Pink Floyd The Wall in 5.1

[DrKlahn]

Guthrie has been working on a surround mix of The Wall for years, but there have been serious issues with the multi-tracks. A "new" but inferior tape was used at the time.

Whether he's finally finished it, and what Gilmour would think of it once it was finished and allow it go forward? Anyone's guess at this point, I suppose.

While none of us likely to know for certain, my take is that David and Nick are probably not going to be the roadblocks here. The Wall is Roger's opus and he would be much more likely to obstruct a release. Hopefully there's nothing any of them would object to and we'll finally get to experience it. I wonder if the technology they recently pioneered for Get Back could help with a less than optimal source? If not, I would take their best effort with what they have and enjoy it.

 

[key_wiz]

From what I have read, Waters felt Wright was not contributing and was dead weight. Wright felt essentially bullied and sidelined, which made him withdraw from participating. Wright was then fired prior to touring for The Wall. Ironically because of the expense of The Wall tour and the venues selected Wright was reported to be the only one to make a profit as a session musician on the tour.

Wright was officially welcomed back into the band for the Delicate Sound of Thunder tour and of course The Division Bell and it's tour. He was not officially part of the band for Momentary Lapse of Reason because of the continuing legal disputes (I guess him being back in the band would have caused problems for their case). Though it has come to light recently that he was unofficially involved with that album.

When "Momentary" was recently re-mixed and re-released, Wright was re-elevated to full member status by David and Nick. Given full credit, some of keyboard parts made more prominent, and he even magically appeared in the band photo!

 

[DrKlahn]

When "Momentary" was recently rem-mixed re-released, Wright was re-elevated to full member status by David and Nick. Given full credit, some of keyboard parts made more prominent, and he even magically appeared in the band photo!

Yup, my guess is that any legal recourse had expired by the time the Later Years set was being released and they decided they could admit that he was part of things. Which I'm happy to see. I'm still salty that Gdansk hasn't been released on Blu Ray as it's Rick's last performance and an HD video feed exists.

 

[DuncanS]

I can listen to it once and a while and enjoy it. It certainly is low on my "favorite PF albums list", but there are some decent songs on it. It's main shortcoming is that it is more of a Waters solo effort than a band effort. If I frame it that way, I can say it's my second favorite RW solo album (ATD being number 1).

Here's a question for you both; do you think a 5.1 or Atmos surround mix would help to change your opinion?

An really interesting question! I'm not certain, as I find it musically weak, very un-PF, yes it covers some difficult topics may be a bit too much in-your-face, but even viewed as a solo effort I much prefer the Pros & Cons Of Hitchhiking which overall I find much more engaging musically.

 

[privateuniverse]

I one read an article that said Waters came to the band with two potential projects, The Final Cut, an what eventually became Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking. Gilmour hated both of them but voted for Final Cut. The specific quote I remember was Waters saying, (paraphrased) "of course they accepted it, they know songs don't grow on trees."

It was actually Pros & Cons and The Wall. Sometime in (I think) 1978, Roger gave the band demos for both. He told the band that he wanted to keep one for a solo project and that the other would be for the Floyd. He gave the band first choice. Gilmour felt that Pros & Cons was much too personal to be a band project and therefore should be the one that Roger did as a solo album. Gilmour also felt that The Wall was quite personal but liked the overall theatrical element of the wall concept. Gilmour however, did not like much of what was on Roger's original Wall demo and encouraged Roger to keep writing. Some of the songs that ended up on the album were not part of Roger's original demo.

 

[Kodaline]

I think it's hard to really try to pin things down. I don't know of any of my friends that outright hate The Wall. But I don't know many that 100% love all of it. Most of my friends that grew up listening to all of this in the 80's are pretty much on the same page. TFC felt like more of the same from The Wall and musically just wasn't as engaging. It's not a bad album and you're right that it was better than a lot of what was being made at the time. But I think to love it, you really have to be in the camp that feels like The Wall is amazing beginning to end. And nothing wrong with that opinion at all.

I will agree with that. I do love the wall, but, of the 4 sides of it, you could get rid of 1 side made up from a couple pieces from side 2 and most of side 3. This is as opposed to The Who's Tommy, where you could, in my opinion, ditch the entire 4th side, and I won't get into Quadrophenia, which has an annoyingly misleading title as it is in stereo. (That's a joke.)

 

[LuvMyQuad]

In my circles, those who dislike The Wall and TFC and PF music in general cite the fact that it is mostly depressing and has dark themes. None of it is "happy music"

 

[key_wiz]

Yup, my guess is that any legal recourse had expired by the time the Later Years set was being released and they decided they could admit that he was part of things. Which I'm happy to see. I'm still salty that Gdansk hasn't been released on Blu Ray as it's Rick's last performance and an HD video feed exists.

I don't think that is what happened.

He was always given credit for his work on the album.

It was just a matter of him being officially a sideman originally and they have since decided to correct that. How much of that had to do with legal issues? That I can't speak to.

 

[Bill B]

When "Momentary" was recently re-mixed and re-released, Wright was re-elevated to full member status by David and Nick. Given full credit, some of keyboard parts made more prominent, and he even magically appeared in the band photo!



View attachment 97658

Picture when Rick wasn't a full member.

 

[key_wiz]

I will agree with that. I do love the wall, but, of the 4 sides of it, you could get rid of 1 side made up from a couple pieces from side 2 and most of side 3. This is as opposed to The Who's Tommy, where you could, in my opinion, ditch the entire 4th side, and I won't get into Quadrophenia, which has an annoyingly misleading title as it is in stereo. (That's a joke.)

Yep.

It probably would have been a better album to have only been about 70 minutes long. It certainly drags in some places, and I'd argue the narrative starts to get lost in the process as well.

