Suggestions for Dutton Epoch Classical Multichannel SACDs

[ubertrout]

We're excited for a couple reasons.

1 - It seems Audio Fidelity is done, so who else do we have releasing Quad in genres we remotely care about (those who want non classical)
2 - Prices are good
3 - Quality is outstanding
4 - The unknown of what's next

I dunno - I love these releases. I loved all the cheesy elevator music releases. It seems to me that classical is not lacking in the surround world...but maybe it is. I've purchased a few just to test the waters, but I tend to not love that genre...but I try.

That's all totally fair. I was being a bit curmudgeonly and tongue-in-cheek, and generally my attitude is to be happy when I got stuff, and be glad for other quad fans when they get stuff they want, even if I have no interest.

The classical world doesn't lack for surround mixes, but there's always more great stuff out there, and classical is probably the area with the most unissued quads, both at all and in terms of digital reissues. If everything Deutsche Grammophon did from 1970-1976 was done in quad but only issued in stereo, that's roughly 500 unissued quads (beyond test pressings they didn't issue a thing in quad in the 70s). From Columbia and RCA there are dozens if not hundreds more quad issues, and so many more from EMI and other Warner owned companies, of which only 15-20 have been reissued in digital form, and none since the early 00s.

And you're not obligated to love everything. If D-V ever releases the RCA Fantastic Philadelphians double albums that would be a good one to try, though - very much on the popular end. The Vivaldi Four Seasons is probably the most popular material of D-Vs classical quads thus far (well, that or the Rubinstein/Ormandy piano concertos disc, which is amazing musically but so-so sonically).

 

[GOS]

So Uber - which of the classical titles that Vocalion is offering (multi-channel) sound the best and have good content in your opinion? Or maybe you don't feel Vocalion is really offering any that fit that bill? I would be clueless obviously...

 

[ubertrout]

So Uber - which of the classical titles that Vocalion is offering (multi-channel) sound the best and have good content in your opinion? Or maybe you don't feel Vocalion is really offering any that fit that bill? I would be clueless obviously...

The 5 D-V classical quads were all superb. One cool thing is that unlike in Pop, D-V was able to get the absolute cream of the crop of material now owned by Sony. Arthur Rubinstein was in the top 5 of pianists for the 20th century, and his concerto recordings made in the 1970s have never been out of print. This was a day 1 purchase for me, and even though it's probably the worst sonically of the 5, Dutton did all they could do, and it gets a lot of listening. The Stokowski Bach Transcriptions disc is another favorite, another one which has never been out of print on CD but is far beyond the CD in quality. I like Michael Dutton's quad mix of the Wagner as the final track but it's kind of a weird juxtaposition with the Bach. If you liked the opening of Fantasia with the Melodic Line you'll like this (that was Stokowski conducting his arrangements in the original Fantasia - he was already pushing 60 then).

The Four Seasons disc probably has the best combination of sound and quad mix, and it's a good performance, but The Four Seasons is overrepresented on SACD already (if you don't believe me: http://hraudio.net/recordings.php?work=551). In fact, D-V has already released this work on quad SACD twice, the Swingle Singers being another less traditional version. I also like the Bream guitar disc, but I'm not an aficionado of classical guitar.

The Rheinberger organ concertos disc is really cool, but there's a reason it never got a stereo CD release - it's much more esoteric than the other works. Still a lot of fun, though, I wouldn't want to dissuade you.

 

[GOS]

Does LUTE ever comment in this thread? I mean, he has shown, over and over, that he is a classical sort of guy. I wonder what he thinks of Vocalion and their titles?

 

[4-earredwonder]

Does LUTE ever comment in this thread? I mean, he has shown, over and over, that he is a classical sort of guy. I wonder what he thinks of Vocalion and their titles?

