70'S QUAD FM SYNDICATIONS AND SIMULCASTS-OTHER THAN BBC, KBFH

[Mark Anderson]

Proctor and Bergman -Live From The "Bottom Line"
Don't know for certain whether or not this is or contains Sansui's QS encoding.-However---
Live From The Bottom Line was a quad broadcast out of N.Y. and had simulcast QS programs and more importantly was in syndication throughout the mid (74 ?) to late 70's and possibly included early 1980-s ..

Thanks for the tip on this one, do you have any info of where it was mentioned that some of these shows were broadcast in Quad?

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Thanks for the tip on this one, do you have any info of where it was mentioned that some of these shows were broadcast in Quad?

Apart from the missing bottom to that post I have an audio magazine article (75) naming all the shows currently then , broadcasting in quad.

I'll see if I can dig it up and post it.

 

[Mark Anderson]

I have updated the Quad Radio list and still working on bits and pieces but for those interested you can review it here

http://www.surrounddiscography.com/quaddisc/quadradi-TEMP.htm

I have not included anything about the Bottom Line broadcasts as nothing has turned up to provide a reference too.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

It would seem that my searching has opened "a can of worms" at best for The Bottom Line broadcasts.


A) did they encode broadcasts in binaural ? YES .
B) did they use SQ as well ? Possibly, yes.
C) did they use QS encoding ? Maybe .

D) any combination or all of the above ? Anythings possible.

So I find (so far ) they mixed broadcast in binaural ......75 -78 (sometime)

 

[fizzywiggs41]

This info from "Modern Recording " 1978.(re prior post)


SQ. ??? KBFH ???




They reference KBFH bottom line broadcast which is to be binaural , but perhaps also SQ . As that seems to be the promoting matrix for Biscuit .


I also (not included ) have a second article that goes into detail about promo in binaural as an experiment (76), from Audio Mag by Edward Tatnell Canby .



Anyways I have an article or mention from Sansui that many local stations in NYC were using QS and they changed up the fm dial to listen.
So at best .....an inference ....
Other than CBS affiliates many would be QS , but.....who knows.

Confused yet ?

I sure am.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Well now I could and should mention that both Sansui and CBS promoted use of their respective matrices for binaural , and reverse .

The brain and our hearing act as a natural decoder when the appropriate headphones are utilized , regardless of the type of quad matrix in use.

This both Bauer and Ito both published (AES)...in regards to binaural listening . (Bauer-CBS , ITO -Sansui )


So I'm perplexed by this info and some others should be as well , so much as (so far) I've managed to dig up info on that is.


So that's what I've found to date , about 4 or 6 hours research and want to stop now .

May revisit more info from Sansui's 4ch Scene at a later date to see if I have more info , specifically on Bottom Line.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

I have updated the Quad Radio list and still working on bits and pieces but for those interested you can review it here

http://www.surrounddiscography.com/quaddisc/quadradi-TEMP.htm

I have not included anything about the Bottom Line broadcasts as nothing has turned up to provide a reference too.

A WISE CHOICE .

 

[Mark Anderson]

Man....I don't know if I need to dig out my JVC BN-5 Biphonic Processor or the Tate II or the Surround Master!

 

[fizzywiggs41]

It was never actually an SQ quad. The concerts were recorded by an engineer at XRT in 4 channel. They were never available as an encoded SQ.

Sorry I missed what you wrote back then.

So your saying all the WXRT Unconcert were Discrete recordings , Bob ?

That's strange because my 1978 recording Genesis in Chicago on cassette has the announcer state halfway through " Your listening to a live SQ recording ".




Weird huh ?

 

[J. PUPSTER]

I seem to remember there are at least one or more other threads around here somewhere about various KBFH shows also-but it's been awhile :

 

[quadaholic]

Sorry I missed what you wrote back then.

So your saying all the WXRT Unconcert were Discrete recordings , Bob ?

That's strange because my 1978 recording Genesis in Chicago on cassette has the announcer state halfway through " Your listening to a live SQ recording ".




Weird huh ?

Fizzy, from what I have been able to figure out, most of Kens shows were initially recorded to 4 track tape and then Ken would prepare an SQ two track tape for broadcast. Supposedly a lot of the SQ two track tapes have walked away from XRT. The big question is how much of the 4 track stuff is still on hand.
There was a guy there named Tim Powell who might be able to shed more light on what XRT still has, but I'm not sure if he's still working there. There has been a good deal of change at XRT over the last couple of years.
The Genesis show was broadcast in SQ as it happened, but even then it was the four outputs of the tape machine run to the SQ encoder.

 

[gvl_guy]

I lived in the NYC area in the 70s. I remember a station that changed format to progressive rock and took the call letters WQIV (as in Q for quad and IV, Roman numeral for 4. They went after the other progressive rock station, WNEW which had been doing that format for years. But "quad" was better, right? They never told you what kind of quad it was. It was more a marketing thing than actually broadcasting in quadraphonic.

