Genesis 1970-1975 Nov.10/11 2008

[peterzach]

Enough of bemoaning the prices and formats for me.

Final Score: 9.5
Fantastic mix and fantastic overall sound. The songs themselves are probably too old for me to fall completely in love with but I definitely will revisit the disc every now and again.

Greg

Greg, thanks for that info, sorry I guess I am one of those whining and complaining. This is good to hear just what you have reported on the one disc. From what I have read at other places rest of the abums sound well done as well. I might be changing my mind and pick up the Rhino dts only set.

peter

 

[splinter7]

Peter, I was pointing my comment on bemoaning at myself. Sorry if anyone took it to mean I was speaking of others.

Last night was Nursery Cryme’s turn. Another album I was unfamiliar with but my expectations were high after Trespass the night before.
It was a let down, sad to say, but just based on my appreciation of the songs.

Disc: Nursery Cryme
Format: DTS 5.1
Sonics: Very good but maybe a bit muddy?
5.1 Mix: Discrete
Presentation: Some minor quibbles

Things start off well with The Musical Box. Keyboards seemed be taking up time in the left speakers, cymbals discreetly in the right rear and guitars working all the speakers. My sub-woofer got a bit more of work out than with Trespass. I guess this song or Absent friends would be the high water mark of this album for me.

Overall the vocals are not as ‘tinny’ as I felt they were on Trespass. Unfortunately this time, they seem at times buried in the mix. This is most notable in The Fountain of Salmacis where there is a duel vocal passage between the narrator and the other voice. I thought the mix would have had each vocal part clearly separated into the left and right or one in front and one in the rears but it just sounded like a mumbled whisper. Harold the Barrel seemed to also suffer from a vocal mix that seemed to be fighting for space along side the music.

For Absent Friends sounds very good but I think the surround mix could have been stepped up a little. The most shocking thing to me was how apparent it is that Phil is singing. I always lead to believe that the band kind of just stumbled into having Phil take over after Peter left. Here he is on his first album, second song singing lead.

I just don’t get the Hogweed song. I like some of the musical passages, the steps into a jazz type sound but the lyrics and other ramblings are lost on me. The mix seems muddy with instruments every where, kind of confusing.

The low end rolls on Seven Stones is like movie soundtrack – subwoofer rolling cool but a bit jarring in volume as compared to the rest of the track.
Not as jarring as the passages on Gabriel’s Darkness from UP but similar in affect.

As with Trespass, I have quibbles with the onscreen graphics and lack of onscreen lyrics.

The 2007 Interview DVD feature was quite surprising. Almost to a man, each member either off-handily or directly dismisses John Mayhew’s drumming. Wow, how petty after 38 years and only a year or two into their collective professional lives. Well I for one think Trespass is a better album with better drumming. So stand tall John Mayhew, wherever you are.

In the DVD interview, Peter Gabriel comments on how the band was sometimes at odds with each other over the songs. Gabriel had the belief that the lyrics needed some emphasis and that they would loose some of the audience with an overdrawn keyboard solo. Banks on the other hand tells of a little piece of music that he was very keen on only to be disappointed when Gabriel started singing over top of it. Maybe that’s why I did not enjoy this album so much. IMO it seems to be a collection of fancy assembled parts without enough soul or life.

Final Score: 8
For those who like or love this album to begin with, I think the 5.1 mix will only increase your appreciation and is worth the purchase.
The mix seems a bit busy to me but perhaps that is due to the addition of Collins and Hackett and the intricacies they add to the overall sound.
It is the music itself that lowered the score here for me.

 

[timbre4]

Thanks for taking the time to post the album 5.1 reviews working forward. Gives me something to chew on whilst the SACD version's availability sorts ifself out.

Trespass is almost an island in the catalog; home to early ambitious numbers The Knife, Fountain Of Salmacis. Nursery Cryme is surely a step forward, if somewhat awkward in execution. New members who have to blend and get to their A-game as quickly as possible. The songs are disjointed but not yet in the way that worked best for them. All of the touring for this album would mold them and prepare them for the exponential growth that comes with their next album, the classic Foxtrot.

The caliber of composition on Foxtrot, Selling England By The Pound (what I 1st heard) and some of Lamb Lies Down On Broadway is so keen as to not be believed. IMHO anyway...

