Genesis 1970-1975 Nov.10/11 2008

[solaris]

well at CDN$ 245.99 for something listed as Genesis 1970-1975 [Import] [Box set] [Enhanced] [Best of] [Hybrid SACD] I guess I'll stay DTS then

 

[DennisMabry]

I returned my CD/DVD domestic box to Amazon.com with clear instructions that the wrong item was sent. What do they do? Immediately dispatch a replacement of the same wrong item, completely ignoring my comments!

I'll spare the details of my hour-long conversation with Amazon.com but the reality is they are so utterly incompetent when it comes to customer service that the only way to achieve satisfaction is to tell them exactly how to do their job and then demand that they do it.

For those of you who, like me, pre-ordered the import SACD box and received the domestic CD box, here is what you need to do:

1. Call Amazon.com at 1-866-216-1072.

2. Point them to your original order and ask them to note how the description says "[Hybrid SACD] [Import]".

3. Ask them to follow the link from your original order and ask them to note that the item that comes up does NOT say "[Hybrid SACD] [Import]".

4. Explain to them that this is called "bait-and-switch" and is an illegal practice.

5. Provide them with the ASIN of the actual item you ordered. In this case, the ASIN is B001CBW1B2. Don't trust that they can find it on their own because they cannot.

6. Emphasize that THIS is the item that you pre-ordered and is the item you expect to receive. Note that you pre-ordered it for a cost of $154.98 (or whatever price you originally had) and DEMAND that they give you this price on ASIN B001CBW1B2.

7. If they give you any grief, demand to speak with a supervisor.

8. Do NOT get off the phone until you receive e-mail confirmation of your corrected order. There is NO personal accountability at Amazon.com and they will absolutely refuse to give you any way to contact the same person who promises to correct your situation. ANY contact with Amazon.com requires starting "from scratch". Sure, they keep notes in their system, but the information is all but useless and invariably serves no purpose other than to contribute to elevated confusion on the issue. Amazon.com needs to instantiate personal accountability for resolution issues! That's just plain good business, but I digress.

So, here I sit with my original pre-order intact. It's just downright pathetic that I had to fight tooth-and-nail to get here. It wouldn't be so bad if this were an isolated incident, but in my experience this is business-as-usual for Amazon.com.

Anyhow, I hope this information proves useful for anyone hoping to rectify their own identical situation.

Thanks Cai for the tips!

I too, received the Rhino box set of CD + DVD. I opted to return for a refund and cancel my order through Amazon as they don't seem to have a clue.

I have re-ordered through Music Direct. It does not specify PAL or NTSC but this was one of the reasons I purchased an OPPO 980H so whichever one they send (if any) it shouldn't make much difference.

What a frustrating mess this all is!

Dennis

 

[user 1679]

Mine arrived today - of course it was the Rhino DTS version. I called Amazon.ca and explained (as others have) and that I wanted the SACD version for the price they advertised it for. I didn't get too far and was offered a refund and a $25 credit. At this point with all the confusion plus additional wait time I decided to just take the $25 and keep the DTS set.

 

[timbre4]

Well this morning I got an email from Wherehouse.com that it was no longer available (as that item #) so my order has now been cancelled. I noticed that ElusiveDisc could ship me SACD/DVD PAL box right now @ $229. I have a PAL capable player in the officer so it's tempting. The DTS DVDs could NOT be played in the living room setup. SIGH....

As a long time loyal Genesis fan I am absolutely tired of this cluster!!! It was supposed to be out months ago, but they pushed it back so as not to compete with the Genesis Rome DVD from 2007 tour. That should have provided them with additional cover to fix any issues that could delay meeting the chosen date.

After waiting over 4 years since Lamb was announced, this is a total fucking ball drop on Virgin's part if you ask me.

So I'm not going to order anything until this needless confusion subsides.

 

[BananaSlug]

I noticed that ElusiveDisc could ship me SACD/DVD PAL box right now @ $229.

Amazon.co.uk would work out cheaper and I've always has good/fast service from them. Still sitting on the fence here, DVD-V or SACD...

 

[peterzach]

Well this morning I got an email from Wherehouse.com that it was no longer available (as that item #) so my order has now been cancelled. I noticed that ElusiveDisc could ship me SACD/DVD PAL box right now @ $229. I have a PAL capable player in the officer so it's tempting. The DTS DVDs could NOT be played in the living room setup. SIGH....

