Suggestions for Dutton Epoch Classical Multichannel SACDs

[ubertrout]

Ok mixed for quad in NY is close enough for me.


Yep that’s that’s the one. Now don’t that one deserve a quad SACD reissue before many classical albums from the true quad era. Unless it turns out to be an ambient rear channel letdown.

Absolutely! And I'd assume the rears are fairly active, although someone who has heard could verify. Would be a great SACD from Dutton. A proposed coupling would be his recording of Stravinsky's Symphony of Psalms with the same forces, and mixed in quad but only released in stereo (not counting a reel copy that leaked out). Apparently they performed the same material live along with the Capriccio, which exists on video (sadly not in great shape). I wonder if they recorded the Capriccio for Piano and Orchestra as well but never released it? - https://www.gramophone.co.uk/review/stravinsky-the-rite-of-spring-symphony-of-psalms

Edit to add: there's a photo of the recording session here: https://stereosociety.com/20/QuadBernsteinRite.shtml

Edit again: a comment from Classic CD Review:

Leonard Bernstein always championed Sacre and recorded it three times, plus a video. When Stravinsky heard the NYP recording made in Brooklyn's St. George Hotel January 20, 1958, his comment was, "Wow!" Stravinsky had recorded it with the same orchestra in 1940, tame when compared with Bernstein's dynamic performance, now issued on Sony on a mid-price newly remastered disk as well as on an audiophile LP (that costs twice a much). It seems odd that Sony instead didn't issue this performance on SACD and couple it with Bernstein's1972 LSO recording which was made when there was considerable interest in quadraphonic recording. It was recorded multi-channel; I never heard it multi-channel but the two-channel reduction (included in Sony's "reference" set) is a mess—overly reverberant and muddy. It would be interesting to hear the original four-track recording, and with today's technology this would have been the opportunity to do so . An opportunity missed, unfortunately.

 

[humprof]

Would be a great SACD from Dutton. A proposed coupling would be his recording of Stravinsky's Symphony of Psalms with the same forces, and mixed in quad but only released in stereo (not counting a reel copy that leaked out).

Yes please! (Hadn't heard about--or registered--the leaked recording you mention. Was this one of the Mike Robbin reels? It's been a long time since I looked over the complete list.)

 

[ubertrout]

Yes please! (Hadn't heard about--or registered--the leaked recording you mention. Was this one of the Mike Robbin reels? It's been a long time since I looked over the complete list.)

Indeed so! Side 2 of the album is Poulenc's Gloria (which sadly would make the disc too long when coupled with the Rite even if in quad): https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/QQ-CQ4mr.html

 

[ubertrout]

There was a fascinating article in the New York Times in 1973 about classical in quad, with interviews of many of the leading musical figures of the day, who are almost entirely no longer with us: https://www.nytimes.com/1973/03/18/archives/is-surround-sound-here-to-stay-hifi.html

The article has some fascinating mistakes (although I suspect the assertion that Bernstein's recording of Carmen was in stereo only was more of a lie by DG than a mistake by NYT, as we've since discovered with the Pentatone and DG Blu-Ray releases. One gets the sense that Boulez in particular was a fan of active uses of quadraphonic sound, which wasn't surprising given his own bona fides as a modernist (and eventually electronic) composer as well as his interest in structural clarity and detail.

The Somary recording they discuss has been released on SACD, although it's fairly out of print by now:

I don't know exactly which Budapest String Quartet recording they're talking about as having one instrument in each corner, although that ensemble made their last recording in 1967. This is one such album I'm aware of: https://www.discogs.com/Budapest-Qu...et-No-3-In-E-Flat-Major-Op-97/release/8166439

 

[humprof]

There was a fascinating article in the New York Times in 1973 about classical in quad, with interviews of many of the leading musical figures of the day, who are almost entirely no longer with us: https://www.nytimes.com/1973/03/18/archives/is-surround-sound-here-to-stay-hifi.html

The article has some fascinating mistakes (although I suspect the assertion that Bernstein's recording of Carmen was in stereo only was more of a lie by DG than a mistake by NYT, as we've since discovered with the Pentatone and DG Blu-Ray releases. One gets the sense that Boulez in particular was a fan of active uses of quadraphonic sound, which wasn't surprising given his own bona fides as a modernist (and eventually electronic) composer as well as his interest in structural clarity and detail.

