is. The music video of the gunner's dream is incredible; the father of the slain serviceman is the same actor playing the teacher in the wall movie, and, the same character. This puts a deeper meaning on the interaction of a kid writing poems in class with no connection to reality because he lost his dad in a war and a teacher upset at him who lost a son in a war. Staying with that song, I have never heard a song where the end of a verse is exactly the same note and timbre as the beginning of an instrumental solo. Waters's voice bleeds right into the saxophone, and, later, you can, for several seconds, hear the scream at the end of one verse in the background as the next one starts. That's just the one track.

I think one of the reason's the final cut gets a lot of grief is that a lot of people don't like the wall, but they don't want to say that out of fear of mockery. It's like not liking the white album. Many people think that the peak of the band was somewhere around wish you were here, and the wall is tolerated due to its massive popularity, but it's not what a REAL FAN likes. They can't say that, because it's bollocks, but they can say it on the final cut because it's ok to hate on it.

While the wall is my favorite floyd album due to the story, and the themes, and the insane number of awesome guitar solos, I don't think it's their best album, and I would go with wish you were here for that one. Neither of those are the most commercially successful, so the normal listener does not agree with either of those statements and picks dark side of the moon.

I think the best recording of a concert was a quad project made from two stereo tape recordings of a 75 Boston Garden concert. It had the entire dark side of the moon album, early versions of shine on you crazy diamond with have a cigar in between, the two main songs of animals under their original names, and the encore was echoes with a saxophone. That's the best parts of arguably the best 4 albums.

I think it's hard to really try to pin things down. I don't know of any of my friends that outright hate The Wall. But I don't know many that 100% love all of it. Most of my friends that grew up listening to all of this in the 80's are pretty much on the same page. TFC felt like more of the same from The Wall and musically just wasn't as engaging. It's not a bad album and you're right that it was better than a lot of what was being made at the time. But I think to love it, you really have to be in the camp that feels like The Wall is amazing beginning to end. And nothing wrong with that opinion at all.

 

[par4ken]

For the record, there is no track called The Wall, on the album. You are referring to Another Brick in the Wall part 2

You are correct but to me just "The Wall" will do.

 

[key_wiz]

Well we did finally get Animals. So, hope springs eternal I guess. I'm sure they could get Guthrie to do it, which would appease Roger (at least on the Engineering side of things). I'm not sure it's being discussed as a project (even though it should). The Wall is the only immersion set I passed on because there was nothing audio wise I didn't already own. It's a shame, since The Wall would be quite something if treated the same as Dark Side's latest remaster.

Guthrie has been working on a surround mix of The Wall for years, but there have been serious issues with the multi-tracks. A "new" but inferior tape was used at the time.

Whether he's finally finished it, and what Gilmour would think of it once it was finished and allow it go forward? Anyone's guess at this point, I suppose.