As a long time loyal Genesis fan I am absolutely tired of this cluster!!! It was supposed to be out months ago, but they pushed it back so as not to compete with the Genesis Rome DVD from 2007 tour. That should have provided them with additional cover to fix any issues that could delay meeting the chosen date.

After waiting over 4 years since Lamb was announced, this is a total fucking ball drop on Virgin's part if you ask me.

So I'm not going to order anything until this needless confusion subsides.

Tim I feel your pain as well as here has been my experience with ordering boxsets.

Ordered the first boxset(sacd/ntsc) from hmv japan as price wasn't to bad(around 130 dollars Canadian).
Next boxset wasn't my favorites so I bought the 4 albums individually(sacd,pal) and was going to try and wait for a good deal to get boxset for the bonus disc.
Well I tried for the 25.99(Amazon.com) deal and we all know where that went, 8 months of emails etc only to find out they just say,"Sorry not available any more".
So recently I ordered the boxset(used Rhino set) from a ebay seller for $58 dollars US and 2 months later and no delivery, file a dispute(did get money back just in last week,thankfully) but still no boxset(only trying to get for the bonus disc).
So now we are onto boxset 3(my favorite time period). I order from amazon.com for $147 canadian(taxes included) and avoided the bait and switch as made a phone call a few weeks ago where they did change my order link back to sacd's instead of the Rhino set but now the delivery is set for Dec.23rd(am I just a sucker for more pain as this almost seems like boxset 2 scenario).

So 'Yes' agreed Tim, this totally sucks. I don't want to just throw away my hard earned money that's why I'm not doing the over $200 dollar orders, I thought order for $147 dollars was already enough.
Am I just being stupid about this as i could do a Rhino order but I'm just wondering if Rhino has got some kind of embargo that is not allowing North American sellers sell the import(sacd) because it directly competes with the domestic order. I want to support sacd/dvd audio stuff that's partly why I don't want to order the Rhino, also the Sacd's do sound better to my ears.

What happened to the days where you could just go to a local record store and order exactly what you want(Oh yah they are all closed or closing).


end of rant.


peter

 

[Lucanu]

Just a question out of topic....could a HDMI dvd player play those PAL dvds?
I live in Italy and any DVD player can play both NTSC/PAL discs (region 2 or free)...just a curiosity

 

[El Guapo]

Hi Lucano,

Just a question out of topic....could a HDMI dvd player play those PAL dvds?
I live in Italy and any DVD player can play both NTSC/PAL discs (region 2 or free)...just a curiosity

The HDMI capability of the player has nothing to do with this. It entirely depends on the capability of the player (and possibly of the processing chain afterwards) to cope with 50Hz video material. (The terms PAL and NTSC are a bit misleading because they really only describe the color coding standard, and neither of them is actually encoded on the DVD, where component colors are used; what really matters is the resolution and frame rate which is in the US and Japan 480 visible scan lines at 59.997Hz interlaced and in Europe 596 visible scan lines at 50Hz interlaced. But I'll keep calling it PAL and NTSC just because it is more convenient and everybody uses these terms in this context.)

All DVD players worldwide can play back the "NTSC" resolution, but in the US there are many models that are not capable of processing the "PAL" resolution. I think this is a conscious choice of the manufacturers, because the hardware today should easily be able to handle both (even the US model of the PS3 can not play back "PAL" discs, even when they are code free; the European model is of course capable of this).

And even if the player can do it, it would usually output it that way (with 50Hz); so unless the TV can cope with it you can't play it either. Many players that can process the "PAL" resolution can also be set up to convert the video to the "NTSC" resolution; and then every TV can display it - but frame rate conversions usually come at a very high price regarding picture quality (which in case of audio-only discs is not important, though).

Best regards,
Oliver

 

[Lucanu]

It's weird in any case...thanks Oliver

 

[daved64]

I am asking you to stop posting pictures please. This forum is about discussing multichannel music. It is not a Genesis fanboy site. Have some respect for those on dial up. You're making it hard to navigate the thread. Never mind the fact that some might want to see the pics for themselves when they get the set.

 

[Bob Squires Jr]

I ordered mine from HMV Japan for around $165.00.
It's supposed to be SACD/NTSC...
it's on it's way as I write... lets see what I wind up with.

-Bob

 

[Cai Campbell]

Most of the pictures posted by Ponkine are dead links. Why bother? I'm curious what the surround mixes are like. The visuals are inconsequential.

