Streaming Atmos: Do you lose any fidelity with a Tidal Atmos stream compared to a Blu-ray Atmos?

[Sal1950]

Competition between the streaming providers will compel one of them to add the lossless Atmos as a differentiator, possibly at a higher price tier. Just like it happened with HD stereo streaming, someone would start first, others will have to follow. The pure music Atmos is relative novelty, but for new movies is now a default, so it won’t be another dying format.

From your lips to Gods Ear. I do believe your right on that, it took us how many years of bitching to get lossless 2ch streaming? Heck Spotify still says its lossless 2ch is "just around the corner" after 3 years of promise.
What a sad situation with them.
Atmos music is here to stay, the current releases of a large percentage of popular genre's seems to include a Atmos mix on Apple. I would hope for a more widespread release of either BD discs or downloads but that's a bit iffy.

 

[yerbas07]

I've been working with the TrueHD stream from a BD Atmos and using different softs and the Dolby Engine Encoder, I've obtained m4a files of different resolutions.
This way I've managed to improve the m4a atmos streaming from the platforms to 1635kps, 16/48 and 7.1. I've also managed to obtain m4a TrueHD Atmos 24/48, 7.1 files from the Atmos stream of the BD.

 

[yerbas07]

I just want to say that streaming platforms are offering the minimum resolution of atmos, as they don't want to compete with the record labels that are interested in selling the physical BD format.
Upgrading the resolution for streaming is very easy and being able to make m4a TruHD Atmos files is also very easy, since I have managed to do it.
Anyway, very soon, atmos streaming will improve a lot and you will be able to buy TrueHD Atmos files.

 

[KG10]

I just want to say that streaming platforms are offering the minimum resolution of atmos, as they don't want to compete with the record labels that are interested in selling the physical BD format.
Upgrading the resolution for streaming is very easy and being able to make m4a TruHD Atmos files is also very easy, since I have managed to do it.
Anyway, very soon, atmos streaming will improve a lot and you will be able to buy TrueHD Atmos files.

Do you think being able to buy lossless atmos files would impact physical bd sales?

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Do you think being able to buy lossless atmos files would impact physical bd sales?

Wouldant it have to? I mean, who will buy the DL and the disc of the same release?

 

[KG10]

Wouldant it have to? I mean, who will buy the DL and the disc of the same release?

Collectors I assume?

 

[yerbas07]

Do you think being able to buy lossless atmos files would impact physical bd sales?

I'm sure that lossless atmos files will have a negative impact on the BD industry. For that very reason there is some restriction or agreement with Dolby Labs so that this doesn't happen at the moment and streaming platforms only offer lossy format. But there are already people who sell lossless atmos, specifically the one from a Mr. Big album.
I prefer atmos files on my hard drive to the annoying BD taking up space on my shelf and putting them on and off the player tray to select a certain song.

 

[MidiMagic]

This brings up a question of what the highest form of surround sound available is for each kind of media:

Standard media:
VHS
DVD
HDTV broadcast
Blu-Ray
4K

Other special media:

 

[HomerJAU]

For Blu-ray and UHD (4K): DTS-HDMA, Dolby TrueHD and LPCM are theoretically the best as they can do 24 bit 96kHz lossless (and 192kHz) up to 8 channels. Atmos TrueHD is fixed at 48kHz lossless (but can be lossy depending on encoder settings, for music I’ve not seen lossy Atmos TrueHD yet but it can be used on long movies when disc space it at a premium).

 

[Owen Smith]

For DVD-Video the best is full rate 1.5mbps DTS 5.1, or LPCM 24/96 for stereo. The DTS could be vanilla or 24/96 or ES 6.1 discrete, but it all has to fit in 1.5mbps so it's a choice of what to spend those bits on and I'd rather use them to encode vanilla DTS 5.1.

For DVD-Audio the best is MLP (Meridian Lossless Packing) for 5.1 24/96, or stereo 24/192. But you don't get any video with that.

For VHS the best is hifi stereo (FM depth recording), assuming you mean VHS with video. Personally I used S-VHS but while the picture is noticeably better with S-VHS the hifi stereo audio seemed no better than regular VHS.

 

[KG10]

For DVD-Video the best is full rate 1.5mbps DTS 5.1, or LPCM 24/96 for stereo. The DTS could be vanilla or 24/96 or ES 6.1 discrete, but it all has to fit in 1.5mbps so it's a choice of what to spend those bits on and I'd rather use them to encode vanilla DTS 5.1.

For DVD-Audio the best is MLP (Meridian Lossless Packing) for 5.1 24/96, or stereo 24/192. But you don't get any video with that.