Gene, I VERY highly recommend this D~V Two~Fer classical title. It is WILDLY discrete and contains absolutely beautiful music: https://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=CDLK4594

 

[ubertrout]

Gene, I VERY highly recommend this D~V Two~Fer classical title. It is WILDLY discrete and contains absolutely beautiful music: https://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=CDLK4594

Totally forgot about this one, recommended. Konstelanetz was close to the pop side of crossover than the classical side, but not on these albums, which are quite wonderful and hadn't had a previous digital release. The second half especially is sort of a "greatest hits of Spanish classical music," while the first half is more specialized fare.

There's a lot of other labels that do great work with classical, notably Pentatone, which holds the record for most quads released on SACD, a record unlikely to be touched by anyone else. But if you want to support D-V, checking out some of these albums is a good way to do it.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Totally forgot about this one, recommended. Konstelanetz was close to the pop side of crossover than the classical side, but not on these albums, which are quite wonderful and hadn't had a previous digital release. The second half especially is sort of a "greatest hits of Spanish classical music," while the first half is more specialized fare.

There's a lot of other labels that do great work with classical, notably Pentatone, which holds the record for most quads released on SACD, a record unlikely to be touched by anyone else. But if you want to support D-V, checking out some of these albums is a good way to do it.

Regarding your last statement, ubertrout, BIS has released a whole lot of classical multichannel SACDs and unlike other labels they never go out of print.

In fact, I just added this very recently released BIS SACD to my collection: http://hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=12351

And this Pentatone DGG QUAD remaster as well, based on YOUR recommendation: https://www.amazon.com/Bela-Bartok-...rd_wg=JHvCG&psc=1&refRID=6KF4FFBNBE9RNG5DKWZB

Should have both by this weekend.

And so as not to appear smug, according to HRAudio.net, BIS actually has released MORE Surround SACDs than Pentatone [BIS numbers 41 pages of releases whereas Pentatone has 31]

Wonder if Dutton Vocalion would ever consider releasing the hundreds of unreleased EMI/ANGEL QUAD masters, now controlled by Warners..........Now, THAT would be special!

 

[ubertrout]

Regarding your last statement, ubertrout, BIS has released a whole lot of classical multichannel SACDs and unlike other labels they never go out of print.

In fact, I just added this very recently released BIS SACD to my collection: http://hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=12351

And this Pentatone DGG QUAD remaster as well, based on YOUR recommendation: https://www.amazon.com/Bela-Bartok-...rd_wg=JHvCG&psc=1&refRID=6KF4FFBNBE9RNG5DKWZB

Should have both by this weekend.

And so as not to appear smug, according to HRAudio.net, BIS actually has released MORE Surround SACDs than Pentatone [BIS numbers 41 pages of releases whereas Pentatone has 31]

Wonder if Dutton Vocalion would ever consider releasing the hundreds of unreleased EMI/ANGEL QUAD masters, now controlled by Warners..........Now, THAT would be special!

BIS has done a ton of good music in surround, although their recordings are very rarely particularly discrete (the Neschling "Roman Trilogy" of Respighi is one of the few exceptions). I have probably closing in on 100 of their SACDs. There's a lot of labels that do well by SACD in the classical world, though...that's a seperate conversation.

I was going to mention that I gave a listen to the Music for Celesta et al from the Pentatone Bartok disc - very nicely discrete with different lines in the rears. Not music for beginners, though.

It would be cool if D-V could get into those EMI/Warner vaults, but I'm not holding my breath. For now, if they keep plumbing the Sony vaults, I'm more than happy.

 

[4-earredwonder]

BIS has done a ton of good music in surround, although their recordings are very rarely particularly discrete (the Neschling "Roman Trilogy" of Respighi is one of the few exceptions). I have probably closing in on 100 of their SACDs. There's a lot of labels that do well by SACD in the classical world, though...that's a seperate conversation.

I was going to mention that I gave a listen to the Music for Celesta et al from the Pentatone Bartok disc - very nicely discrete with different lines in the rears. Not music for beginners, though.

It would be cool if D-V could get into those EMI/Warner vaults, but I'm not holding my breath. For now, if they keep plumbing the Sony vaults, I'm more than happy.

Amen, regarding your last statement. But I'm NOT holding my breath either.