Would have still been a double LP and would have later fit onto one CD.

 

[Bill B]

I don't know, if you look at the movie and see how all those songs fit into the overall vision of the story, none of the songs seem that superfluous to me. I remember when the movie was released and I saw it for the first time, I thought it was amazing how some of the background noises/dialogue that were on the album showed up in the movie. Now granted, they could mold the movie to make it fit to some degree, but still, the overall concept was pretty flushed out when the album was released. Originally, we just thought all the background noises and dialogue were there to make it more trippy (and I can vouch, that it worked).

 

[ssully]

That's because it's not a very good album.

I bought it upon release as well. Didn't like it. Read the 5-star review Rolling Stone gave it at the time and I figured I must be missing something. Kept trying to figure out what it was. Still didn't like it.

Have revisited it a handful of times over the years and nope. Doesn't get better with age. A couple of decent tracks that, even then, aren't as good as the weakest tracks on the previous 5 albums.

All just my opinion, of course.

It's better than The Wall, which is so highly overrated it's not funny, and is my standard bearer for 'double albums that would have been far, far better as singles'.

Or maybe it is funny, at the expense of fans.

Every moment Gilmour plays on The Final Cut is brilliant. The rest of it ranges from OK to very good indeed, a standout being 'The Hero's Return'. ( I have no use for 'When the Tigers Broke Free' )

I liked TFC immediately on release and still do, though I don't listen to it much anymore (though more often than The Wall). Waters just pounded that slow waltz time dirge thing of his (which started with The Wall) into the ground in subsequent solo albums, which made TFC less distinctive.

It was recorded in 'holophonic sound' and there were some surroundy moments there. A true surround mix is called for.

 

[ssully]

And agreed-- Outside of "Not Now John", it's a Waters album, not a Floyd album. But even that isn't a GREAT track. More importantly, I think the album is serious hurt by a lack of Richard Wright. I didn't realize just how essential he was to the sound of PF until that album came out.

It's arguable how much of the keyboards on the Wall are Wright's.

"Waters, Gilmour, producer Bob Ezrin, composer Michael Kamen and session player Fred Mandel also played keyboard parts on The Wall" -- wikipedia

 

[key_wiz]

The “holophonic sound” was a pointless, over-hyped gimmick, IMO. Whether it would be a good surround album or not? Perhaps. I’d welcome its release.

 

[DrKlahn]

I don't think that is what happened.

He was always given credit for his work on the album.

It was just a matter of him being officially a sideman originally and they have since decided to correct that. How much of that had to do with legal issues? That I can't speak to.

Apologies, I didn't mean to imply he wasn't involved in the album. Maybe I'm not remembering right, but I think they could not name him as a member of Pink Floyd or credit him with some of his creative contributions. And then reading interviews on the Later Years set, Nick and David did acknowledge it (which is why I hypothesized that a legal limit had run out).

The important part is that his contributions are recognized. A big part of my love of Floyd is his keyboard work synergizing with David's guitar along with how well their vocals harmonized. So, anything that gives Rick the credit he deserves makes me happy to see.

 

[ssully]

While I'm not a huge Floyd fan, I'm rather surprised at the negative comments about the album. As I recall "The Wall" was almost as big as "Dark Side of the Moon". AFAIK all the other albums went somewhat unnoticed. I'm sure that they were all huge other places like the UK.

They were huge in the USA too, I remember well. Wish You Were Here was a #1 album, and Animals reached #3. Tracks from the former are staples on 'classic rock' radio to this day, the latter less so. They were both played extensively by NYC-area rock stations in the 1970s.

 

[key_wiz]

It's arguable how much of the keyboards on the Wall are Wright's.

"Waters, Gilmour, producer Bob Ezrin, composer Michael Kamen and session player Fred Mandel also played keyboard parts on The Wall" -- wikipedia

“The Wall” isn’t particularly Floyd-y through much of it.

It’s one of those albums where I consider its strengths to also be its weaknesses. It’s an overblown, cartoonish mess and that’s either what people love or hate about it. And most all of that is the work of Bob Ezrin.

 

[ssully]

The “holophonic sound” was a pointless, over-hyped gimmick, IMO. Whether it would be a good surround album or not? Perhaps. I’d welcome its release.

Did you ever have a set up where it worked? When it did, it was uncanny at placing audio images way out beyond the boundaries of the stereo speakers. Amused to Death has the best examples. I dont see how it was any more 'pointless' than a surround mix. Both are attempts to break beyond the confines of typical stereo.

 

[key_wiz]

I know you meant he was involved. I just took your comments to imply he want given credit for his involvement at the time. He certainly was. He just wasn’t credited as a full member of Pink Floyd. But he was certainly acknowledged and credited for his contributions

 

[DrKlahn]

I don't know, if you look at the movie and see how all those songs fit into the overall vision of the story, none of the songs seem that superfluous to me. I remember when the movie was released and I saw it for the first time, I thought it was amazing how some of the background noises/dialogue that were on the album showed up in the movie. Now granted, they could mold the movie to make it fit to some degree, but still, the overall concept was pretty flushed out when the album was released. Originally, we just thought all the background noises and dialogue were there to make it more trippy (and I can vouch, that it worked).

For me that's a case of different mediums creating different experiences. Like a book becoming a movie and the changes we often see. I don't often watch The Wall film, but I don't recall feeling the same way as I do listening to it. Where my brain maybe focused on the shortcomings I perceive in a certain song listening to the album, the films visuals can carry my attention. Though I've stated I feel like The Wall would be better if it was trimmed some, I can always skip a track and since I know there are people that love the entire piece I wouldn't change it now.