The Somary recording they discuss has been released on SACD, although it's fairly out of print by now:

I don't know exactly which Budapest String Quartet recording they're talking about as having one instrument in each corner, although that ensemble made their last recording in 1967. This is one such album I'm aware of: https://www.discogs.com/Budapest-Quartet-Dvořák-Quartet-No-6-In-F-Major-Op-96-American-Quintet-No-3-In-E-Flat-Major-Op-97/release/8166439

So many intriguing recordings I'd never known about before! (Let's get Michael Dutton to get his hands on the Dvorak "American" Quartet, too, eh?)

Thanks for digging up that article, @ubertrout. Interesting to know that the argument we're still having goes all the way back to the quad era. Give me "spectacularly artificial"!

 

[ubertrout]

So, I'd preface this by saying that my "wants" are Columbia and RCA Classical Quads as first priority, along with the remainder of the Thomas Mowrey recordings for DG (including the Arthur Fiedler recording of the 1812 overture).

However, as discussed on the other thread, with Vox's classical catalog at Naxos, would they be interested in licensing out the quads? Vox/Turnabout was enormously prolific in the medium, although the performers tendered to be lesser known they knew what they were doing. The recordings were generally done by engineering team of Joanna Nickrenz and Marc J. Aubort, and MoFi's release of a few of these in Quad a decade and a half ago showed how good they could sound: https://positive-feedback.com/Issue14/mofi.htm. If Naxos is willing to license them, especially cheaply, it could be a goldmine.

Also, if Michael Dutton is interested and the tapes exist, I'd be really curious to hear the recordings William Steinberg made with the Pittsburgh Symphony for Command - they were recorded by the team from Fine Recordings - the same team that made the Mercury Living Presence recordings. The works are warhorses - the complete Beethoven and Brahms Symphonies, Rach 2nd Symphony, Bruckner's 7th Symphony, etc. There aren't actually that many though. A fair number of these never had a legitimate CD release (and those that did were mediocre releases in the 80s), and a 2/3 channel SACD would be especially enticing. I also think these recordings would meet substantial interest globally. Not proper surround, but still...

 

[Dillydipper]

Was there ever a quad mix done of Andrew Kazdin and Thomas Shephard's "Everything You Always Wanted To Hear On The Moog (But Were Afraid To Ask For)"? It was one of the more novel fallouts from Wendy Carlos' fluke hit with "Switched On Bach", featuring some clever re-arrangements in the Carlos style (only more adventurous), )as was the program itself (Charbrier's "Espana" that kicks off the album is almost worth the price of admission in itself).

Hearing this bouncing around my rumpus room is one of my favorite pipe dreams.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Amazon is showing one copy [Used/Like New] for $35 + s/h/tax https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-lis...?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=1561009757&sr=1-5

 

[4-earredwonder]

So, I'd preface this by saying that my "wants" are Columbia and RCA Classical Quads as first priority, along with the remainder of the Thomas Mowrey recordings for DG (including the Arthur Fiedler recording of the 1812 overture).

However, as discussed on the other thread, with Vox's classical catalog at Naxos, would they be interested in licensing out the quads? Vox/Turnabout was enormously prolific in the medium, although the performers tendered to be lesser known they knew what they were doing. The recordings were generally done by engineering team of Joanna Nickrenz and Marc J. Aubort, and MoFi's release of a few of these in Quad a decade and a half ago showed how good they could sound: https://positive-feedback.com/Issue14/mofi.htm. If Naxos is willing to license them, especially cheaply, it could be a goldmine.

Also, if Michael Dutton is interested and the tapes exist, I'd be really curious to hear the recordings William Steinberg made with the Pittsburgh Symphony for Command - they were recorded by the team from Fine Recordings - the same team that made the Mercury Living Presence recordings. The works are warhorses - the complete Beethoven and Brahms Symphonies, Rach 2nd Symphony, Bruckner's 7th Symphony, etc. There aren't actually that many though. A fair number of these never had a legitimate CD release (and those that did were mediocre releases in the 80s), and a 2/3 channel SACD would be especially enticing. I also think these recordings would meet substantial interest globally. Not proper surround, but still...

Ubertrout, based on poor sales of Naxos' own aborted BD~A launch [IMO, due to poor choice of titles and mediocre sonics with barely audible ambient rear channels] and MoFi's foray into multichannel with the release of 8 QUADs from the VOX catalogue which didn't sell well, either, doubtful even D~V would be interested in releasing titles from the rich VOX catalog.