Pentatone's SACDs also tend to be rear ambience only except those Thomas Mowrey produced DGG QUADS [most especially Carmen and Treemonisha] which are VERY discrete. Glad to hear the Bartok has discrete elements, as well.

 

[ubertrout]

Amen, regarding your last statement. But I'm NOT holding my breath either.

Pentatone's SACDs also tend to be rear ambience only except those Thomas Mowrey produced DGG QUADS [most especially Carmen and Treemonisha] which are VERY discrete. Glad to hear the Bartok has discrete elements, as well.

The Bernstein Carmen is sort of demo material if you have any interest in opera in quad. Treemoninsha is cool, but it's not the same caliber of composition.

 

[H.A.L.]

A list of all the RCA QUAD and STEREO Charles Gerhardt Classic Film Score releases for RCA: http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/art...e_RCA_Gerhardt_Classic_Film_Scores_Series.asp

This caught my eye:

"Charles Gerhardt's film score recordings for Reader's Digest Great Music from the Movies (LP) Reader's Digest RD3-39 (RCA Custom) (1966)-Four LP Box Set"

Doubt it is possible to have it all in surround, but could you imagine the soundtrack to LAWRENCE OF ARABIA in surround? :bounce17

Heck, one of the listings even had GONE WITH THE WIND, which would be gorgeous, although that might upset the more PC people these days. . . .

 

[4-earredwonder]

This caught my eye:

"Charles Gerhardt's film score recordings for Reader's Digest Great Music from the Movies (LP) Reader's Digest RD3-39 (RCA Custom) (1966)-Four LP Box Set"

Doubt it is possible to have it all in surround, but could you imagine the soundtrack to LAWRENCE OF ARABIA in surround? :bounce17

Heck, one of the listings even had GONE WITH THE WIND, which would be gorgeous, although that might upset the more PC people these days. . . .

Unfortunately, NOT in surround but an amazing re~recording of the COMPLETE 77 minute Maurice Jarre original score for Lawrence of Arabia on one pretty spectacular sounding RBCD: https://www.amazon.com/Lawrence-Ara...9192292&sr=1-2&keywords=lawrence+of+Arabia+cd

Recorded with a 104 piece orchestra.

 

[fredblue]

just playing the Pulcinella Suite side of the Boulez Stravinsky Pulcinella SQ LP for the first time since I got it .. no idea why I never played it before now, I think it came in a big batch of records and I forgot all about it.. if its anything to go by I think we're in for a treat with the Vocalion SACD if the SQ LP is decoding accurately, it sounds amazing and the mix is quite something, the rears are active with full on brass blasting out right now (track 7, the part/passage is called "Vivo" i think it is? sorry I'm really thick when it comes to Classical ) anyway.. I'll have a flick thru see if I have any others of this upcoming lot on Quad vinyl.. quite exciting! :yikes

edit: oh Jesus the Wind Instruments on side 2 is -- a surround spectacular!! its like Fantasia or something..!!! :worthy

 

[fredblue]

ain't that the truth! I think maybe this Pulcinella is destined to be a reference Quad SACD! I'm playing the "Symphonies d'Instruments à Vent" on Side 2 right now and even just from a crackly old SQ LP the surround sound is jaw dropping!

even though this is obviously a very different kind of music, Larry Keyes is my Quad Scheiner, he did the Quads of, among others, 360 Degrees Of Billy Paul, Johnny Nash's My Merry Go Round, Poco Crazy Eyes, Santana's Caravanserai, Loggins & Messina Full Sail.. to me the guy was really one of if not the best CBS Quad guy imho.
perhaps Don Young (who did the Billy Joel's, REO Speedwagons, Dave Masons, etc) rivalled him but Larry was so versatile and had a real flair for Quad mixing, he didn't get it right every time but when he did its sumptuous surround sound, which is kinda what we're here for isn't it

Mike Dutton tells me that all of these new discs are active, discrete quad aside from the Rubenstein/Barenboim Beethoven set which is concert hall sound.