For VHS the best is hifi stereo (FM depth recording), assuming you mean VHS with video. Personally I used S-VHS but while the picture is noticeably better with S-VHS the hifi stereo audio seemed no better than regular VHS.

Not sure if this counts as true surround but vhs did have 4.1 dolby surround much like laserdisc for pcm audio although that also had lossy formats such as dts and dolby digital.

 

[timbre4]

Not sure if this counts as true surround but vhs did have 4.1 dolby surround much like laserdisc for pcm audio although that also had lossy lossy formats such as dts and dolby digital.

Dolby Surround was strictly 4.0, no dedicated LFE channel; in the twilight years of laserdisc, AC-3 (Dolby Digital) became available. The DTS laserdiscs utilized the same scheme of commandeering the alternate audio channels present in the laserdisc format. Strictly an either/or proposition, can;t have both DD & DTS.

 

[KG10]

Dolby Surround was strictly 4.0, no dedicated LFE channel; in the twilight years of laserdisc, AC-3 (Dolby Digital) became available. The DTS laserdiscs utilized the same scheme of commandeering the alternate audio channels present in the laserdisc format. Strictly an either/or proposition, can;t have both DD & DTS.

Thanks for the correction

 

[Sal1950]

For Blu-ray and UHD (4K): DTS-HDMA, Dolby TrueHD and LPCM are theoretically the best as they can do 24 bit 96kHz lossless (and 192kHz) up to 8 channels. Atmos TrueHD is fixed at 48kHz lossless (but can be lossy depending on encoder settings, for music I’ve not seen lossy Atmos TrueHD yet but it can be used on long movies when disc space it at a premium).

Awesome how far we've come with the various options !
Now if we could only get the streamers on board with lossless Atmos we've have it made.

 

[Owen Smith]

Not sure if this counts as true surround but vhs did have 4.1 dolby surround much like laserdisc for pcm audio although that also had lossy lossy formats such as dts and dolby digital.

Not on VHS it didn't. It was recorded on VHS as stereo, going to any more was matrix decoding of the analogue audio and that is independent of the media eg. you can do it just the same with stereo CD or DVD-Video.

 

[KG10]

Not on VHS it didn't. It was recorded on VHS as stereo, going to any more was matrix decoding of the analogue audio and that is independent of the media eg. you can do it just the same with stereo CD or DVD-Video.

I know it was which was why I said "Not sure if this counts as true surround"

Although in hindsight I should have said something like "although its not discrete surround"

 

[timbre4]

Not on VHS it didn't. It was recorded on VHS as stereo, going to any more was matrix decoding of the analogue audio and that is independent of the media eg. you can do it just the same with stereo CD or DVD-Video.

Recording to VHS tape that's true; however there were tons of VHS media available with Dolby Surround as home entertainment.

 

[Owen Smith]

Recording to VHS tape that's true; however there were tons of VHS media available with Dolby Surround as home entertainment.

That is still stereo hifi audio on the VHS tape, matrix decoded to Dolby Surround. This is no different to Dolby Surround encoded stereo CDs or LaserDiscs or FM radio, all of which existed. I feel this discussion should be limited to native formats, we all know what matrix decoding can achieve. And this is all a side issue to the streaming Atmos discussion of this thread.

 

[timbre4]

That is still stereo hifi audio on the VHS tape, matrix decoded to Dolby Surround. This is no different to Dolby Surround encoded stereo CDs or LaserDiscs or FM radio, all of which existed. I feel this discussion should be limited to native formats, we all know what matrix decoding can achieve. And this is all a side issue to the streaming Atmos discussion of this thread.

Guess I misinterpreted this comment. Not on VHS it didn't.

 

[MidiMagic]

That is still stereo hifi audio on the VHS tape, matrix decoded to Dolby Surround. This is no different to Dolby Surround encoded stereo CDs or LaserDiscs or FM radio, all of which existed. I feel this discussion should be limited to native formats, we all know what matrix decoding can achieve. And this is all a side issue to the streaming Atmos discussion of this thread.

The VHS tapes I have say on the label either Dolby Stereo or Dolby Surround. The original movies were matrix encoded and the soundtracks on VHS are also encoded.

Likewise, most of my DVDs default to Dolby Surround if you don't have a DD5.1 player. Some of the newer ones are not encoded for DS if you don't have DD5.1, probably because Dolby no longer supports it.

Many of the soundtrack albums I have (LP, cassette, and CD) are Dolby Surround encoded and play back in surround through a DS decoder.

I am still receiving some DS encoded programs on TV and FM. Even when programs are not encoded, some commercials are.