Just like when CDs came out. A radio station I worked for used "now playing all CDs" as one of our liners....but the CDs were from some company called Century. They were just made from tapes. Some of the songs had so much hiss on them! It was all about the marketing.

Edit: I stand corrected. I guess WQIV broadcast in QS. I found, on-line, the format change audio and they mention QS. I had never heard that back when I was listening on a regular basis. You can hear the change at about the 9 minute mark.
https://formatchange.com/104-3-wncn-new-york-becomes-rock-wqiv/

 

[quadaholic]

I lived in the NYC area in the 70s. I remember a station that changed format to progressive rock and took the call letters WQIV (as in Q for quad and IV, Roman numeral for 4. They went after the other progressive rock station, WNEW which had been doing that format for years. But "quad" was better, right? They never told you what kind of quad it was. It was more a marketing thing than actually broadcasting in quadraphonic.

Just like when CDs came out. A radio station I worked for used "now playing all CDs" as one of our liners....but the CDs were from some company called Century. They were just made from tapes. Some of the songs had so much hiss on them! It was all about the marketing.

Edit: I stand corrected. I guess WQIV broadcast in QS. I found, on-line, the format change audio and they mention QS. I had never heard that back when I was listening on a regular basis. You can hear the change at about the 9 minute mark.
https://formatchange.com/104-3-wncn-new-york-becomes-rock-wqiv/

gvl,
WQIV represents another station where you wonder "so where did all the tapes go?" During their short life, they did a few live broadcasts that would be great to hear. Apparently they were originally a classical station, and eventually the classical fans were able to get that format back. There was apparently an on air incident that caused trouble for them, and also I read (on Mark Andersons page maybe) William F. Buckley may have even been involved in getting QIV taken down.

 

[gvl_guy]

gvl,
WQIV represents another station where you wonder "so where did all the tapes go?" During their short life, they did a few live broadcasts that would be great to hear. Apparently they were originally a classical station, and eventually the classical fans were able to get that format back. There was apparently an on air incident that caused trouble for them, and also I read (on Mark Andersons page maybe) William F. Buckley may have even been involved in getting QIV taken down.

WQIV died in ratings. The WNCN people were a thorn in their side, but it was really about ratings. Anyway, NYC already had another classical station, WQXR. It's not like they didn't have anywhere else to turn.

 

[quadaholic]

WQIV died in ratings. The WNCN people were a thorn in their side, but it was really about ratings. Anyway, NYC already had another classical station, WQXR. It's not like they didn't have anywhere else to turn.

gvl,

Good to know, and thank you for clearing that up for me. I'm surprised there wasn't more interest in just the music separate from the quad, but that's obviously my own bias creeping in.

 

[gvl_guy]

gvl,

Good to know, and thank you for clearing that up for me. I'm surprised there wasn't more interest in just the music separate from the quad, but that's obviously my own bias creeping in.

I always wondered how they could actually be broadcasting in quad when most of the stuff they had was just stereo anyway.

 

[quadaholic]

I always wondered how they could actually be broadcasting in quad when most of the stuff they had was just stereo anyway.

I think this is one case where they must have had an encoder at the station to run everything through, as opposed to other stations where they would have broadcast things in stereo that were all ready encoded. that's my guess, anyway.

 

[gvl_guy]

I think this is one case where they must have had an encoder at the station to run everything through, as opposed to other stations where they would have broadcast things in stereo that were all ready encoded. that's my guess, anyway.

So, they are "encoding" stereo to quad? Probably using a synthesize mode on your decoder with a stereo station would do about the same.

 

[quadaholic]

So, they are "encoding" stereo to quad? Probably using a synthesize mode on your decoder with a stereo station would do about the same.

That's what I expect, although I'm sure there are some folks on here that know this stuff way better than I. There were supposedly other stations in the country broadcasting in quad, at least for a time, and I have to assume that there would have to be some stereo stuff that had to be "fudged" up to four channels, as there couldn't have been enough encoded material to broadcast day in day out. Kind of like the early days of MTV, where they started with something like 70 video clips and crossed their fingers that the industry would catch up to them.

 

[Marcsten]

Well you guys are getting me excited. I loved the KBFH as a teenager and listened to it often. At the time I had a Radio Shack basic SQ decoder but for some reason was under the impression they had broadcast in QS. My bad, but the decoder I had wasn't going to do much, and who knows what the phasing was like by the time it reached my receiver. In 1976 I made a recording of a show that was referred to as 'The Best of the Biscuits' eating me to assume it was a rebroadcast of an earlier recording. It was Linda Ronstadt. Now me being into quad and it being 1976, it was recorded onto a Maxell 8 Track tape. Again, its terrifying to think what the phasing was like, but I am fairly sure that I still have that tape (don't judge me) so now I am thinking I want to dig it out and run it through my Audionics S&IC. What could go wrong?