WHO’S NEXT/LIFEHOUSE Box set coming in September 2023 (STEVEN WILSON DOLBY ATMOS & 5.1 MIXES CONFIRMED!!)

[sjcorne]

I was pretty bummed to see that both stereo mixes (SW’s and the original) on the Blu-Ray were hit with some unnecessary limiting.

Fortunately, no such damage has been done to the surround mixes.

 

[mrcond]

Quite a wide variety of opinions on the Atmos mix to be sure. Obviously anyone's take, while completely valid to each individual, is highly subjective and system-dependent. I had a very positive initial reaction after a few run-throughs, but after reading more negative takes on the Atmos mix, I wanted to go back and confirm I wasn't missing anything. Specifically, I focused in on the drums, bass and vocals on 'Baba O'Riley'. One thing I found going back to the blu-ray and switching between the stereo, 5.1 and Atmos mixes is that the 5.1 and Atmos mixes are quieter than the stereo mix, so I had to boost the volume about 4db on my AVR to get the balance about right. Once I did that, I found the drums to have the same impact across the mixes, the bass to be about the same (maybe a hair more impactful on the stereo, but I wouldn't say it was lacking on the surround mixes), and the vocal impact very similar as well - certainly not lost in reverb on my system. That all being said, the most striking thing to me was how bringing the various elements such as synth/organ, guitars etc. out into the room just made the experience so much better for me, and the stereo fell flat against the front wall. That is what drew me to the world of surround mixes in the first place. The Atmos is for sure my go-to way of hearing this album going forward. (Now 'Bargain', on the other hand, does exhibit those negative traits - the Penteo upmix is an echo-y mess on my system and pales in comparison to the straight stereo.)

 

[jefe1]

Finally on late Saturday night a USPS notification that my box set is being delivered on Wednesday
So for anyone else who bought from Rarewaves just wait a little longer.
As far as the condition it arrives in I will have to wait

One observation since so many have received listened and posted their opinions on the contents and mixes I almost feel like I don't need to listen to this now and am ready to anticipate the next release like the new Quadios....Who's next indeed.

 

[Stephen W Tayler]

There's little point to it, but an unintended benefit that results is that with a full range signal, the sub frequencies would be in-phase with the rest of the mix. Many mixes have low-passed LFE content without accounting for phase delay.

Funnily enough I have had to address a similar observation/complaint on a recent Moody Blues remix of mine.

From my point of view (not familiar with SW’s workflow) when mixing in Pro Tools any audio sent to the LFE channel is actually full range. Some mastering/encoding formats do actually filter that, but if it is not mastered and therefore sent as a lossless file it can actually be full range like this, even though it is actually intended ONLY to be sent to the subwoofer.

So some enthusiasts like to investigate this audio and listen to it in isolation, but it this not an error and not intended to be deconstructed or listened to like this.

However as a result I personally have decided to ensure that LFE content in future projects be filtered so there is no confusion. I am sure I will be discussing this with SW when we hook up!

SWTx.

 

[AYanguas]

However as a result I personally have decided to ensure that LFE content in future projects be filtered so there is no confusion. I am sure I will be discussing this with SW when we hook up!

@Stephen W Tayler, as far as I know and said some posts above, a low pass filter, when applied, cause delays in the signal, more significantly in low frequencies than in high frequencies.

So I guess that if the software tools does not compensate for that, one should manually put in phase with the significant bass (normally the front channels) the filtered LFE.

It would be good that someone like you, working on this firsthand, could shed some light on this debate.

 

[Stephen W Tayler]

@Stephen W Tayler, as far as I know and said some posts above, a low pass filter, when applied, cause delays in the signal, more significantly in low frequencies than in high frequencies.

So I guess that if the software tools does not compensate for that, one should manually put in phase with the significant bass (normally the front channels) the filtered LFE.

It would be good that someone like you, working on this firsthand, could shed some light on this debate.

All I can say is that if I apply EQ (ie a low pass filter) to one channel of my mix buss - there will be no actual delay. It has always been simpler and not an issue how this has been presented in the past, but if some people insist on analysing and deconstructing the files in such a way..... what can I say.

To me I just hope people accept mixes as a listening experience as intended by the production personnel, rather than an intellectual or technical exercise!!

 

[AYanguas]

All I can say is that if I apply EQ (ie a low pass filter) to one channel of my mix buss - there will be no actual delay. It has always been simpler and not an issue how this has been presented in the past,

I read that this automation on the software possibly was implemented around 2005.

... but if some people insist on analysing and deconstructing the files in such a way..... what can I say.

To me I just hope people accept mixes as a listening experience as intended by the production personnel, rather than an intellectual or technical exercise!!

You are right. We should enjoy much more when listening to the productions you and others make for us. I'm in the way of this change

But as some of us are somehow "freak technicians", we also enjoy spending time calibrating the home cinema, looking at the waveforms, because we have learned some tools and know how to do it, etc...

