Dolby Surround (2014) vs Dolby Pro Logic II

[Owen Smith]

Are there various versions of DTS Neural:X (depending on when the A/V receiver was built or when the software was last updated)?

DTS Neo:6 had multiple versions that DTS were always very tight lipped about, so it may be equally difficult to get solid information about any Neural:X changes.

Any particular adjustment setting for the DSU decoder/fake surround creator that results in good original Dolby Surround decoding?

There are supposed to be Music and Movie options but they do nothing on my amp. The Arcam amps have plenty of bugs and this could easily be another one, I can't blame Dolby for this.

 

[MidiMagic]

Have been trying to make some sense out of this thread, but i think there may an incosistancy in the naming of standard dolby encoded material, Dolby Stereo and Dolby Surround?

As to a source of DPL II music, for some strange reason the music business didn't replace DS I with DPL II, i doubt too many would have noticed, and when equipment was updated it would have been more the worthwhile.

It does seem as though you'll need to get hold of the soundtrack from one of the DPL II encoded Playstation games, where it seems as though Sony were the only company to employ it. Lost oppertunity i think.

They did not change the encoding at all from the original Dolby Stereo to the last real Dolby PLII.

 

[Owen Smith]

They did not change the encoding at all from the original Dolby Stereo to the last real Dolby PLII.

That's my understanding too. Same encoding all the way through, and improved decoding from Dolby Surround through Pro Logic and finally PLII.

 

[Francis Drake]

They did not change the encoding at all from the original Dolby Stereo to the last real Dolby PLII.

This is what i mean by inconsistuences. The use of 'Dolby Stereo' should be used for encoded audio tracks of films, when the commercial version was released it was named 'Dolby Surround'.
It is important to use the correct term so others know exactly what the discussion is about.

 

[ssully]

That is correct.

I don't think DTS can override an AVR's bass management (speaker size) settings, if there are any in place.

 

[ssully]

DTS Neo:6 had multiple versions that DTS were always very tight lipped about, so it may be equally difficult to get solid information about any Neural:X changes.

There are supposed to be Music and Movie options but they do nothing on my amp. The Arcam amps have plenty of bugs and this could easily be another one, I can't blame Dolby for this.

Music and Movie modes are not part of DSU. They were deprecated along with DPL II. The only known user-adjustable parameter for DSU is Center Spread (and even that was taken away, for a time, until consumer outcry brought it back).

If your Arcam does not offer DPL II, and its manual says there are still Dolby Music and Movie modes, it is in error, or Arcam has added some other functionality on top of DSU.

 

[Owen Smith]

Music and Movie modes are not part of DSU. They were deprecated along with DPL II. The only known user-adjustable parameter for DSU is Center Spread (and even that was taken away, for a time, until consumer outcry brought it back).

If your Arcam does not offer DPL II, and its manual says there are still Dolby Music and Movie modes, it is in error, or Arcam has added some other functionality on top of DSU.

My Arcam AVR31 has a Dolby processing menu with options Off, Music, Movie and Night. I have it Off all the time. I've tried Music and Movie and it makes no immediately noticeable difference. I've assumed Night does dynamic range compression but haven't tried it. The manual just says it optimises playback for Music, Movies or playing at Night or some pointless waffle along those lines.

 

[kfbkfb]

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...bs-dd-5-1-ds-downmix-process.31010/#post-5807
Explains the 2 "flavors" of Dolby Surround encoding, although my old Pioneer VSX-D514 A/V receiver provides original DPL and both DPL 2 modes, I find that original DPL provides a better surround sound effect from (original, not downmixed) DS encoded TV shows and movies.


Kirk Bayne

 

[ssully]

FWIW, I need to stop writing/whining that DPLII is extinct, since yesterday I helped a friend pick out a 'budget' Denon in the current line, the AVR S670H, a 5.2 channel model, which thus doesn't support Atmos, and surprise, still has good old DPL II (and plain Audyssey MultiEQ instead of MultiEQ XT, which is plenty good enough for his setup).

 

[Wunlow]

That seems to be the case with current non-Atmos receivers .. at least the one's I have run across.

 

[Owen Smith]

That seems to be the case with current non-Atmos receivers .. at least the one's I have run across.

Paying Dolby for an Atmos decoder also gets the manufacturer a Dolby Surround licence bundled. They can pay for a DPL II licence as well if they want, but no manufacture does. But without an Atmos licence the manufacturers tend to go old school and pay for DPL II. It may even not be possible to licence Dolby Surround on its own without Atmos.

 

[MidiMagic]

Paying Dolby for an Atmos decoder also gets the manufacturer a Dolby Surround licence bundled. They can pay for a DPL II licence as well if they want, but no manufacture does. But without an Atmos licence the manufacturers tend to go old school and pay for DPL II. It may even not be possible to licence Dolby Surround on its own without Atmos.

There is no need to license Dolby Pro Logic or Pro logic II. The patents are expired.

ANYBODY can use them. That's why Dolby doesn't want to decode them anymore.

 

[Owen Smith]

There is no need to license Dolby Pro Logic or Pro logic II. The patents are expired.

ANYBODY can use them. That's why Dolby doesn't want to decode them anymore.

The patents may have expired but that doesn't let you steal Dolby's decoders. It merely means you can write your own and claim DPL II compatibility without paying a licence.

 

[MidiMagic]

The patents may have expired but that doesn't let you steal Dolby's decoders. It merely means you can write your own and claim DPL II compatibility without paying a license.

The Dolby decoders would have their own patents, When they expire, you CAN copy the decoder design. Of course the chips they used might not be available anymore.

On the other hand, the trademark has a much longer life. So you might copy the circuitry, but not be able to call it Dolby Pro Logic. The SQ and QS trademarks are still in force.

 

[kfbkfb]

~40 years ago, several big name A/V manufacturers made standalone decoders that were fairly close to "official" Dolby Surround decoders but different enough to avoid infringement, seems like it's time to resurrect these workaround designs and put them in new A/V receivers.

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/threads/pioneer-sp-101-synthesized-surround-processor.31727/

Kirk Bayne

 

[MidiMagic]

Here's why I will need Dolby Pro Logic for a long time:
- Most of the DVDs I own and all of the VHS I own are in Dolby Surrounds.
- Most of the TV channels I watch are putting Dolby Surround in the stereo TV.
- Most of the FM stations I listen to have Dolby Surround in commercials.

 

[kfbkfb]

I find the no logic Hafler/DynaQuad speaker matrix works well for decoding Dolby Surround content (in some cases, my Blu-ray player is creating a Dolby Surround downmix from DD/DTS 5.1).

The movies I'm time shifting from Hulu with VHS HiFi are (apparently) downmixed to surround sound and have good surround effects with speaker matrix decoding.

This is the first I've heard about DS encoded ads on FM.

Maybe a speaker switchbox maker could make a box that switches from 11 speaker Atmos (for example) to 3 speaker Hafler (no need for an internal decoder in AV receivers).


Kirk Bayne

 

[Francis Drake]

Here's why I will need Dolby Pro Logic for a long time:
- Most of the FM stations I listen to have Dolby Surround in commercials.

You know this how?

 

[MidiMagic]

You know this how?

I am listening to it with a DS decoder.

I don't know of anything else around that would have been used.

 

[Owen Smith]

I am listening to it with a DS decoder.

I don't know of anything else around that would have been used.

Just because things appear in the rears does not mean the broadcast is deliberately DS encoded. It's like playing stereo music through QS, you get something just not what was intended.