 

[ubertrout]

Was there ever a quad mix done of Andrew Kazdin and Thomas Shephard's "Everything You Always Wanted To Hear On The Moog (But Were Afraid To Ask For)"? It was one of the more novel fallouts from Wendy Carlos' fluke hit with "Switched On Bach", featuring some clever re-arrangements in the Carlos style (only more adventurous), )as was the program itself (Charbrier's "Espana" that kicks off the album is almost worth the price of admission in itself).

Hearing this bouncing around my rumpus room is one of my favorite pipe dreams.

Maybe a mix exists? Who knows - doesn't seem to have been released.

Meanwhile, I'd love to hear this:

 

[sjcorne]

Meanwhile, I'd love to hear this:

I actually have that tape - it's another active mix like the Bartok Concerto. Different brass parts all over the place.

 

[ubertrout]

I actually have that tape - it's another active mix like the Bartok Concerto. Different brass parts all over the place.

I don't think it ever got a CD release. Seems a prime candidate, what would be a good coupling?

 

[4-earredwonder]

I don't think it ever got a CD release. Seems a prime candidate, what would be a good coupling?

I'd certainly buy it as a stand alone QUAD SACD ...... a ravishing recording but never heard it in QUAD!

 

[sjcorne]

I don't think it ever got a CD release. Seems a prime candidate, what would be a good coupling?

That's a good question. I don't see any other CBS classic quads credited to Andrew Kazdin and the Columbia Brass Ensemble, so it may have to be a standalone.

I have to say, this tape is a real quad showcase. I'd certainly buy it if Dutton chooses to release it on SACD. Here's waveforms for the whole album:

 

[ubertrout]

That's a good question. I don't see any other CBS classic quads credited to Andrew Kazdin and the Columbia Brass Ensemble, so it may have to be a standalone.

I have to say, this tape is a real quad showcase. I'd certainly buy it if Dutton chooses to release it on SACD. Here's waveforms for the whole album:

View attachment 41135

This would couple pretty well I'd think - also never released on CD as far as I can tell: https://www.discogs.com/The-London-...Leslie-Williams-Bach-For-Band/release/8152747

 

[KevinD9052]

Maybe a mix exists? Who knows - doesn't seem to have been released.

Meanwhile, I'd love to hear this:

One of my favorite SQ disks. Decodes well but always wondered what it sounds like discrete.

 

[JonUrban]

Has anyone suggested that "Monster Concert" SQ/Q8 release? I don't remember it well, other than it was like 10 pianos and the music was stuff I, the non-classical person, recognized. Seems like a natural for D-V.

Still waiting for those two-few "Greatest Hits" classicals..................

 

[surroundophile]

Has anyone suggested that "Monster Concert" SQ/Q8 release? I don't remember it well, other than it was like 10 pianos and the music was stuff I, the non-classical person, recognized. Seems like a natural for D-V.

Still waiting for those two-few "Greatest Hits" classicals..................

See my post #11.

 

[ubertrout]

Has anyone suggested that "Monster Concert" SQ/Q8 release? I don't remember it well, other than it was like 10 pianos and the music was stuff I, the non-classical person, recognized. Seems like a natural for D-V.

Still waiting for those two-few "Greatest Hits" classicals..................

Looks interesting! The tracklist gets my interest: https://www.discogs.com/Eugene-List...stman-School-Of-Music-Piano-F/release/5665771

Not familiar with most of the performers but I'm sure they're good if they're Eastman faculty. Eugene List was a fairly well-known soloist who recorded extensively with budget labels like Westminster and Vox.

 

[ubertrout]

Beethoven's 250th birthday is next year. There was a lot of releases in quad on European labels, including complete cycles from Eugen Jochum and Rudolf Kempe, but Dutton doesn't seem to be working much with Universal/Warner Classics. On Sony-controlled labels there's only really two records I see - Isaac Stern's recording of the Beethoven Violin Concerto with Daniel Barenboim, and Leopold Stokowski conducting Beethoven's 3rd Symphony and the Coriolan Overture. Each is about 50 minutes, so coupling them wouldn't work.
Stern: https://www.discogs.com/Beethoven-S...lin-Concerto-In-D-Major-Op-61/release/8179664
Stokowski: https://www.discogs.com/Beethoven-L...-Symphony-3-Eroica-Coriolan-O/release/8933218