Well, numbers are what pass through HDMI and USB cables, binary code.
The Beatles - Abbey Road 50th Anniversary (5.1 & Dolby Atmos mixes)
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Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:
As in you connect an oscilloscope to the digital output of you player and you will see numbers, as in film leaders?
You would see a wave that represents the numbers, and that can be decoded to the original numbers (if you want to). No reason to believe that all bit-identical discs and all players/transports create exactly the same waveform. No reason to believe that all waveforms (from bit-identical discs) fed to all DACs will produce exactly the same analog output.
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Yes, if you decode the wave(form), buffer the bits in RAM and later reconstruct and reclock the stream. But I'm not sure that is common practice.
I understand what you're saying and assume it probably has some validity in relation to CD. But it can't be too serious or DTS CDs never would have worked as well as they do.
And if the delivered bits aren't identical when playing pure data formats like DVD and Blu-ray, I'd consider the player defective.
As for timing issues, I assume you mean jitter. That's an argument I'm completely unqualified to participate in.
Where in the chain "bits" are delivered?
A wave is fed to the DAC. That wave represents the bits. It is not clear if possible differences in the wave (different "bit-identical" discs, different transport/players) create differences in the analog output of some/most DACs.
Yes, the data stream should be suitable for conversion to the original numbers in all cases, but it is not clear that happens at some point in the chain. And there is the issue of jitter, yes.
I don't know. No one talks about these things. No money in it. Mystery means margins. But I'd be satisfied that different bit-identical discs and any properly working player/transport would be the same for the DAC if the digital stream coming from the disc/player is converted to numbers and buffered in RAM, the stream is reconstructed and reclocked and fed to the DAC (or subsequent blocks of the DAC if internally done).
olgitnorm
701 Club - QQ All-Star
Seriously guys what has any of this got to do with Abbey Road, if you want to argue over bits, numbers and waves maybe start a separate thread? 
Good thing this isn't a poll thread! 
Just had another listening session with this BD with a couple observations:
Playing from my Oppo UDP-205 analog to my Marantz receiver I checked the audio bit rates of both the DTS-HD MASTER AUDIO 5.1 and the Dolby Atmos True HD 7.1 (fold down.) My system only has 5.1 set-up.
***And just in case anyone out there doesn't know: On the Oppo when you hit the "Info" button on the remote it gives a black pop-up header at the top that shows the currently running bit rate; however that's the total bit rate for both the audio and the video. If you press and hold the "Info" button down for a sec. or two a side panel opens up on the left and shows more detailed info, and will show the audio and video bit rates split out from the total.
So I switched back and forth between the two audio formats and noticed the 5.1 was running around 7 MBPS and the Dolby Atmos 7.1 was running at double that at around 14 MBPS. And to my ears the Dolby Atmos 7.1 sounded fuller, but the 5.1 maybe a little punchier. I'll need a lot more listening time in order to tell which I prefer. Also may take the 7.1 rip and combine the rears and rear surrounds into the 5.1 rears and see how that plays at some point.
Another thing that caught my attention was Ringo's snare drumming on "The End" at about 35 seconds in (right speaker) it has that sort of pre-slap brush stroke sound to it or else he may have had some kind of jangly items attached to the snare drum to get that effect. With the improved sonic qualities of this new release, it seems this sort of detail stands out more. Maybe someone here who's a drummer can give an opinion?
Another crazy thing I do occasionally when listening, is to cup the back of my ears with my hands and it seems to bring the sounds in a few dbs louder and can actually be aimed at a certain spot to try and capture more detail. Our ears are truly amazing instruments. Same reason that owls have flat faces and bats have large ears; for sonic detection.
Playing from my Oppo UDP-205 analog to my Marantz receiver I checked the audio bit rates of both the DTS-HD MASTER AUDIO 5.1 and the Dolby Atmos True HD 7.1 (fold down.) My system only has 5.1 set-up.
***And just in case anyone out there doesn't know: On the Oppo when you hit the "Info" button on the remote it gives a black pop-up header at the top that shows the currently running bit rate; however that's the total bit rate for both the audio and the video. If you press and hold the "Info" button down for a sec. or two a side panel opens up on the left and shows more detailed info, and will show the audio and video bit rates split out from the total.
So I switched back and forth between the two audio formats and noticed the 5.1 was running around 7 MBPS and the Dolby Atmos 7.1 was running at double that at around 14 MBPS. And to my ears the Dolby Atmos 7.1 sounded fuller, but the 5.1 maybe a little punchier. I'll need a lot more listening time in order to tell which I prefer. Also may take the 7.1 rip and combine the rears and rear surrounds into the 5.1 rears and see how that plays at some point.
Another thing that caught my attention was Ringo's snare drumming on "The End" at about 35 seconds in (right speaker) it has that sort of pre-slap brush stroke sound to it or else he may have had some kind of jangly items attached to the snare drum to get that effect. With the improved sonic qualities of this new release, it seems this sort of detail stands out more. Maybe someone here who's a drummer can give an opinion?
Another crazy thing I do occasionally when listening, is to cup the back of my ears with my hands and it seems to bring the sounds in a few dbs louder and can actually be aimed at a certain spot to try and capture more detail. Our ears are truly amazing instruments. Same reason that owls have flat faces and bats have large ears; for sonic detection.
milt
800 Club - QQ All-Star
The reason the 5.1 sounded punchier on your system is that it is a 5.1 system and not a 7.1 system or Atmos.