He also said that the Stravinsky 'Pulcinella Suite' is "mega surround!" which is no surprise as the quad mix was done by FredBlue's favourite rock and roll quad mixer, Larry Keyes. Keyes also did the quad mixes on the Bernstein/Haydn disc that is part of this release. It's also worth noting that Pulcinella Suite was one of Columbia's very last classical quad releases in 1978, and was single inventory too, so this is the first time the discrete master is being heard anywhere.

 

[ubertrout]

I think one lesson here is simply not to get too fixated on particular releases - none of these were really on my radar as possible releases, and they're all pleasant surprises.

I still think DV should try for a release of Bernstein's Mass, in advance of his centenary in August of 2018. It's really conceived for quad, including the prerecorded quad tracks used at live performances.

 

[4-earredwonder]

I think one lesson here is simply not to get too fixated on particular releases - none of these were really on my radar as possible releases, and they're all pleasant surprises.

I still think DV should try for a release of Bernstein's Mass, in advance of his centenary in August of 2018. It's really conceived for quad, including the prerecorded quad tracks used at live performances.

Although there ARE two multichannel SACD recordings of Bernstein's Mass currently available [I have both], neither, IMO, approaches Bernstein's original 'passionate' 1971 Columbia recording. That would be a great choice for D~V's meticulous remastering and a welcome addition to the scant Bernstein discography available on SACD.

 

[humprof]

Agreed. Would either of you care to take a stab at compiling that short discography?

I'm aware of a quad recording of the 1974 revival of Candide--though I'm still searching for it. And I have the recent SFS/MTT recording of West Side Story, which I quite like (but which almost goes out of its way to hide the fact that it's 5.1). What else should I put on my list?

Although there ARE two multichannel SACD recordings of Bernstein's Mass currently available [I have both], neither, IMO, approaches Bernstein's original 'passionate' 1971 Columbia recording. That would be a great choice for D~V's meticulous remastering and a welcome addition to the scant Bernstein discography available on SACD.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Agreed. Would either of you care to take a stab at compiling that short discography?

I'm aware of a quad recording of the 1974 revival of Candide--though I'm still searching for it. And I have the recent SFS/MTT recording of West Side Story, which I quite like (but which almost goes out of its way to hide the fact that it's 5.1). What else should I put on my list?

Bernstein's Mass [SACD multichannel/2 SACDs]: http://hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=5729&showall=1 and http://hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=2476

IMO, the Järvi on Chandos is the better of the two.

Bernstein's Mass as conducted by Leonard Bernstein on SONY [2 disc/RBCD]: https://www.amazon.com/Bernstein-Ma...243352&sr=1-1&keywords=leonard+bernstein+mass

BTW, this RBCD is NOT the original 1971 premiere recording at the Kennedy Center in Washington DC which was NOT well received by the critics but has henceforth enjoyed a cult following.

 

[humprof]

Oh, for dumb! (as they say in Minnesota). I had the Nagano Mass sitting on my shelves this whole time. Bought it years ago, before I began to get interested in multi-channel, listened to it once and didn't connect with it, filed it away. Didn't even realize it was SACD! Time for a fresh listen. I like what I read about the Järvi, though.

Bernstein's Mass [SACD multichannel/2 SACDs]: http://hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=5729&showall=1 and http://hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=2476

IMO, the Järvi on Chandos is the better of the two.

Bernstein's Mass as conducted by Leonard Bernstein on SONY [2 disc/RBCD]: https://www.amazon.com/Bernstein-Ma...243352&sr=1-1&keywords=leonard+bernstein+mass

BTW, this RBCD is NOT the original 1971 premiere recording at the Kennedy Center in Washington DC which was NOT well received by the critics but has henceforth enjoyed a cult following.

 

[ubertrout]

Anyone heard the quad mix on this? Aside from a Japanese issue it's never been properly in print on CD, stereo or quad. Also on the program is Respighi's Pines of Rome, a short Chinese traditional piece, and Sousa's Stars and Stripes.