 

[jimfisheye]

'Old school' sub use is to double send the tracks you want to the sub. Meaning send to the sub while still sending to the main mix bus. Your main speakers roll off on the bottom where they do. Your sub is wired with a crossover to low pass. You send the full signal to it but you only end up hearing a sub bass extension over your mains speakers. Protools built in panner is in fact still aimed at this workflow.

The consumer has a similar setup with their low passed sub. The listener with a 'high top' system speaker managing the mains bass to their sub is still good.

The outlier listener who speaker manages the Lfe channel to their front mains (sans extra sub) will be in for a surprise, however!

The listener with the kickin bass on their mains might be hearing the sub bass doubled up vs what was intended.

'Modern' sub use is to crossover eq split anything you want to have in the sub channel and not rely on random subwoofer low pass filters or where someone's mains speakers might happen to roll off. This tends to work on all systems.

This business of finding releases with out of phase (ie out of alignment) Lfe track baffles me! I'm always interested in the nuts and bolts of things and telltale artifacts from different gear/systems. What the heck is in use that can accidentally lead to this?!

 

[paligap]

There's little point to it, but an unintended benefit that results is that with a full range signal, the sub frequencies would be in-phase with the rest of the mix. Many mixes have low-passed LFE content without accounting for phase delay.

Interesting. If that's the case, I wish all mixes were like this because that would eliminate the out of phase LFE issues with some/many/all mixes. With bass management, including LFE LPF, it's not like my subwoofers will try to play full range material.

 

[Tres Discrete]

Maybe this has been addressed before…but has anyone noticed that the vocal on “Getting In Tune” on the Atmos mix starts quite low in volume then jumps up considerably after the first few lines?
Is this an error?
Or maybe a gimmick - ie the vocals themselves are getting in tune?
Sounds odd to my ears

 

[ar surround]

Maybe this has been addressed before…but has anyone noticed that the vocal on “Getting In Tune” on the Atmos mix starts quite low in volume then jumps up considerably after the first few lines?
Is this an error?
Or maybe a gimmick - ie the vocals themselves are getting in tune?
Sounds odd to my ears

Isn't it great...finally being able to comment on all the flaws we perceive after waiting 52 years to get a multi-channel mix of this album? I love it!!!!

 

[Clement]

Finally on late Saturday night a USPS notification that my box set is being delivered on Wednesday
So for anyone else who bought from Rarewaves just wait a little longer.
As far as the condition it arrives in I will have to wait

One observation since so many have received listened and posted their opinions on the contents and mixes I almost feel like I don't need to listen to this now and am ready to anticipate the next release like the new Quadios....Who's next indeed.

You and me both!

The wait will soon be over and i'll TURN UP!

 

[Tres Discrete]

Isn't it great...finally being able to comment on all the flaws we perceive after waiting 52 years to get a multi-channel mix of this album? I love it!!!!

Am I wrong?
Maybe it is just my system?
Everything else sounds fine…

 

[rontoon]

Am I wrong?
Maybe it is just my system?
Everything else sounds fine…

I don't hear what you're hearing. The Atmos mix sounds fine, to me properly balanced.

 

[Tres Discrete]

I don't hear what you're hearing. The Atmos mix sounds fine, to me properly balanced.

Specifically at the beginning of “Getting in Tune”?
Hmmm…
I wonder if the crossover on my center speaker is too high (120 Hz)
Maybe if the first couple of lines are in a lower register, they are being pushed to the subwoofers?
I’m at work & can’t check…but maybe that’s it if other people are not hearing what I am hearing?
Amateur sleuthing for sure…

 

[humprof]

Hoping that this shows up on the kindle/ComiXology store… would love to check it out… on my iPad without having to buy the whole box

Looks like you and I will get our wish. (Well, maybe. Hardback standalone edition is coming in December, anyway; maybe a Comixology version will follow. And paperback? I still like reading comics better in print, anyway.)
https://www.cbr.com/pete-townshend-life-house-image-comics/https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/pete-townshends-life-house-pete-townshend/1144053624

 

[Clement]

My Monolith made it! I shan't open it until @jefe1 receives his copy–in solidarity . . .

 

[jefe1]

Well mine is scheduled to arrive Wednesday go ahead and imbibe now......

 

[edisonbaggins]

My Monolith made it! I shan't open it until @jefe1 receives his copy–in solidarity . . .
View attachment 96647

If that's a 3D puzzle of the Moon (or any moon), then well-played.

 

[H.A.L.]

Maybe this has been addressed before…but has anyone noticed that the vocal on “Getting In Tune” on the Atmos mix starts quite low in volume then jumps up considerably after the first few lines?
Is this an error?
Or maybe a gimmick - ie the vocals themselves are getting in tune?
Sounds odd to my ears

Just judging from an old memory on an old stereo turntable, that would be about right!