That's funny, I've used the cupped hand thing for many years
Not only for hearing.
Owls are also the only birds with stereoscopic eyesight, like humans.
The neighbor lady next to my little cabin in the woods, had her dachshund picked up and carried away by a large great-horned owl.
Apparently Hootie had to drop Schnaaps, as he showed up at her cabin a couple of days later with some nasty scars on his flanks.
Owls and other birds of prey are the coolest.
That's funny, I've used the cupped hand thing for many years
Not only for hearing.
Owls are also the only birds with stereoscopic eyesight, like humans.
The neighbor lady next to my little cabin in the woods, had her dachshund picked up and carried away by a large great-horned owl.
Apparently Hootie had to drop Schnaaps, as he showed up at her cabin a couple of days later with some nasty scars on his flanks.
Owls and other birds of prey are the coolest.
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I did not know about the info button on the Oppo! I will see if it works on my 105. If it does, I'm sure it will be my next obsession....
milt
800 Club - QQ All-Star
Any Oppo I've owned will show the audio & video bitrate
I’m a guitar/uke player and a fledgling piano player but I’m no drummer. Anyway, I’ll have to take another listen to “The End” to see if my ancient ears hear what Pup heard.
This reminds me of something I read in Geoff Emerick’s book, “Here, There And Everywhere”(a must read for serious Beatles fans). He talks about how Ringo’s slight build forced him to hit the drums extra hard in order to get the sound he wanted. In effect, a physical limitation ended up contributing greatly to his style of drumming. A drummer with the physical build of a, say, John Bonham would not have had to hit his kit as hard to achieve the same effect(although that didn’t stop Bonham from bashing away harder anyway!). Mind you, I love Bonzo’s playing but I couldn’t imagine Ringo playing “When The Levee Breaks.” Giles Martin also credited Ringo’s drumming as the key ingredient that made the “Love” remixes possible.
This reminds me of something I read in Geoff Emerick’s book, “Here, There And Everywhere”(a must read for serious Beatles fans). He talks about how Ringo’s slight build forced him to hit the drums extra hard in order to get the sound he wanted. In effect, a physical limitation ended up contributing greatly to his style of drumming. A drummer with the physical build of a, say, John Bonham would not have had to hit his kit as hard to achieve the same effect(although that didn’t stop Bonham from bashing away harder anyway!). Mind you, I love Bonzo’s playing but I couldn’t imagine Ringo playing “When The Levee Breaks.” Giles Martin also credited Ringo’s drumming as the key ingredient that made the “Love” remixes possible.
Frogmort
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
As a drummer, what you are hearing in the right front channel is sympathetic vibration from the snare drum wires on the bottom head, caused by vibrations from him striking the toms and bass drum. I hear it right after 'Are you gonna be in my dreams, tonight' around 20 seconds through about 35 seconds. It's also possible that there is some bleed-through from an earlier take in which Ringo hit the snare drum more and the toms and bass less than the final take too.
Edit: They could've used a level filter to clean that up, but I'm so glad that they didn't. Stuff like that helps you to feel the actual air in the room.
Frogmort
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
Bit 'o trivia, the guitar solos that start at 54 seconds into The End, feature chronologically: Paul, George, then John, three times through each.
Ranasakawa
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
That was an extraordinary price for that shop. Basement Discs are usually 100% mark-up from the USA price. I have actually never bought a single item from that shop due to their price policy. Maybe they have finally come to sense?
windhoek
The Phoolosopher
I've been following this thread with great interest (I think I've read most if not all posts so far) and it's great to hear Giles has pulled another rabbit out of the proverbial hat. I use an OPPO 103D so it's a wee bit worrying to hear the blu ray might be somewhat buggy. Anyway, I'm holding out for a discount as I'm only interested in the multichannel mix - I bought the new vinyl version for stereo playback.
doctors11
Active Member
Well my wife surprised me with an early birthday present last night...yup!!! We poured a glass of wine and figured we'd listen to a few songs. Familiar story eh? So when the entire disc was done I wiped the tears from my eyes (literally) and thanked her profusely. Wow!
So I haven't read through this whole thread and being kind of new to all this I have a quick question. When I hit play it brought up the menu. I noticed it defaulted to stereo. I tried arrow right to get to the audio section to change it and nothing happened. I hit the audio button on my Oppo 203 and it did nothing. The only thing that worked was to continuously hit arrow down to scroll through all the songs before landing on the audio menu. I also wanted to compare stereo with 5.1 but that was difficult because of having to go through all this again. There must be an easier way?
Thanks!
So I haven't read through this whole thread and being kind of new to all this I have a quick question. When I hit play it brought up the menu. I noticed it defaulted to stereo. I tried arrow right to get to the audio section to change it and nothing happened. I hit the audio button on my Oppo 203 and it did nothing. The only thing that worked was to continuously hit arrow down to scroll through all the songs before landing on the audio menu. I also wanted to compare stereo with 5.1 but that was difficult because of having to go through all this again. There must be an easier way?
Thanks!
I believe your emotions are similar to what many here felt upon hearing this; and nope, don’t think there’s an easier way to change settings. Kind of nostalgic in a clunky way.
Well you can up arrow from Come Together and it will go straight to the audio options. Once you've got it playing in 5.1 you can move between stereo and 5.1 (hitting 'enter' as needed) and it will change mixes on the fly.
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