 

[Lucanu]

My very first full Genesis approach was with Nursery Cryme and I got a neverending fall in love with them.
Said that it's true you actually hear the potential of the new members there, lots of Steve Hackett work with tapping and solos and Phil Collins remarkable taste and voice too.

 

[John Svensson]

Yes, Steve's Hackett's string tapping technique is apparent on the concert videos. I never knew that was in his bag of tricks since it was a good 5-6 years pre-Eddie Van Halen. I always loved the sustain on Hackett's playing and his ability to make it grunt and sound like some sinuous woodwind instrument. Hope you like Foxtrot Splinter, Nursery Cryme has its moments amongst somewhat weaker songwriting but its tough to find a bad moment on the next one. John S.

 

[Lucanu]

yeah, except Time Table which has a more "Nursery Cryme" approach. Said that I couldn't expect to vote less than 10 for the whole boxset, I'm too fanatic here

 

[splinter7]

Foxtrot on Friday. Big step back in the right direction after Nursery Cryme.

Disc: Foxtrot
Format: DTS 5.1
Sonics: Excellent
5.1 Mix: Discrete but perhaps leaning to a more evolving sound. Like you are in the band.
Presentation: A new minor quibble but the inclusion of the promo pieces a big plus.

Watcher of the Skies starts off abruptly with the mellotron and organ parts spread throughout the soundfield. The cymbals and guitars roll in from the rears sounding like an sos signal. The cymbals and drums seem to stick in the back speakers for the rest of album. The lyrics are just as confounding as the last album but they seem to work better. A nice start.

Timbre noted that Nursery Cryme might have sounded somewhat awkward in execution but certainly Time Table shows they have got it together now. A bit stripped down compared to other songs on the album but the mix does a nice job of moving the vocals around a bit.

I thought that the vocal mix was lacking on the last album but Get 'Em Out By Friday makes it seem like my criticism was taken to heart. The different characters of this song occupy different speakers. Nice! The music is interesting and it seems that Phil is really driving the show.

Can-Utility and Supper's Ready ( I love the first passage of this one. "hey baby") both have interesting discrete mixes. Lots of things going on.

New minor quibble time. The screen slide for instrumental Horizons credits music and lyrics by Genesis. For a band that seems so wrapped up in itself in the DVD Interview, you think someone could paid attention to the smaller

While these 5.1 mixes are really giving me a greater appreciation for early Genesis music, the DVD Interviews just make the band seem like tossers taking it all far too serious. Tony especially.

Final Score: 9.5
I was able to give the stereo mix a quick listen and the 5.1 mix really lifts the music and gives it so much more depth and space. Nicely done.

Greg

 

[JohnA]

Here's my rating for the SACD surround versions

Tresspass: 8
Nursery Cryme: 6
Foxtrot: 7
Selling England: 9
Lamb: haven't listened yet to it

The reissue interviews I found all worth watching. They help explain what is behind the music.

The LFE channel doesn't sound very good on these versions. It was a bit better on 'trick of the tail'.
The whole surround experience is certainly not at 'Dark side of the moon' levels, but it is still quite good. These are 'must-buys' for Genesis fans.

 

[daved64]

Foxtrot on Friday. Big step back in the right direction after Nursery Cryme.

Disc: Foxtrot
Format: DTS 5.1
The cymbals and drums seem to stick in the back speakers for the rest of album.

Greg

Drums in the back, huh.....not a big fan of that. Occasionally, but not all the time.

 

[Bob Squires Jr]

WOW!
I feel blessed now...
I ordered, and got the SACD/DVD NTSC no region version from HMV
the first time.
A bit pricier, but worth it... it was an early C-Mas gift from me to me.
I'm just trying to keep my wife from hauling off with it.
If it makes it to her office (yes, she has an SACD player there!)
I'll never see it again and I'll be searching the big "A" for another.

I do have to agree with you all about Amazon...
It's like buying stuff from E-Bay... hit or miss unless you know the seller.

My Rolling Stones 3 disc set was adverted as SACD but
I got a plain DSD remaster and had to send it back... twice! :flame
(It doesn't say SACD on the package of the one that IS SACD! Go figure!)
I did eventually get the set I wanted, but what a pain!
And with 3 versions of the new Genesis box... it makes you wonder what
the hell you'll wind up with.