 

[splinter7]

I ordered mine from HMV Japan for around $165.00.
It's supposed to be SACD/NTSC...
it's on it's way as I write... lets see what I wind up with.

-Bob

Boy! You got a deal if it is SACD. HMV Japan lists it at Y20,403 which converts it to $210 USD + $25 shipping. They sent me an email that stated my pre-order was ready to ship but they needed me to confirm the increased shipping price. I couldn't pull the trigger at the last moment and went for the DTS North American release for $94.00 at Amazon. damn economy.

For the record, I ordered the first two sets at HMV Japan and there were no hiccups once the sets finally shipped. The second set did see a shipping price jump just before they sent it to me in NYC.

I don't really want to jump into the Amazon war but perhaps the multiple labels involved have given Amazon faulty descriptions of the product to begin with. I harbor a bigger grunge with Rhino who went out of the way to create another set sans SACD and otherwise identical (down to the liner notes) to the product available in Japan and perfectly suitable for distribution in the USA.


Greg

 

[Bob Squires Jr]

Boy! You got a deal if it is SACD. HMV Japan lists it at Y20,403 which converts it to $210 USD + $25 shipping. They sent me an email that stated my pre-order was ready to ship but they needed me to confirm the increased shipping price. I couldn't pull the trigger at the last moment and went for the DTS North American release for $94.00 at Amazon. damn economy.

For the record, I ordered the first two sets at HMV Japan and there were no hiccups once the sets finally shipped. The second set did see a shipping price jump just before they sent it to me in NYC.

I don't really want to jump into the Amazon war but perhaps the multiple labels involved have given Amazon faulty descriptions of the product to begin with. I harbor a bigger grunge with Rhino who went out of the way to create another set sans SACD and otherwise identical (down to the liner notes) to the product available in Japan and perfectly suitable for distribution in the USA.


Greg

I got my set today and yes, it IS SACD and DTS/NTSC DVD Multi. :banana:
My final bill was $170.00 with EMS shipping.
Now, on to listen....

It puzzles me as well... SACD/PAL, SACD/NTSC and CD/NTSC...
the CD/NTSC DVD set is pointless if there are SACD/NTSC DVD sets out there.

I followed Genesis up until "And Then There Were Three".
I was bigger on the Gabriel stuff more so than anything
and I do have "Trick", Wind & Wuthering" and "Three"
but they are SACD/PAL and most of my players balk at them.

Now i have to find and SACD/NTSC set.... oh well, back to Japan I guess!


-B

 

[peterzach]

I wish I could add in some insight on this boxset but sadly I'm still waiting for it as I ordered th sacd set from Amazon.ca and now postponed till Dec.23rd.
Someone on Amazon.com posted this:

I recently received an e-mail from EMI/Uk catalogue director Nigel Reeve, and he assured me that the UK export edition(SACD + DVD-NTSC) was released the same day as the UK domestic edition(SACD + DVD-PAL). The only dealer known to have actually supplied the UK export edition to anyone is a Japanese dealer www.hmv.co.jp

As the boxset is readily available and I did my preorder on Aug.18th which would have been plently of time to get it into my hands my question is can WB\Rhino have put a stop to any imports coming into North American sellers so that the domestic version is only one available. It sure seems like it as Amazon,Music Direct,Elusive disc and others) based in North America all say the boxset is delayed. If anyone else can shed some light on this it would be appreciated.
I know I could have ordered out of japan but even though I'm a big genesis fan, I am not going to pay over $200(Canadian dollar is sinking) for this set and then pay the extra duty\taxes that Canadian govt will charge me.

peter

 

[timbre4]

Seems more like a SNAFU than any overt action to keep the SACD import version out. Popular bands like Genesis have had competing versions of product since the vinyl days so I don't think Atlantic/Rhino is making any special efforts in this regard.

Heck, it's safe to wonder out loud if this will be the last time these releases will be made available through major labels.

 

[Bob Squires Jr]

Boy! You got a deal if it is SACD. HMV Japan lists it at Y20,403 which converts it to $210 USD + $25 shipping. They sent me an email that stated my pre-order was ready to ship but they needed me to confirm the increased shipping price. I couldn't pull the trigger at the last moment and went for the DTS North American release for $94.00 at Amazon. damn economy.

Greg

To further add, I do order a lot from HMV so I did get a 2000 Yen discount because of the points I accumulated.
But my pre-order price was about 17200 yen.
Maybe they raised it after release???? Did pre-orders get a discount??

Anyway, as I stated, it IS SACD and NTSC DVD-V with a 96/24 DTS track and your standard Dolby Digital track... no DVD-A.

So far it sounds pretty sweet!
My wife probably would have married Peter Gabriel if she had the chance so she's a real happy camper now as well!

 

[splinter7]

I got my set today and yes, it IS SACD and DTS/NTSC DVD Multi. :banana:
My final bill was $170.00 with EMS shipping.
Now, on to listen....

-B

Looks like you got the point offer discount of 20% due to your accumulated points.
I have only ordered the other 2 box sets from HMV and was about $100 away from getting the discount. damn economy again.
Greg

 

[splinter7]

Enough of bemoaning the prices and formats for me.

Put Trespass on for the first time last night. While I am not familiar with this album, it was a very enjoyable first listen.
I only became interested in music other than what was on the radio or what my sister and brother like about the time of Duke and my back catalogue progression only got me as far as ….And Then There Were Three. Strangely, I did however get heavily into Peter Gabriel’s entire solo catalog. Anyway…..

Disc: Trespass
Format: DTS 5.1
Sonics: Overall fantastic!
5.1 Mix: Very Discrete
Presentation: Some minor quibbles

Again, this is the first time I heard this album so I am not sure how to compare it to the original recording.
However, I was not expecting a 1970’s somewhat, debut album to sound so good. The instruments sound incredibly clear and tight. They could have been recorded today. The vocals though sound a bit thin and shrill. Maybe I would say “tinny”?

Looking for Someone and White Mountain keep the vocals mostly in the center channel. The keyboards and drums move back and forth across the soundfield. I kept the volume a little low as it was late but the guitars, bass, flute all sounded rich and the 5.1 mix gave them a sense of being just off the front speakers. My subwoofer seemed to be more active than on the other two box set discs but I have those on SACD not DTS?

The vocals started moving around a bit on either Visions or Stagnation to cool effect. A passage in the left, then right, then in the rears. There is also this cool drum section in one of these two songs where this subtle note hits in the different speakers. At first I thought it was my boiler making a pop while firing up. The Knife seemed to be the only song that really sounded kind of old. To me that had more to do with the music and the lyrics than production.

IMO: This is the best sounding and mixed disc so far out of the series. Perhaps I am not comparing apples to apples as this was DTS vs the SACDs of the other albums. I will have to go back and listen to the DTS mixes of the other albums to compare (I think I have those on my SACDs). The overall sound does not seem so compressed and aside from the “tinny” sound of the vocals, the dynamics are much richer and fuller sounding on Trespass. I would say if you are a fan of this music in the first place, you will be in for real treat. I can only hope the rest of this set sounds as good. Well, I guess I could hope that Peter gets enough good feed back that convinces him to go back to his catalog and give it this type of treatment.

As for my minor quibbles….
The DTS disc goes to the trouble of creating a separate graphic look for each song. The fade in between tracks is even well timed. And yet, no one could be bothered to have the lyrics accessible onscreen during the songs.

The CD booklet only has the lyrics and standard credits. The box set’s compilation booklet is pretty thin as well. The other two sets seemed to give way more background and history on the albums.

Finally, I have to agree that they should have used the prevailing logo from each era on the box sets.

Final Score: 9.5
Fantastic mix and fantastic overall sound. The songs themselves are probably too old for me to fall completely in love with but I definitely will revisit the disc every now and again.

Greg

 

[John Svensson]

Ah, you started at the beginning Greg.......I started at the Lamb and am working my way backwards. These are by far, better listening experiences than set 2 (can't speak for 3...didn't get any of those) and I have some DTS and some SACD amongst the set 2 crowd. The extra features are for me worth the price of admission...such as the Shepperton concert...fantastic, and the original tour set slide show that accompanies the Lamb songs. There was more back speaker discrete sounds in Epping Forest than on entire albums from the second set...well mixed for 5.1 in my opinion, though there might be quibbles, overall they could have been a little more adventurous on Selling England (my personal fave). Due to a little screw up with my local record retailer, a mis-quote, I even got a great price on the box since I'm one of his regulars he did not want to pull a "gotcha" on me, so it was $99 plus tax. Well worth the wait.....the DTS 96/24 sounds pretty good to my aging 48 year old ears. Gotta go slip out of fox head and dress now.
John S.