Good luck peoples!

-Bob

 

[JonUrban]

I am asking you to stop posting pictures please. This forum is about discussing multichannel music. It is not a Genesis fanboy site. Have some respect for those on dial up. You're making it hard to navigate the thread. Never mind the fact that some might want to see the pics for themselves when they get the set.

For those interested, I moved those large graphic "screen shot" posts to their own thread. That way they won't bog down this one.

Now, a question. Is there a definative place to get this SACD/NTSC DVD set on the web and be sure that's what you'll get? They make this crap so f-ing confusing, then bitch because no one is buying surround titles.

UGH!

 

[timbre4]

Don't think so, I've been checking every day for a source. Some still quote 12-23-08 and others say TBD. I expect another slip to occur...

Most retailers have no clue and most probably think the Rhino version of the box is the only one, so why bother to check out what imports are available? This is one of the most signifigant surround releases ever, which makes the SNAFU that much harder to bear.

 

[SoonerCaniac]

Now, a question. Is there a definitive place to get this SACD/NTSC DVD set on the web and be sure that's what you'll get? They make this crap so f-ing confusing, then bitch because no one is buying surround titles.

YES. . .HMV.co.jp. Without question. And, as of 11/29 at 7am EST, it's in stock.

 

[JonUrban]

YES. . .HMV.co.jp. Without question. And, as of 11/29 at 7am EST, it's in stock.

Thanks for the tip. I just ordered a box, it was just over $200, including shipping to the USA!

For anyone interested, here's the link:

http://www.hmv.co.jp/product/detail/2761040


My total including shipping was: $215.90 (¥20,631.00)


:banana:

 

[timbre4]

Very tempting, but I've spent elsewhere to make up for my sorrow.

If I don't see anything encouraging elsewhere in the next week, I'll likely follow suit.

I'm thinking the estimated delivery would take 5-7 days if it's like eBay CDs from US to Japan.

 

[elroy]

Is that "Silent Sorrow in Empty Boats"?

 

[sukothai]

Thanks for the tip. I just ordered a box, it was just over $200, including shipping to the USA!

Jon, Did you get an email today from HMV to notify this item is out of stock? I ordered mine earlier that morning for about the same price and they indicated it was in stock at the time. Here's the message I received this morning:

"We are writing to inform you that your Order is regrettably delayed due to items not received from the manufacturer."

They then go on to say they will try to get it for 2 weeks and then cancel the order. I'm not sure if I should cancel it now and look elsewhere, or keep it open and hope for the best.

 

[SoonerCaniac]

They then go on to say they will try to get it for 2 weeks and then cancel the order. I'm not sure if I should cancel it now and look elsewhere, or keep it open and hope for the best.

From experience, HMV.co.jp tries their level best to fulfill backordered items. They do not charge your credit card until shipment and you can cancel the order at any time. My opinion/recommendation is that if you are happy with the price and are patient, go ahead and ride it out. If they can get stock from Virgin, they will. If they continue to have difficulty fulfilling the order they will e-mail you and you will have the option to continue the order and wait or cancel. In the meantime, if you find another option (not many out there for the NTSC DVDs) you can cancel the HMV.co.jp order at that time.

Good Luck!
Josh

 

[JonUrban]

Jon, Did you get an email today from HMV to notify this item is out of stock? I ordered mine earlier that morning for about the same price and they indicated it was in stock at the time. Here's the message I received this morning:

"We are writing to inform you that your Order is regrettably delayed due to items not received from the manufacturer."

They then go on to say they will try to get it for 2 weeks and then cancel the order. I'm not sure if I should cancel it now and look elsewhere, or keep it open and hope for the best.

No. Not yet. If I do, I'll post about it here.

 

[sukothai]

I went to the HMV site to see if it was still listed and it is now listed as "For Order - 2-7 days" instead of "In Stock."

I logged in to double check the order and I'm pleasantly surprised to find "Genesis 1970-1975" "In Transit." All of the other items I ordered to get the "Multibuy" discount are delayed. So; it looks like I could be ok. There's hope. :banana: